Understanding the religious mindset

[Age]

Lacewing wrote:

Obviously it is difficult to describe concepts beyond human models. I do not believe human stories can encompass that which is beyond the human reality and its limitations of senses and understanding. Throughout nature, I see a kind of awareness and perfection that "knows what it's doing", as it explores, expands, perfects, and dances. It also appears to be connected, all throughout. I see no reason to think that there's a puppet-master for such a thing -- rather, the creative force drives itself from within.

The force is called entropy and it is the opposite of creative. Creation 'struggles' against entropy and will eventually lose the ' battle'.

Except in relation to the Universe, Itself. This is BECAUSE energy, itself, can NOT be created, NOR destroyed, so the Universe, Itself, is ALWAYS Creating, and so NEVER loses.

It would be nice if we could know that there was a huge Consciousness that loved us all while we lasted and will always remember us.

WHY would that be, so called, "nice"?

And, what evidence do you have that this is NOT what happens anyway?

Also, learn WHY 'you', human beings, were so 'self-centered' that 'you', individually, ACTUALLY WANTED to be REMEMBERED, ALWAYS, and then 'you' WILL be ABLE TO SEE, more clearly, what is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct.

[Age]

You described a pretty standard psychotic break, with flames and God talking and voices shouting etc. There are at least 4-5 users on this forum with various forms of psychosis.

Yes... and apparently most of them live off government systems of support, while proclaiming themselves and their self-glorified psychotic, idiotic, and/or drunken fogs uniquely and extraordinarily special, meaningful, and/or divine for humankind... on an online forum.

But, I guess, what else are they going to do to claim any kind of validity or credibility: just make up so much shit that they can thoroughly wrap themselves up in (and possibly associate it with a god, which is a common tactic), so that they never have to see or deal with all that is beyond their very small and self-serving cocoon.

PLEASE LIST THE 4-5 USERS on this forum you are comparing me to, as psychotic.

'i' would OBVIOUSLY be on that list, and probably the VERY FIRST ONE.

But lucky 'i' or 'we' are here, so then these "others" have SOME one to LAUGH AT and HUMILIATE, which, in turn, then makes "them" feel BETTER about "themselves".

...I will again reiterate what occurred to me in 2017, since as I stated to Atla - it was a cheap shot - out of context.

I have worked since before I left school, indeed my first job I was 13. I have paid taxes, worked 3 part time jobs to support myself while at college, and you have the gall to imply that I am living off of the government (a shower of overpaid politician morons that taxed me for all those years, and yes, I got some of my money back for a short period until - as you will see below - God\Sage put a shitload of money into my bank account).

How, EXACTLY, do gods/sages put ANY "loads of money" into bank accounts?

And, could people thinking or BELIEVING that God, gods, sage, or sages putting money into their OWN bank accounts be a SURE SIGN that 'one' ACTUALLY thinks or BELIEVES that 'it' is BETTER or MORE DESERVING of EVERY "other" one? Which is A PROOF of just how 'self-centered' 'you', human beings, ACTUALLY WERE, in the days when this was being written?

Also, 'trying to' relate MONEY, with God, only PROVES just how DELUSIONAL some human beings can become.

I just want to reiterate what I stated - that Atla blew out of context and you, LW, jumped at the chance to have another shallow dig.

If you ever have bothered to read some books written by physicists you might have at least a little bit of comprehension as to what is plausible about there being an intelligence behind the makeup of what we PERCEIVE as reality.
Maybe then, instead of throwing out nasty accusations, stating I am one of a 'very small self serving cocoons' and 'making up shit' - you just MIGHT be able to provide an actual argument that can counter what I have experienced since 1997. Indeed, you might actually be worthy of being part of a philosophy forum. - I bet you are a free-loader that doesn't even support the magazine!


Below is what Atla and you jumped in by simply claiming that it was all "pretty standard psychotic break, with flames and God talking and voices shouting etc.."
Far from it, the CONTEXT needs to be first examined:-


I have worked in IT since 1997. In 2017 I worked from a Jap company called NEC - doing support for government contracts.

In one particular week, this 'God' entity started making it clear to me, that it wanted me to continue with my ART project - indeed, it forced me out of work. By the Thursday - all the lettering on my screen started to scramble - and someone in the office would yell out "DO ART" - I called God and Christ every expletive under the sun - I told them under my breath to "FUCK OFF" - then someone across the office yelled out "FUCK OFF" back.
Then flames would shoot across my screen.
Now if you understand the slightest thing about physics and what is plausible in the realm of 'multiple dimensions' - then you would at least understand - and that in an office - nobody yells out loudly FUCK OFF. So I was the only one seeing and experiencing this.
At that point - plus the fact my boss was an incompetent twat - and the fact my house was fully paid off, I decided - fuck this. I told the boss I had a headache and left work. I went to my local doctor GP - and said I was suffering anxiety and needed a week off. - he obliged with a certificate.
I then wrote a letter to NEC to resign - (they required a weeks notice - so I never had to go back)

Eventually, I said to my sage\God (sage introduced himself to me in Nov 2005 - another long story) since they forced me out of work, I need income.

Two days later - a big wad of cash was deposited into my bank account with the title BT PORTFOLIO. (BT is my true initials DO_U_BT? - opposite to FAITH)

Now I was on what here is called Centrelink - claiming govt money - and they required me to keep applying for work otherwise those funds would be cut off. A friend of mine suggested I go see a psychiatrist since they can give 3 month certificates that would keep you from having to look for work.
SO I went to a government free psychiatrist. When I told him of my story since 1997, (ya know hearing a voice(s) seeing stuff out of the norm, and that of someone claiming to be a sage etc..) he said, so you don't think there is anything mentally wrong with you. I said absolutely, to which he replied - I need to put something down on this certificate - to which I replied, well then DEFINE schizophrenia - maybe it's God fucking with peoples lives - and he said, right then, so I'll put that down on the cert quizzing ME if I agreed - I said ya go for it.
But I did add, hang on - so for me to get Centrelink off my back to look for a job each week, I have to take these medications you prescribe - I can't just yack with a psychologist? - he said yeah - U gotta take the meds (LMFAO)

So I continued to paint - didn't have to get up for the morning commute in heavy boring traffic everyday to work some boring job working for morons. I bought a dog, we have nice walks everyday and I do my art, program my website (which is on hold atm), and am writing the sequel to Alpha Two (a cyberpunk novel)
God told me "you are in heaven" - ...who arts in heaven? atto!

So ya, if hearing the voice of God and someone who introduced himself to me in 2005 from aether as a sage, and me basically telling a shrink to write on a certificate that I am a schizo - renders me a schizo to you - the so be it - good luck with your short-sighted atheist stunted life.

Throughout nature, I see a kind of awareness and perfection that "knows what it's doing", as it explores, expands, perfects, and dances. It also appears to be connected, all throughout. I see no reason to think that there's a puppet-master for such a thing -- rather, the creative force drives itself from within.

"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction, and summed up quite eloquently in this quote of yours.

Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup - ya know - most call that God. - what indeed does a 'spritual atheist' such as yourself call it!!?

[Age]

SEEDS


A universal Creator

Is unknowable.

If such an idea was real and true, if it was known by sentient life known as human, then this universal creator would be able to recreate itself, which would imply two, the creator and created. Which is impossible for one very good reason, try splitting yourself in two, into subject and object.

Did the woman in the following image...



..."split herself in two"?

Or, did she participate in the most natural process in all of existence, wherein a particular species of being replicates ("recreates") itself by conceiving its offspring within itself?

Can you not see how this "natural and organic" process could apply to the highest species of being in all of reality?

"As above, so below." Or, better yet: "As below, so above."

All I am suggesting is that the ultimate truth of reality (and of our ultimate destiny) is much more, again, "NATURAL and ORGANIC" than most of us realize.
_______

Is there ANY one who could even explain how ANY of the Universe/ALL-THIS-IS is NOT NATURAL in ANY way?

If yes, then PLEASE PROCEED.

In fact there is NOT even A 'thing' that is even implied to be NOT NATURAL or OUTSIDE of Life, the Universe, or Existence, Itself.

[Age]

Throughout nature, I see a kind of awareness and perfection that "knows what it's doing", as it explores, expands, perfects, and dances. It also appears to be connected, all throughout. I see no reason to think that there's a puppet-master for such a thing -- rather, the creative force drives itself from within.

"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction

The contradiction you see is due to your limited thinking, demonstrated here by the definition you've come up with.

Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup

The intelligence is within, not behind.

All is one, there is no other. We could use the word 'god' for that, but most people use that word to describe something that is other and behind.

WHO uses the 'God' word as some 'thing' that is other and/or behind?

Let "them" speak for "themselves" and let 'us' SEE those words, for "ourselves".

The illusion of separateness fuels stories.

The REASON WHY this happens is just BECAUSE of the way the ALWAYS EVOLVING human brain works. The human brain has to separate thee One and ONLY 'Thing', into PERCEIVED "separate" things. It HAS TO DO this in order to be able to LOOK AT ALL-THERE-IS FULLY, and thus, in order, to be ABLE to SEE, WORK OUT, and UNDERSTAND, ALL-THERE-IS.

Some people go insane with that -- perhaps understandably so, if they are ripping themselves apart from all that they are naturally/innately part of.

WHY do you appear to be FIXATED on "others" and their PSYCHOTICS. A PROJECTION?

Considering the vast diversity of human thought, might it be that we humans (each and collectively) see whatever we put our minds to -- and although the vast potential of that can seem magnificent, there is nothing that is particularly profound or complicated?

ANY thing is POSSIBLE with the THINKING of 'you', human beings.

However, to just CORRECT one thing here:
'you', human beings, do NOT have "your minds", which 'you' could, supposedly, "put" anywhere, from which to "see whatever" from. The REASON WHY 'you' SEE that are NOT REAL NOR True is because of just THOUGHTS and THINKING, itself.

Also, there is absolutely NOTHING complicated NOR hard AT ALL, especially in regards to the Universe and to Life, Itself.

Can we be at peace with that -- or must we keep turning it into things that make us crazy?

'We' can be and ARE ALREADY, AT Peace.

'you', however, do keep turning 'It' into, PERCEIVED 'separated things', which is what is making 'you' crazy, and which is what is helping 'you' to continually SEE 'craziness' in "others", as well.

[Age]

Is unknowable.

If such an idea was real and true, if it was known by sentient life known as human, then this universal creator would be able to recreate itself, which would imply two, the creator and created. Which is impossible for one very good reason, try splitting yourself in two, into subject and object.

Did the woman in the following image...



..."split herself in two"?

Or, did she participate in the most natural process in all of existence, wherein a particular species of being replicates ("recreates") itself by conceiving its offspring within itself?

Can you not see how this "natural and organic" process could apply to the highest species of being in all of reality?

"As above, so below." Or, better yet: "As below, so above."

All I am suggesting is that the ultimate truth of reality (and of our ultimate destiny) is much more, again, "NATURAL and ORGANIC" than most of us realize.
_______

My point is….. there is no thing replicating itself.

OF COURSE NOT. This, by definition, would be an IMPOSSIBILITY.

ALSO, this could NOT happen in regards to thee Universe, which IS CREATING, Itself, because thee Universe is INFINITE and ETERNAL, so there is NO OTHER PLACE NOR ANY OTHER TIME where It EVEN COULD "replicate Itself".

What conceived the very first woman who was then able to conceive or replicate herself?

What conceived the very first woman were the two things that CAME TOGETHER.

Can you see how the idea of the many of the one is just an illusion.

OF COURSE the IDEA that there is AN ACTUAL 'thing', which could ACTUALLY separate thee One physically, somehow, is just NOT POSSIBLE and as such is just AN ILLUSION.

However, you can NOT refute that human beings do MAKE 'separation' through thought ONLY. And, that they have NEEDED to do this in order to make sense of, and UNDERSTAND, thee Universe (or 'world') in which they have found themselves existing in.

Reality or the sense of being is without doubt or error, but it’s original conception is unknowable, it’s simply incomprehensible.

LOL Now here is a True ILLUSION.

'you', "dontaskme", are doing the EXACT SAME thing 'you' ACCUSE "others" of doing. That is; what "they" SEE and BELIEVE is true is JUST AN ILLUSION, which is ALL just being based on and off the THOUGHTS and THINKING, within.

Within that body there are the THOUGHTS and THINKING that some things are UNKNOWABLE, like the OLD who and what God IS, IS UNKNOWABLE. And so now 'you' BELIEVE this is ABSOLUTELY and IRREFUTABLY True.

Thee ORIGINAL CONCEPTION is KNOWABLE, AND, IS ALREADY KNOWN.

The illusion of otherness is nothing more than an image of the imageless.

.

The illusion of 'otherness' is just the result of a NORMAL human brain, just TRYING TO WORK OUT and UNDERSTAND the Life and EXISTENCE, which it has found itself WITHIN.

[Age]

You described a pretty standard psychotic break, with flames and God talking and voices shouting etc. There are at least 4-5 users on this forum with various forms of psychosis.

Yes... and apparently most of them live off government systems of support, while proclaiming themselves and their self-glorified psychotic, idiotic, and/or drunken fogs uniquely and extraordinarily special, meaningful, and/or divine for humankind... on an online forum.

But, I guess, what else are they going to do to claim any kind of validity or credibility: just make up so much shit that they can thoroughly wrap themselves up in (and possibly associate it with a god, which is a common tactic), so that they never have to see or deal with all that is beyond their very small and self-serving cocoon.

Well psychosis isn't really a choice, it usually just happens and it's quite unstoppable.

Theists in general however, even on this forum: what I find funny about them is that they have so wildly different ideas about their Gods, that they hardly could agree on anything in a hundred years. But this somehow never seems to bother them.

The REASON WHY "theists" are NOT IN AGREEMENT is for the SAME REASON "atheists" are NOT IN AGREEMENT, which is the EXACT SAME REASON WHY ALL human beings who are labeled with ANY 'ist' are NOT IN AGREEMENT. This is because what 'you' and "they" BELIEVE IS TRUE is ACTUALLY NOT TRUE.

If what ANY one of 'you' BELIEVES IS TRUE was ACTUALLY TRUE, then 'you' could just formulate a sound AND valid argument, which OBVIOUSLY could NOT be refuted, and then 'you' could just PROVIDE that 'argument' for the REST of 'us' to LOOK AT and Discuss.

[Age]

Theists in general however, even on this forum: what I find funny about them is that they have so wildly different ideas about their Gods, that they hardly could agree on anything in a hundred years. But this somehow never seems to bother them.

Yes! They are unbothered by so many contradictions... and have no desire to explore truth of philosophy.

And what, do 'you', "lacewing", REALLY have a desire to explore, so called, "truth of philosophy"?

If so, then let 'your behaviors' SPEAK LOUDER than 'your words'.

The desire I observe, constantly, is if ANY has ANOTHER 'truth', which is DIFFERENT than 'your truth', then those ones fall into being the "insane" and "crazy" ones, to you.

Rather, philosophy (here on the forum) is often about making unprovable claims and insisting they're valid until anyone can disprove them.

And, this is CONTINUALLY being PROVEN True, by 'you'.

Name just ONE 'truth of philosophy', which you would like to explore into, and let us SEE what then ACTUALLY evolves.

[Age]

"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction

Nah, lace ain't an atheist, she's a monist...

Monism is the philosophy that asserts oneness as its fundamental premise, and it contradicts the dualism-based theistic premise that there is a creator God that is eternal and separate from the rest of existence. There are two types of monism, namely spiritual monism which holds that all spiritual reality is one, and material monism which holds that everything including all material reality is one and the same thing.

...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity

And that, seeds, is the point.

WHERE did this idea/notion that thee Creator God is separate from the rest of Existence?

And, when you say and claim that, " 'material monism' holds that "everything" including all material reality is one and the same thing ", would the "including all material" part, just be redundant anyway with, and by, the words "material monism"?

Now, if, to you,"spiritual monism" holds that all 'spiritual reality' is one, then it would just go without saying that "material monism" would then just hold that all "material reality" is one. But, WHY does "material monism, to 'you', "henry quirk", supposedly also HOLD 'all spiritual reality' as well?

That is what you are 'trying to' say and are alluding to here, correct?

Also, that "athiests" see a 'world' of material ONLY, and that they do NOT see 'anything spiritual' is what I think "attofishpi" has been 'trying to' say. Although it is NOT correct, and what "attofishpi" would be much better of saying is, "Of those who only SEE or BELIEVE that there is ONLY physical matter and NO spiritual context to the "world"/Universe, then ....".

Because OBVIOUSLY one who BELIEVES God does NOT EXIST, in other words, an "athiest" does NOT necessarily ALSO BELIEVE that there is NO 'spiritual matter' AT ALL to thee Universe, Itself.

[Age]

"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction

Nah, lace ain't an atheist, she's a monist...

Monism is the philosophy that asserts oneness as its fundamental premise, and it contradicts the dualism-based theistic premise that there is a creator God that is eternal and separate from the rest of existence. There are two types of monism, namely spiritual monism which holds that all spiritual reality is one, and material monism which holds that everything including all material reality is one and the same thing.

...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity

And that, seeds, is the point.

WHERE did this idea/notion that thee Creator God is separate from the rest of Existence?

And, when you say and claim that, " 'material monism' holds that "everything" including all material reality is one and the same thing ", would the "including all material" part, just be redundant anyway with, and by, the words "material monism"?

Now, if, to you,"spiritual monism" holds that all 'spiritual reality' is one, then it would just go without saying that "material monism" would then just hold that all "material reality" is one. But, WHY does "material monism, to 'you', "henry quirk", supposedly also HOLD 'all spiritual reality' as well?

That is what you are 'trying to' say and are alluding to here, correct?

I can agree with and accept that 'monism', itself, holds EVERY thing together as One Everything, but, by definition, 'material monism' implies that there is NO spiritual, matter.

Also, that "athiests" see a 'world' of material ONLY, and that they do NOT see 'anything spiritual' is what I think "attofishpi" has been 'trying to' say. Although it is NOT correct, and what "attofishpi" would be much better of saying is, "Of those who only SEE or BELIEVE that there is ONLY physical matter and NO spiritual context to the "world"/Universe, then ....".

Because OBVIOUSLY one who BELIEVES God does NOT EXIST, in other words, an "athiest", does NOT necessarily ALSO BELIEVE that there is NO 'spiritual matter' AT ALL in nor to thee Universe, Itself.

But as, "attofishpi", 'tries to' fit or squeeze particular people into one hole, or group, then that OBVIOUSLY does NOT WORK. And, coversely, 'trying to' CLAIM that "theists" view and see things the same, then that will ALSO NOT WORK.

This happening BOTH WAYS can be CLEARLY SEEN in the words, of 'one':

Well psychosis isn't really a choice, it usually just happens and it's quite unstoppable.

Theists in general however, even on this forum: what I find funny about them is that they have so wildly different ideas about their Gods, that they hardly could agree on anything in a hundred years. But this somehow never seems to bother them.

Which was AGREED UPON in the words, by "another":

Yes! They are unbothered by so many contradictions...

Which can be CLEARLY SEEN is these people were 'trying to' fit and squeeze particular people into one hole, or group, which although ALSO OBVIOUSLY does NOT WORK, but is the EXACT SAME thinking and behavior of the "other" human being.

That is; ALL of these adult human beings, in the days when this was written, were ALL 'trying to' squeeze and fit "themselves" into SEPARATE groups, as in what we referred to as 'pigeon holing'.

The "us AND them", and the, "we AND they", which can be VERY CLEARLY OBSERVED and SEEN here, IS WHY ALL of those human beings could NOT and DID NOT come together Peacefully AND Harmoniously, in those days.

[Age]

Monism is the philosophy that asserts oneness as its fundamental premise, and it contradicts the dualism-based theistic premise that there is a creator God that is eternal and separate from the rest of existence. There are two types of monism, namely spiritual monism which holds that all spiritual reality is one, and material monism which holds that everything including all material reality is one and the same thing.

That's interesting.

It inspires me to ask: Is there anything other than ego that claims separateness?

Maybe not. But the 'ego' IS 'thought', itself, or EXISTS ONLY within human 'thinking', itself.

And, the ONLY 'thing', which CLAIMS separateness is 'you', human beings. Examples of this are:

When one human beings calls "another" human being, an "idiot", a "retard", "crazy", or "insane" while all along BELIEVING that "they" are NOT.

Or, when calling the "other", a "theist", an "atheist", a "monist", or ANY other of the other nearly countless NAMES and LABELS 'you' so on "each other", or in other words, use on "your-OWN-selves".

TRYING TO separate 'human beings' into DIFFERENT groups, and CLAIM that those "groups" actually exist is the work of the human 'ego', itself. But, TRYING TO do this in order to make out that "one group" is BETTER, or WORSE, than "another group" IS, Truly VERY 'egotistical' of 'you', ALL.

[Age]

I would like to point out, you asked me the following...

Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup

I responded to your request, suggesting that the intelligence is within, not behind. That there is nothing separate. That all that we experience and are part of is that awareness. And we can call that 'god' if we want (although that word has been used extensively for other meanings/ideas).

This was a perfectly reasonable response that I offered... but you immediately claimed it was utter nonsense. So, is there any alternative view of 'god' (from your own) that isn't nonsense? Why did you ask the question if you were simply going to be a closed-minded dick about the answer?

..you appear to be lost in the semantics - I state - an intelligence behind the makeup of the natural universe. You appear to be insisting, that there is an intelligence WITHIN (the natural universe) - same difference.

BUT, 'you' can SEE how VERY EASILY and VERY SIMPLY the MISTAKE could be, and was, MADE, correct?

This applies to ALL, and NOT ANY one, in particular.

When I state 'behind' I am insinuating that below the planck scale, indeed at THE most finite point of infintesimally small that we, within out reality can detect/perceive, is an intelligence.

And, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here is JUST IF the "other" had asked a CLARIFYING QUESTION FIRST, INSTEAD of JUMPING TO an ASSUMPTION, which was based off of their OWN Past Experiences, then ALL of this could have been SORTED OUT and SETTLED a VERY LONG TIME AGO.

And, what can ALSO BE CLEARLY SEEN here IS: That BOTH of these people appear to be TALKING about, and SAYING, the EXACT SAME thing, but just with DIFFERENT WORDS, which would have OBVIOUSLY and NATURALLY just came from BOTH having DIFFERENT PAST EXPERIENCES.

WITHIN as you state (is what I am stating by way of what I have just implied.) Yes, it is within - ALL 'matter' - including that which apparently permits our own consciousness.

So if I may ask, what do you think of the concepts of Pantheism or Panentheism?

I'm really not interested in talking to you.

Clearly U R.

A LOT OF THE TIME adult human beings, in those days, were REALLY NOT interested AT ALL in LISTENING TO nor HEARING the "other's" VIEWPOINTS, if those 'points of views' SEEMED to be OPPOSING one's OWN. However, what can be CLEARLY SEEN also is that those same adult human beings were REALLY interested in talking TO the "other", in the HOPE that the "other" would UNDERSTAND, AGREE WITH, and ACCEPT their OWN 'viewpoints'.

But can ALSO be CLEARLY SEEN is that talking TO "another" does NOT WORK, and, IF they had just learned to talk WITH "each other" INSTEAD, then the Truly Peaceful and Harmonious life, which ALL of 'us' are now enjoying could have started AND began a LOT EARLIER.

But 'we' do ALREADY KNOW WHY they learned 'what they did', and had NOT YET learned 'what is ACTUALLY GOOD, and Right'.

[Age]

Theists in general however, even on this forum: what I find funny about them is that they have so wildly different ideas about their Gods, that they hardly could agree on anything in a hundred years. But this somehow never seems to bother them.

Yes! They are unbothered by so many contradictions... and have no desire to explore truth of philosophy. Rather, philosophy (here on the forum) is often about making unprovable claims and insisting they're valid until anyone can disprove them.

I mean, some here think that God is a really nasty 3rd party intelligence, some think that we are nested in some kind of Berkeleyen type God and holograms and all, some here are desperately trying (and failing) to teach humans how to collectively channel the awakening universe-God, some here are tryin to prove some kind of geometrical-observational-thing-nothing God or whatever the fuck, some here are textbook Christians, some here are light workers sent by God. Oh yeah and there's that painfully dry sociopath-"Christian" who is betting on the existence of heaven, and is trying to manipulate God (heh-heh) into putting him into heaven after he dies. etc. etc. there's also that guy who talks to angels and demons, and experiences God too etc.

Or something like that. I mean, how on Earth are these theists going to work out, which one of them has it right?

AND, there are 'those' who just BELIEVE OUTRIGHT that God does NOT exist. The DISBELIEVERS as they can also be LABELED and KNOWN BY. YET these ones can NOT and will NOT say what the word 'God' means or even refers to, so as to then EXPLAIN HOW and WHY that 'Thing' could NOT and does NOT POSSIBLY exist.

AND, then there are 'those' who SEE and BELIEVE OTHER 'things', and then there are 'those' who SEE and BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE other things, and then there are MORE of 'those' who SEE and BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE even MORE OTHER things.

Yet what can be CLEARLY SEEN, EVIDENCED, and ACTUALLY PROVEN True here is that ALL of 'these', human beings, are BELIEVING and/or DISBELIEVING in some thing or other. Which is what human beings have done hitherto, to the days when this was written, which is the VERY REASON WHY, human beings, took SO LONG to be ABLE to UNCOVER, RECOGNIZE, and SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth of things ACTUALLY IS.

[attofishpi]

"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction

The contradiction you see is due to your limited thinking, demonstrated here by the definition you've come up with.

Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup

The intelligence is within, not behind.

All is one, there is no other. We could use the word 'god' for that, but most people use that word to describe something that is other and behind.

WHO uses the 'God' word as some 'thing' that is other and/or behind?

Let "them" speak for "themselves" and let 'us' SEE those words, for "ourselves".

The illusion of separateness fuels stories.

The REASON WHY this happens is just BECAUSE of the way the ALWAYS EVOLVING human brain works. The human brain has to separate thee One and ONLY 'Thing', into PERCEIVED "separate" things. It HAS TO DO this in order to be able to LOOK AT ALL-THERE-IS FULLY, and thus, in order, to be ABLE to SEE, WORK OUT, and UNDERSTAND, ALL-THERE-IS.

Some people go insane with that -- perhaps understandably so, if they are ripping themselves apart from all that they are naturally/innately part of.

WHY do you appear to be FIXATED on "others" and their PSYCHOTICS. A PROJECTION?

Considering the vast diversity of human thought, might it be that we humans (each and collectively) see whatever we put our minds to -- and although the vast potential of that can seem magnificent, there is nothing that is particularly profound or complicated?

ANY thing is POSSIBLE with the THINKING of 'you', human beings.

However, to just CORRECT one thing here:
'you', human beings, do NOT have "your minds", which 'you' could, supposedly, "put" anywhere, from which to "see whatever" from. The REASON WHY 'you' SEE that are NOT REAL NOR True is because of just THOUGHTS and THINKING, itself.

Also, there is absolutely NOTHING complicated NOR hard AT ALL, especially in regards to the Universe and to Life, Itself.

Can we be at peace with that -- or must we keep turning it into things that make us crazy?

'We' can be and ARE ALREADY, AT Peace.

'you', however, do keep turning 'It' into, PERCEIVED 'separated things', which is what is making 'you' crazy, and which is what is helping 'you' to continually SEE 'craziness' in "others", as well.

LISTEN AGE.

1. You may have noticed I DO NOT bother discussing with you - you are one of the nutjob 'theists' that arrogantly talk down to others, and usually are talking or asking SHIT. - you are one of the ones that do a disservice to other theists here.

2. ALL OF THE ABOVE QUOTES (apart from 1st) WERE LACEWINGs STATEMENTS - NOT attofishpi - I wouldn't talk such spiritual drivel.

[Age]

Yes! They are unbothered by so many contradictions... and have no desire to explore truth of philosophy. Rather, philosophy (here on the forum) is often about making unprovable claims and insisting they're valid until anyone can disprove them.

I mean, some here think that God is a really nasty 3rd party intelligence, some think that we are nested in some kind of Berkeleyen type God and holograms and all, some here are desperately trying (and failing) to teach humans how to collectively channel the awakening universe-God, some here are tryin to prove some kind of geometrical-observational-thing-nothing God or whatever the fuck, some here are textbook Christians, some here are light workers sent by God. Oh yeah and there's that painfully dry sociopath-"Christian" who is betting on the existence of heaven, and is trying to manipulate God (heh-heh) into putting him into heaven after he dies. etc. etc. there's also that guy who talks to angels and demons, and experiences God too etc.

Or something like that. I mean, how on Earth are these theists going to work out, which one of them has it right?

Really? - you've been paying far more attention to these theists than I have. Why not list and associate the who's who of your above statement.

The fact you clearly have experienced sweet f'all from this God\'God' entity seems to you, in your mind, to elevate you to some self belief that somehow, you are more rational than any of these theists. If that's your belief, then good for you.

Just at least don't be a coward, and at least list these individuals and their beliefs (according to you and your such in depth study).

To "atla", ANY one who does NOT have and HOLD 'its' OWN "mindset", as it is WRONGLY CALLED, is just an INSANE RETARD who is also an IDIOT, (and whatever other degrading name and label 'it' can think of at the time).

What "atla" REALLY DESPISES is that 'it' went LOOKING FOR some 'thing', with the HOPE of FINDING that 'thing', which 'they' OBVIOUSLY did NOT. And, BECAUSE 'they' could NOT FIND that 'thing' 'it' now WHOLEHEARTEDLY BELIEVES that 'it' does NOT EXIST, AT ALL.

[Age]

I mean, some here think that God is a really nasty 3rd party intelligence, some think that we are nested in some kind of Berkeleyen type God and holograms and all, some here are desperately trying (and failing) to teach humans how to collectively channel the awakening universe-God, some here are tryin to prove some kind of geometrical-observational-thing-nothing God or whatever the fuck, some here are textbook Christians, some here are light workers sent by God. Oh yeah and there's that painfully dry sociopath-"Christian" who is betting on the existence of heaven, and is trying to manipulate God (heh-heh) into putting him into heaven after he dies. etc. etc. there's also that guy who talks to angels and demons, and experiences God too etc.

Or something like that. I mean, how on Earth are these theists going to work out, which one of them has it right?

damn, I left out the guy who achieved gnosis via the third, vertical dimension of being..

Hey, and don't forget the guy whose ego is so huge that he needs a wheelbarrow to help carry around the overflow.

I'm talking about the person who wrote this:

I have long suspected that I'm the only person left on this forum who is both intelligent and has a clue, but now I'm finally completely certain of it. This isn't even funny anymore so I'm off, I'm just making a fool of myself by being here.

Like I said the last time I pointed this out to you, you definitely got the bolded part right.
_______

One could imagine that if one had as MUCH 'intelligence', and as MUCH OF A 'clue', as what one obviously BELIEVES and CLAIMS that they HAVE, then in the VERY NEXT sentence they would NOT CLEARLY WRITE and STATE, and part of in bold: " I'm just making a fool of myself by being here. "

AND THEN, ACTUALLY STAY HERE.