Understanding the religious mindset

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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attofishpi
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:08 am
Atla to attofishpi wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:09 pm You described a pretty standard psychotic break, with flames and God talking and voices shouting etc. There are at least 4-5 users on this forum with various forms of psychosis.
Yes... and apparently most of them live off government systems of support, while proclaiming themselves and their self-glorified psychotic, idiotic, and/or drunken fogs uniquely and extraordinarily special, meaningful, and/or divine for humankind... on an online forum. :lol:

But, I guess, what else are they going to do to claim any kind of validity or credibility: just make up so much shit that they can thoroughly wrap themselves up in (and possibly associate it with a god, which is a common tactic), so that they never have to see or deal with all that is beyond their very small and self-serving cocoon.
PLEASE LIST THE 4-5 USERS on this forum you are comparing me to, as psychotic. 8)


...I will again reiterate what occurred to me in 2017, since as I stated to Atla - it was a cheap shot - out of context.

I have worked since before I left school, indeed my first job I was 13. I have paid taxes, worked 3 part time jobs to support myself while at college, and you have the gall to imply that I am living off of the government (a shower of overpaid politician morons that taxed me for all those years, and yes, I got some of my money back for a short period until - as you will see below - God\Sage put a shitload of money into my bank account).

I just want to reiterate what I stated - that Atla blew out of context and you, LW, jumped at the chance to have another shallow dig.

If you ever have bothered to read some books written by physicists you might have at least a little bit of comprehension as to what is plausible about there being an intelligence behind the makeup of what we PERCEIVE as reality.
Maybe then, instead of throwing out nasty accusations, stating I am one of a 'very small self serving cocoons' and 'making up shit' - you just MIGHT be able to provide an actual argument that can counter what I have experienced since 1997. Indeed, you might actually be worthy of being part of a philosophy forum. - I bet you are a free-loader that doesn't even support the magazine!



Below is what Atla and you jumped in by simply claiming that it was all "pretty standard psychotic break, with flames and God talking and voices shouting etc.."
Far from it, the CONTEXT needs to be first examined:-


I have worked in IT since 1997. In 2017 I worked from a Jap company called NEC - doing support for government contracts.

In one particular week, this 'God' entity started making it clear to me, that it wanted me to continue with my ART project - indeed, it forced me out of work. By the Thursday - all the lettering on my screen started to scramble - and someone in the office would yell out "DO ART" - I called God and Christ every expletive under the sun - I told them under my breath to "FUCK OFF" - then someone across the office yelled out "FUCK OFF" back.
Then flames would shoot across my screen.
Now if you understand the slightest thing about physics and what is plausible in the realm of 'multiple dimensions' - then you would at least understand - and that in an office - nobody yells out loudly FUCK OFF. So I was the only one seeing and experiencing this.
At that point - plus the fact my boss was an incompetent twat - and the fact my house was fully paid off, I decided - fuck this. I told the boss I had a headache and left work. I went to my local doctor GP - and said I was suffering anxiety and needed a week off. - he obliged with a certificate.
I then wrote a letter to NEC to resign - (they required a weeks notice - so I never had to go back)

Eventually, I said to my sage\God (sage introduced himself to me in Nov 2005 - another long story) since they forced me out of work, I need income.

Two days later - a big wad of cash was deposited into my bank account with the title BT PORTFOLIO. (BT is my true initials DO_U_BT? - opposite to FAITH)

Now I was on what here is called Centrelink - claiming govt money - and they required me to keep applying for work otherwise those funds would be cut off. A friend of mine suggested I go see a psychiatrist since they can give 3 month certificates that would keep you from having to look for work.
SO I went to a government free psychiatrist. When I told him of my story since 1997, (ya know hearing a voice(s) seeing stuff out of the norm, and that of someone claiming to be a sage etc..) he said, so you don't think there is anything mentally wrong with you. I said absolutely, to which he replied - I need to put something down on this certificate - to which I replied, well then DEFINE schizophrenia - maybe it's God fucking with peoples lives - and he said, right then, so I'll put that down on the cert quizzing ME if I agreed - I said ya go for it.
But I did add, hang on - so for me to get Centrelink off my back to look for a job each week, I have to take these medications you prescribe - I can't just yack with a psychologist? - he said yeah - U gotta take the meds (LMFAO)

So I continued to paint - didn't have to get up for the morning commute in heavy boring traffic everyday to work some boring job working for morons. I bought a dog, we have nice walks everyday and I do my art, program my website (which is on hold atm), and am writing the sequel to Alpha Two (a cyberpunk novel)
God told me "you are in heaven" - ...who arts in heaven? atto!

So ya, if hearing the voice of God and someone who introduced himself to me in 2005 from aether as a sage, and me basically telling a shrink to write on a certificate that I am a schizo - renders me a schizo to you - the so be it - good luck with your short-sighted atheist stunted life.


Lacewing wrote: Throughout nature, I see a kind of awareness and perfection that "knows what it's doing", as it explores, expands, perfects, and dances. It also appears to be connected, all throughout. I see no reason to think that there's a puppet-master for such a thing -- rather, the creative force drives itself from within.
"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction, and summed up quite eloquently in this quote of yours.

Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup - ya know - most call that God. - what indeed does a 'spritual atheist' such as yourself call it!!?
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by seeds »

Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:14 am
SEEDS


A universal Creator
Is unknowable.

If such an idea was real and true, if it was known by sentient life known as human, then this universal creator would be able to recreate itself, which would imply two, the creator and created. Which is impossible for one very good reason, try splitting yourself in two, into subject and object.
Did the woman in the following image...

Image

..."split herself in two"?

Or, did she participate in the most natural process in all of existence, wherein a particular species of being replicates ("recreates") itself by conceiving its offspring within itself?

Can you not see how this "natural and organic" process could apply to the highest species of being in all of reality?

"As above, so below." Or, better yet: "As below, so above."

All I am suggesting is that the ultimate truth of reality (and of our ultimate destiny) is much more, again, "NATURAL and ORGANIC" than most of us realize.
_______
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:54 pm
Lacewing wrote: Throughout nature, I see a kind of awareness and perfection that "knows what it's doing", as it explores, expands, perfects, and dances. It also appears to be connected, all throughout. I see no reason to think that there's a puppet-master for such a thing -- rather, the creative force drives itself from within.
"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction
The contradiction you see is due to your limited thinking, demonstrated here by the definition you've come up with.
attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:54 pm Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup
The intelligence is within, not behind.

All is one, there is no other. We could use the word 'god' for that, but most people use that word to describe something that is other and behind. The illusion of separateness fuels stories. Some people go insane with that -- perhaps understandably so, if they are ripping themselves apart from all that they are naturally/innately part of.

Considering the vast diversity of human thought, might it be that we humans (each and collectively) see whatever we put our minds to -- and although the vast potential of that can seem magnificent, there is nothing that is particularly profound or complicated? Can we be at peace with that -- or must we keep turning it into things that make us crazy? :)
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Sculptor »

seeds wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:14 am
SEEDS


A universal Creator
Is unknowable.

If such an idea was real and true, if it was known by sentient life known as human, then this universal creator would be able to recreate itself, which would imply two, the creator and created. Which is impossible for one very good reason, try splitting yourself in two, into subject and object.
Did the woman in the following image...

Image

..."split herself in two"?

Or, did she participate in the most natural process in all of existence, wherein a particular species of being replicates ("recreates") itself by conceiving its offspring within itself?

Can you not see how this "natural and organic" process could apply to the highest species of being in all of reality?
Who Dat? :lol: :lol:
"As above, so below." Or, better yet: "As below, so above."
What goes up must come down. Many a muckle makes a mickle. a diamond is forever and a dog is a mans best friend.

All I am suggesting is that the ultimate truth of reality (and of our ultimate destiny) is much more, again, "NATURAL and ORGANIC" than most of us realize.
_______
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Atla »

Belinda wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:10 am Atla wrote:
Also, if you want to know, you probably see hidden messages in English words because in psychosis, mental content that should be separate, gets mixed together. The brain starts making connections between things that aren't actually connected. We start to see hidden patterns, hidden meanings everywhere, even where there are none.
Only when the subject is paranoid surely? Paranoid delusion means the subject thinks others intend harm. It is not paranoid to see connections between natural events where intentions don't apply.
Nono it can happen without paranoia too.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Dontaskme »

seeds wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:14 am
SEEDS


A universal Creator
Is unknowable.

If such an idea was real and true, if it was known by sentient life known as human, then this universal creator would be able to recreate itself, which would imply two, the creator and created. Which is impossible for one very good reason, try splitting yourself in two, into subject and object.
Did the woman in the following image...

Image

..."split herself in two"?

Or, did she participate in the most natural process in all of existence, wherein a particular species of being replicates ("recreates") itself by conceiving its offspring within itself?

Can you not see how this "natural and organic" process could apply to the highest species of being in all of reality?

"As above, so below." Or, better yet: "As below, so above."

All I am suggesting is that the ultimate truth of reality (and of our ultimate destiny) is much more, again, "NATURAL and ORGANIC" than most of us realize.
_______
My point is….. there is no thing replicating itself.

What conceived the very first woman who was then able to conceive or replicate herself?

Can you see how the idea of the many of the one is just an illusion.

Reality or the sense of being is without doubt or error, but it’s original conception is unknowable, it’s simply incomprehensible.

The illusion of otherness is nothing more than an image of the imageless.

.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Atla »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:08 am
Atla to attofishpi wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:09 pm You described a pretty standard psychotic break, with flames and God talking and voices shouting etc. There are at least 4-5 users on this forum with various forms of psychosis.
Yes... and apparently most of them live off government systems of support, while proclaiming themselves and their self-glorified psychotic, idiotic, and/or drunken fogs uniquely and extraordinarily special, meaningful, and/or divine for humankind... on an online forum. :lol:

But, I guess, what else are they going to do to claim any kind of validity or credibility: just make up so much shit that they can thoroughly wrap themselves up in (and possibly associate it with a god, which is a common tactic), so that they never have to see or deal with all that is beyond their very small and self-serving cocoon.
Well psychosis isn't really a choice, it usually just happens and it's quite unstoppable.

Theists in general however, even on this forum: what I find funny about them is that they have so wildly different ideas about their Gods, that they hardly could agree on anything in a hundred years. But this somehow never seems to bother them. :)
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

Atla wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:35 pm in psychosis, mental content that should be separate, gets mixed together. The brain starts making connections between things that aren't actually connected. We start to see hidden patterns, hidden meanings everywhere, even where there are none.
Such as when one might mistake it as a message from god when other people scream "Fuck off" -- rather than accepting that those people really do want that person to fuck off and stop being such an insane idiot in their midst. :lol:
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Atla »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:05 pm
Atla wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:35 pm in psychosis, mental content that should be separate, gets mixed together. The brain starts making connections between things that aren't actually connected. We start to see hidden patterns, hidden meanings everywhere, even where there are none.
Such as when one might mistake it as a message from god when other people scream "Fuck off" -- rather than accepting that those people really do want that person to fuck off and stop being such an insane idiot in their midst. :lol:
Atto's "fuck off" might have been an auditory hallucination, where his colleagues might have screamed something similar, like "coffee". Letters rearranging themselves on a computer screen - classic visual hallucination.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

Atla wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:59 pm Theists in general however, even on this forum: what I find funny about them is that they have so wildly different ideas about their Gods, that they hardly could agree on anything in a hundred years. But this somehow never seems to bother them. :)
Yes! They are unbothered by so many contradictions... and have no desire to explore truth of philosophy. Rather, philosophy (here on the forum) is often about making unprovable claims and insisting they're valid until anyone can disprove them.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:08 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:54 pm
Lacewing wrote: Throughout nature, I see a kind of awareness and perfection that "knows what it's doing", as it explores, expands, perfects, and dances. It also appears to be connected, all throughout. I see no reason to think that there's a puppet-master for such a thing -- rather, the creative force drives itself from within.
"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction
The contradiction you see is due to your limited thinking, demonstrated here by the definition you've come up with.
No. The contradiction is blatantly obvious, you just lack the intelligence to understand it.


Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:08 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:54 pm Please explain how the natural universe can have an 'awareness, that KNOWS what it is doing"? - IF there is NOT an intelligence behind it's makeup
The intelligence is within, not behind.

All is one, there is no other. We could use the word 'god' for that, but most people use that word to describe something that is other and behind. The illusion of separateness fuels stories. Some people go insane with that -- perhaps understandably so, if they are ripping themselves apart from all that they are naturally/innately part of.

Considering the vast diversity of human thought, might it be that we humans (each and collectively) see whatever we put our minds to -- and although the vast potential of that can seem magnificent, there is nothing that is particularly profound or complicated? Can we be at peace with that -- or must we keep turning it into things that make us crazy? :)
Total Waffle.

Anyone want more spiritual waffle claptrap from Lacewing?

I assure you, these ones have more sustenance for thought.

Image
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:28 pm Total Waffle.
Coming from you... a devotee of delusion! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by attofishpi »

Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:32 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:28 pm Total Waffle.
Coming from you... a devotee of delusion! :lol: :lol: :lol:
..strange that you dispel me, as if I don't belong on a philosophy forum - yet all you can offer is waffle and, er, the sort of stuff that a school kid in a playground would do -

a lot of na na na naa na - you are deluded - na na naa naa ---and a whole load of these ---> :lol:

Pathetic.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by Lacewing »

attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:28 pm
Lacewing wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:08 pm
attofishpi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:54 pm
"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction
The contradiction you see is due to your limited thinking, demonstrated here by the definition you've come up with.
No. The contradiction is blatantly obvious, you just lack the intelligence to understand it.
What's fascinating is how you can see so many things in words... and yet be so limited to the shallow meanings of the two words above. You limit and/or distort things when you want to, to serve your convoluted trip. That's what should be blatantly obvious to you.
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Re: Understanding the religious mindset

Post by henry quirk »

"Spiritual" "Atheism" = Lacewing - a contradiction

Nah, lace ain't an atheist, she's a monist...

Monism is the philosophy that asserts oneness as its fundamental premise, and it contradicts the dualism-based theistic premise that there is a creator God that is eternal and separate from the rest of existence. There are two types of monism, namely spiritual monism which holds that all spiritual reality is one, and material monism which holds that everything including all material reality is one and the same thing.

...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creator_deity

And that, seeds, is the point.
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