Free Will

[Age]

I’m sorry — that contains a self-contradiction. If God-material world is non-dual, Then there is no “otherness.” No genuine understanding of the non-dual universe can include the belief in any “other.” All is God.

Then the self-contradiction must be necessary.

It can't be. That which contradicts eliminates both statements by way of the other. All one can do is affirm one, or neither, not both.

You've previously stated: “For God Himself is triune…which means that even in eternity, God was both Himself and the Divine Other, united in Spirit…all before the universe ever began. “ You've included ''otherness'' as God. You've used the word AND which implies otherness.

Now you're onto something. God the Father and God the Son are one in personhood, but two in role...three, when you reckon with the Spirit of God. And because of this, a trinitarian God is the only self-existent God; all other gods must be dependent on the material world for their existence. That's the problem with positing non-dualism.

...nonduality is not a thing.

It's an attempt to describe a state in which everything is one thing. But the idea just doesn't work. The Eastern traditions, it seems, all came to realize this, and all made various attempts to deal with it...rather unsuccessfully, I would say.

Fairy's God: > There is no God, and this is nothing but God, is saying the same thing.

Well, if Fairy IS God, because all is non-dual, then how can Fairy have a god?

“For God Himself is triune…which means that even in eternity, God was both Himself and the Divine Other, united in Spirit…all before the universe ever began. “ ??? HOW?

"How" is a request for a method or a cause for something. God, in Christian thought, is eternal. One cannot ask "how" He can be what He is. What He is has always been.

Do you really anticipate that I, or you, or anyone is going to be able to attribute a "how" to the existence of the eternal Supreme Being?

LOL Not just 'how', but even 'why', is also already fully understood, and known. And, the irrefutable answers were also very simple and very easy to uncover, and obtain. Again, that is once one learns and knows how to find the Truth of things.

you saying and claiming that one cannot ask 'how' is exactly like the "priest" trying to get out of admitting that it does not have answers, thus nor the ability, to back up and support its claims.

And, the reason why you and those ones do not have 'the answers' is because you and they do not know, exactly, what you are actually talking about, and saying.

[Age]

My God IC...even the Bible speaks of the Non-dual God many times...here's an expample:

Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is over everything, through everything, and in everything

Whoops. You took it out of context. Ephesians 4 is talking about the confession of Christians about who their Father is. But it goes on to identify their common Saviour as Christ (4, 5, 11, 15-16), and the basis of their unity the Spirit of God (3-4, 30). So it's trinitarianism again.

you misinterpreted again.

[Age]

You were never open to ideas, only to your beliefs. To be open to ideas, it's precisely the beliefs which must be questioned. For someone like you, whose beliefs have long merged into fact such an analysis is impossible.

Well, there's another way of looking at that: and that is, that person with weak, malformed ideas is very likely to find somebody with better ideas "not open" to what they have to offer.

Good thing, too.

That would be true if history, logic, and science were all malformations, though they remain my guides to discovery, whereas everything you need to know or aspire to know, begins with Adam and Eve as the first mating couple, history proceeding from there. Total acceptance of the majorly malformed ideas of biblical times is your specialty, not mine. One has to wonder how moderns, after so much discovery, can still think that way but evidently such malformations of the brain are clearly possible.

If you ever get it right, you'll know what to blame it on.

The bible tells stories, through 'science', itself, those stories in the bible are backed up and supported.

For example, the story about "adam" and "eve" is a story about how human beings were 'created', through 'evolution', and how through 'evolution', 'this world' was 'created. All of which has been backed up and proved through and with 'science'.

And, if absolutely any one would like to go into this further or in absolutely any 'depth' at all, then I am more than ready, and willing, to.

[Age]

Well, there's another way of looking at that: and that is, that person with weak, malformed ideas is very likely to find somebody with better ideas "not open" to what they have to offer.

Good thing, too.

That would be true if history, logic, and science were all malformations...

Oh. So you think they back you? I'd be really interested to see that demonstrated. Fire away.

Do you think they back you "Immanuel can"?

If yes, then I am very interested to see you demonstrate that.

[Flannel Jesus]

Will you provide examples of when sometimes learning is, supposedly, never 'good'?

If no, then why not?

Sometimes

So, again, 'we' have another who claims that it will, but actually it never does.

And again, this is because if they even just attempted to, then they would end up contradicting "their" 'self'.

Sometimes they claim and does it, always they does don't claim it. You're clearly very wise

[Age]

That would be true if history, logic, and science were all malformations...

Oh. So you think they back you? I'd be really interested to see that demonstrated. Fire away.

If these disciplines, including ceaseless research, back the status quo of modern western civilization and not the Taliban variety, which you're more related to, I'd subscribe to that as there being nothing more advanced in terms of knowledge at this time. If you, however, had been born a Muslim, you'd have turned out exactly as you are now, an absolute literalist, the only difference being one of scripture demonstrating what a diseased mind looks like in both cases.

With "Immanuel can's" absolute 'belief' in just what it has previously experienced and assumed as being absolutely true, just because 'this' is what it was 'taught', then if someone like "immanuel can" was born into and brought up in a "muslim" society, then because of "Immanuel can's" already shown and proved ability to misinterpret the 'teachings', absolutely, and also because of "immanuel can's" extremely 'separatist' views as well, then "immanuel can" would probably not be around anymore as it would have already committed suicide while trying to kill as many 'others' as it could all in the name of and for 'its belief'.

Obviously "immanuel can" has, and still is, proving, absolutely, that it would, and will, fight 'to the death' for 'its beliefs' here, and no matter how obviously False and Wrong 'its beliefs' are to any or even every one else.

[Age]

More nonsense to follow.

Well that's what we expect from you, perhaps one day you might surprise us.

Atto’s God

Fairy’s God

IC’s God

That’s 3 Gods just there.

See the problem?

To me 'a problem' is just 'a question' posed for 'a solution'. So, I, literally, do not see 'a problem' here, at all.

What I do see here, however, are three separate individual human beings who each have differing set of views and beliefs, within.

Now, and once more, what is actually and irrefutably True, and Right, in Life, is found, and known, through what is 'in agreement' among human beings, and not from what is 'in disagreement'.

Furthermore, the parts in what each of you are individually saying here which are irrefutably True, from those parts that you are each expressing which are False are crystal clear to 'see', and recognize. Again, that is when one learns and knows how to 'look at' and 'see' things, from the True and Right perspective.

If all we’re doing is trying to show our own God, the one according to our own understanding to each other. Then One God is a false notion.

Not necessarily so.

Just because you are each sharing your own individual personal, different, views and beliefs, which are just coming from the Assumptions from your own individual personal, different, Previous Experiences, then this does not conclude that the One and only God is false nor even a false notion.

What that means is that you are each just expressing and sharing your own, gained along the way, personal and different views and beliefs, only.

That’s the nonsense of claiming to know God. God never claimed to be God, or ever claimed to exist. Only humans are claiming the existence of a God.

And, why do so many of you human beings claim 'this'?

What even is this God thing, exactly, which you human beings claim does, or does not, exist?

Have you even got to 'this part', yet?

A human is a concept known within consciousness.

It could also be said that absolutely every thing is a concept known within consciousness, as well.

But, what was the point of you saying and expressing what you did here?

Now tell me honestly, can that which exists as a concept known, really know anything of it’s existence outside of this direct knowledge, this immediate, not- knowing known?

Well, the 'concept' known as God, is said to know absolutely every thing. Which obviously must include of Its existence also.

More irrational nonsense to follow.
It’s not surprising at all.

If you 'know' that what you say and claim here is 'nonsense', then in 'what sense' does it make in sharing and expressing 'it'?

Look, absolutely all of you posters here having been sharing and expressing things here that are absolutely irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct, but what unfortunately is happening is that you are all allowing your unjustifiable beliefs and presumptions to get in 'the way' of the irrefutable Facts that you are all so desperately wanting, and 'trying to', share and express here.

For just about every one of you regular posters here you all have and are 'holding' onto A Truth, which when all are 'put together' will reveal to the rest of humanity what the actual irrefutable Truth is, forever more. But, until you all 'let go off' and 'get rid of' of the False, Wrong, and distorted beliefs and views that you all are also, still, holding onto, then 'we' together, as One, will not move on, and proceed, here.

Which, again, is another thing in this forum being shown, and revealed, which will absolutely benefit humanity, and thus the rest of the earth, forever more.

[Age]

Atto’s God

Honestly - U did come forth with some gold: Ephesians 4:6

Yes, but that gold was a nugget of knowledge.

Knowledge can only point to the illusory nature of reality, in that it's ONE.

The concept of ONE is a known concept of knowledge,, one is simply known, one in this case, is referring to itself, it's reflecting upon itself alone, it simply means, there is no God because there is no other than God.

After long enough 'reflecting' One can, and did, come-to-'see' 'recognize' who and what thee Self, really is. Or, in another way, 'I' have already come-to-'know' thy Self.

'I' am God, of which there is only One.

'I', in the visible sense, is the 'matter', which can be seen, heard, smelt, felt, and tasted.

'I', in the invisible sense, is the Mind, which cannot be seen, heard, smelt, felt, nor tasted, but is 'known', and 'known', irrefutably, to exist.

'I/God' being 'matter', and, 'Mind' am, literally, the Universe, Itself. Which although is an eternal and infinite One, is actually made up of 'two' things, alone. They being, visible, 'matter', and, invisible, 'space'.

Now, 'matter' is, contrary to what most have never really also considered, just One thing only. But which is throughout the whole Universe and which has to be separated by 'a distance', of which is just known as 'space'.

The 'two' co-jointly exist as One, because one without the other is an absolute impossibility. As has been, and can be, explained and proved True.

God exists, but only when one is defining the word God as being within, and the Creator of, ALL.

God, therefore, could never ever be 'gendered', a 'person, nor anything else. Unless, of course, one wants to 'try to' say and claim that God is something else.

Now, because of the way this One and only Universe works, you human beings have been 'installed' with 'free will', when the words 'free will' are being defined as 'the ability to choose', but what has also been 'pre-installed', relative to your human being perspective, is a 'deterministic' factor, which is leading all of you to 'where' every one, literally, wants to be. That is; living in Peace, and in Harmony, with one another, together, as One, HERE is this One and only Universe, NOW.

This is only One, which is moving towards Creating what 'I/t' Truly want, and desire.

This One is, however, at the fundamental level made up of 'two' things, as this is the only way the One thing could exist. And, it are these two, separate or different, things, which provides 'a perception' of 'separation'. It is because of this 'perceived separation' that is only way the human brain can make 'sense' of 'the world' and Universe, in which it has found itself within. And, it was the human brain, a biological information gathering and storing device that was needed for the One and only God, 'I', to be, literally, able to come-to-know (thy) Self.

Now, of course, and obviously, if you human beings had wiped "yourselves" out before 'I' came-to-know who and what 'I' am, exactly, then, because the Universe, Itself, is eternal, then 'one day' another intelligent enough species, of biological matter, would have evolved, and come into, Existence, from which 'I', the Universe, God, Itself would have come-to-know recognize, and know, 'Thee' anyway.

Now, for you human beings who think 'you are It', as the saying goes, well 'you' are not.

'I', God, have been and am the One who has been, and 'NOW' has, 'come-to-know thy Self', as the Revelation has been referred to.

'I' am 'IT', as "attofishpi" calls 'IT'. 'you', human beings, are not 'It'. 'you' human beings are, and have been, just a 'part of the process', along 'the way', of the One coming to know One.

[Age]

Honestly - U did come forth with some gold: Ephesians 4:6

Yes, but that gold was a nugget of knowledge.

Yes, and it never ceases to amaze me when God provides the info in such a timely manner, this time working via the synapses within your brain to provide atto with said info. (as pertinent to my current ongoing chat with IC)

LOL If you posters here only 'knew', exactly, what has, literally, 'just' been happening and occurring here all along 'the evolution' of this forum.

The so-called 'info' that has been and which will continue to be presented, in a so-called 'timely manner', a great majority of got missed, misinterpreted, and/or misunderstood, back when it was being written and presented, but will, and did, become plainly obvious for 'us'.

[Age]

...he formed from the pantheistic matter that is God.

A pantheistic "god" couldn't even exist. "Existence" would be an impossible concept, then.

Concepts are possible.

Are you not reading a concept right now on this white board, the concept that appears to you in coloured symbols which are being revealed to you right now.
And the only reason you the reader are able to see the coloured symbols is because they are written on a contrasting screen so as to stand out from the screen. But notice, that as soon as you start to read and make sense of what you are reading, it is important that both the screen and it's contents are inseparably one reality, even though appearing as two thing, the words and the blank screen on which the words are being looked upon. Both the concepts and the screen on which they appear, cannot be known to exist, independently in and of themself without the other to compliment it and make it whole.

Every 'thing' that is seen, heard, felt, smelt, or tasted is made up of the exact same 'one thing', 'that' just being 'matter', itself.

That a 'separation' 'appears' is because of the distance, or 'space', between and around 'matter', itself.

But, and again, the 'two' combined, and which are, literally, inseparable make up the One and only Universe, which exists, and which is also known and goes by the name God, Itself.

For example: a pure white blank screen, is not going to show anything, or know anything, even though it's here, and has to be here, in order to be able to know a concept, written upon it's screen.

Why do you think or believe 'things' like 'pure white blank screens' 'knows' things, or 'know concepts'.

As far as i am aware only thinks like 'brains', with 'thoughts', or 'thinking', which are themselves 'concepts', 'knows' things.

Well that screen, is like what awareness is.

To me the words 'pure white blank screen' refers to a physical thing, obviously made up of 'matter', itself, which can be 'felt'. Whereas, the word 'awareness', itself, refers to some thing completely different, which cannot be 'felt'.

The blank screen of awareness, is a metaphor, the absence of which is never an experience, so awareness always has to be first and fundamental.

What you want to express, and share, is absolutely and irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct, however when you 'try to' express, and share, 'it' in 'the way' you do here, you are not helping anyone, including 'you'.

There is only here the experience of awareness aware of itself,

If 'awareness' really is 'aware' of 'itself', here, then what is 'awareness', itself, exactly? Where did 'it' come from, exactly? And, how does 'it' work, exactly?

When 'you' are able to explain these answers, irrefutably, Accurately, and succinctly, then do so, but until then 'you' are saying things that you cannot yet back up, support, justify, nor prove absolutely True.

one without a second, and yet appearing as the many, as the words are being looked upon, as they are being read by the one reader.

Okay. you have re-repeated this same thing many times over. But why not wait saying and claiming 'this' until you have the actual proof of how, why, when, where, and what is actually and irrefutably happening and occurring, first?

Although what you say and claim regarding 'Awareness being Aware of Itself' HERE-NOW is, more or less, only what 'there is' is absolutely and irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct, and which I can prove so, but when you are not yet able to back up and support what you say and claim, then why not just wait? Is there any rush or need to hurry here?

What "immanuel can" also says and claims about God, or Awareness, does exist is also absolutely and irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct, but expressing and sharing other things, like God is male gendered, only does more harm and damage to what "immanuel can" also is in an absolute hurry and rush to share, express, and get across as well.

Just like "attofishpi's" God is within all matter is also absolutely and irrefutably True, Right, Accurate, and Correct, but also being in a rush and hurrying to express this is not helping "attofishpi" in any way also.

I will, again, suggest that if absolutely any one has a claim that they want to make here, in this forum, then they wait until they have the absolute irrefutable proof for 'that claim' before they make 'that claim' known in public forum, especially one like a philosophy forum, where obviously the point of a forum like this one is to have one's own views, beliefs, and claims critiqued, questioned and/or challenged.

Notice consciousness is in every single one of us, it's the same one consciousness behind every creatures eyes, and the consciousness that is human is appearing in every human, and so every humans reading this white board, are seeing the exact same images, appearing as words, and are conceptually known to all of us who are reading via the knowledge we already have accumulated since our birth, namely, our conception of ourself. So you see, concepts are possible. It works for other languages as well, all languages are concepts known by the knower of those particular languages.

And so as soon as words start to appear upon that blank nothingness, is when something appears and reveals itself to itself, via the contrast, via the complimentary opposite, which is always an inseparable unity and nothing else.

The contradiction is necessary if the reader which is consciousness is able to make sense of it's reality, because it is through the words, that consciousness becomes consciousness of itself in it's own conception, via the concept of it's own knowing.

'Contrast' is needed, for this is how the brain works in making sense, comprehending, and understanding. Whereas 'contradictions' are not needed.

Remember, there is no such thing as non-duality, because non-duality is not a thing. Duality is all things, all concepts, known to the ONE and only ONE...that one is the reader.

But, you human being readers are, obviously, very different individual things.

The One and only One, however, is a very different Reader.

Many authors appear as concepts known to the reader, but there is only ever ONE reader reading writing no one ever wrote. That's the illusory nature of knowledge.

Although there is only One, Individual, only, within all of you human beings, it is through individual human bodies where, and why, comes so many individual different stories, and perspectives.

Which is and was a necessary part of Life, so that Life, Itself, could become known, and verified as irrefutably True, 'eventually'.

The illusion is all that's ever known and seen.

And yet another different individual human being would say and claim the opposite. That is; what is actually seen, and known, is what is actually True, and Real, and not an 'illusion', at all.

So, which one of you human beings is actually 'seeing' and 'telling' the actual, and irrefutable, Truth here?

And so concepts are possible, just as illusions are possible. Things are never what they seem to be,

So, if as you say and claim here, if 'things are 'never' what they seem to be', then what 'seems to be', to you, that it is 'the illusion is all that is ever known and seen', then would actually be 'never what is seem, nor 'seen', to be', correct?

See, absolutely every one who tries to claim things like, 'There is no truth', or 'things are never what they seem to be', are actually just refuting their own claims. What they are expressing is, literally, 'self-refuting'.

For example, the claim, 'Things are never what they seem to be', literally means, that 'the claim', 'Things are never what they seem to be', is not what it seems to be. Which means that it is False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect.

nor are they never NOT what they seem to be.

So, what you said here, and before, is neither what it seems to be nor not what it seems to be, right?

If yes, then what is 'it', exactly, which is neither?

The apparent contradiction is DIVINE

Why do you say 'apparent' here?

Is there a contradiction, or not, or both?

[Immanuel Can]

LOL

Sorry, "Age": not interested.

[Age]

Yes, but that gold was a nugget of knowledge.

Yes, and it never ceases to amaze me when God provides the info in such a timely manner, this time working via the synapses within your brain to provide atto with said info. (as pertinent to my current ongoing chat with IC)

Yes I understand what you are saying and meaning. I have no problem with you personally. I get that we can only know the God of our own understandings.

I'm not a fan of your personality, it has an energy that's too abrasive and erratic and noisy for my personal liking. But having said that, I kind of sense you are a good, caring, and compassionate empath, and that underneath all your rather aggressive reactive behaviour, is some very intelligent man.

'Behind' or within all of the regular posters here there is a Being, which is the absolute Intelligent One, and who is the One who has been trying to get you adult human beings to 'listen', and 'hear', here. This is 'the One' who is the Truly Intelligent, Good, Caring, Compassionate, and Caring One, and who is 'the One' who is 'driving' all of you human beings here to remain and to 'keep trying to express' what is actually True and Right. But, in 'front of' this One, there is 'you', human beings, who are twisting and distorting the actual Truth, from coming to the forefront, because of those presumptions and beliefs, which 'you' really just do not yet want to 'let go of' and 'get rid of'.

The Truly Intelligent One, within all of 'you', is the One and only One, which also goes by the names Spirit, Allah, God, Enlightenment, among others. The "man" or "woman" is never the Truly Intelligent One, but is just the misnomers that you adult human beings give, and put onto,"yourselves".

I prefer the peace and tranquil life.

There is not a human being who did not. But, obviously, some 'prefer' the opposite, but this only happens and occurs when one has more or less only experienced 'the opposite', and thus has become accustomed, or just used to. See, what one is, or was, 'used to' can become, seemingly, 'comfortable', and/or even 'wanted', although what 'that' is can appear completely confusing or not, yet, understandable, to another.

See, what is 'abuse' to one, can be 'loved' and/or 'wanted' by another. But, again, this is solely because of 'past experiences', only.

I like IC, because he's peaceful, he has all the time in the world to listen to others, he is eager to help others evolve spiritually.

'Appearances' are not always 'as they appear'. But, again, what 'appears' to one, might not, to another.

And, if 'all is 'an illusion', to you "fairy", then how "Immanuel can" 'comes across', to you, would just be 'another illusion', correct?

By the way, well to me anyway, "immanuel can" might appear somewhat 'peaceful' only because it actually believes, absolutely, that it 'knows' 'the answers', and because of 'this belief' it comes across very condescending, at times. To me, "immanuel can" is never really trying to help others for the 'good' or 'benefit' of humanity, itself, although "immanuel can" believes otherwise, and absolutely so, because it really does just believe that everyone 'should' read the bible and be a "christian" only. Which is, obviously, really 'just one' who does not have and share compassion, understand, nor empathy. Which, really, is rather contradictory considering these are meant to be some of the 'values' of being a "christian".

I like that about him. You on the other hand are very intolerant and dismissive of other people sometimes, which is frustrating, because you are extremely clued up about what God means to you personally, and I admire that. I share the same fire and passion when it comes to God.

What these ones are doing here, which is 'trying to' 'fight against' in each other, in relation to God, and who and what God is, exactly, really 'was' what adult human beings did, seemingly 'continuously, back in those very 'olden days' when this was being written.

[Age]

Then the self-contradiction must be necessary.

It can't be. That which contradicts eliminates both statements by way of the other. All one can do is affirm one, or neither, not both.

Come on now, the claim of yours that God is triune three in ONE God, being the father, son, and the holy spirit..as ONE wholly whole. Is a contradiction in the knowledge of that knowledge. Surely you must see that?

But it is not a contradiction at all. The only 'contradiction' here is the one in 'misinterpretation', itself.

The 'father', the 'son', and the 'holy ghost' just refers to God, 'the father' 'all matter', in the form of human body, 'the son' of which one 'human body' was known and referred to as "jesus christ", and the 'holy ghost', which is just the invisible 'Spirit' within 'all matter', which is also what allows human beings to 'empathize', or 'transcend' through all other things, and to also 'know' things from the perspective of all other things.

The 'father', 'son', and 'holy ghost' is just in reference to the One and only Universe, which is made up of the 'visible', and, the 'invisible', with the predecessors guiding, or determining, what will come next. The 'father' and the 'son' are One as one obviously, long enough, 'grows up' to become 'the other'. 'They' become One if the 'younger one' is guided and instructed as, and in, the 'exact same way', as One.

It's not that the contradiction is literal, it's simply a pointing to an absolute truth, and that pointing can only be done through the knowledge of unitary opposites. The non-dual God.

Non, as in nothing. Dual as in everything. And God the concept known, is the 'something' that flows between the two polar opposites.


(''Keep silent, because the world of silence is a vast fullness.'' Rumi)

[Age]

It's an attempt to describe a state in which everything is one thing. But the idea just doesn't work. The Eastern traditions, it seems, all came to realize this, and all made various attempts to deal with it...rather unsuccessfully, I would say.

As you wish, so say you, you do you then.

But for the one here, the nondual God is very much the most successful realisation of truth, that ever graced my seeking years.

And, every word in the bible 'points to' the One God. So, why are you and "immanuel can" arguing over here, exactly? And, what are you two even bickering and fighting over, exactly?

if either or both of you are, still, unaware, you have both been talking about and referring to the exact same Thing.

you both, however, just use some Truly False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect words, and phrases. And, it is more that you both use False, Wrong, Inaccurate, and Incorrect 'interpretations' of words more so.

The realisation has been the peace that passes all understanding. It's something I have been working with all my life, I have done my homework, and reaped it's reward and rest in that now, I'm finally home with the beloved, after a long introspective search for who I am. I realised there has always been the beloved, and never not the beloved.

This may well be absolutely True, but are 'you', yet, able to explain, and prove, who and what the 'I' am, is, exactly?

Just realizing that there has always been the so-called 'be-loved', and never not the 'beloved' is just like "attofishpi" realizing that God, 'the beloved' does exist, and "immanuel can" realizing that God, 'the beloved', has always existed.

But, just realizing 'these things' is not helping any of you in proving them to be irrefutably True. Now, where is the irrefutable proof for 'these things'?

By the way, the 'irrefutable proof' is already HERE, and of which 'I' am ready to show and to reveal to all of 'you'.

If you do not grasp what nonduality is pointing to, then so be it, your opinion changes nothing.

And, 'the others' can say and claim the 'exact same thing', to 'you'. That is; if 'you' do not grasp what 'they do', and what 'that' is pointing to, then so be it, your opinion changes nothing.

God is, and always was, and will be, and this obviousness, cannot be known by any thing created, simply because a thing, is not the knowing, a physical created thing, like an object, can know nothing of it's existence.

Saying and claiming, 'God is, and always was, and will be ...', will not be disputed by "immanuel can" nor "attofishpi". you three, however, just need to discuss, peacefully, who and/or what that always God 'thing' is, actually. That is; if you three really do want to move along, proceed, and actually get 'somewhere'.

There is zero, absolutely no experience, of ever being an object. And at the same time, there is zero, no experience whatsoever, of the absence of experience. You have always existed, because only consciousness is experienced, consciousness is the experience experiencing itself alone...nothingness, is never consciousnesses ''all alone experience'', there is no such experience as nothingness.

When 'you' say, 'you' here, are 'you' speaking to the human being known as "immanuel can" or to God, exactly?

For if 'you' are speaking to "immanuel can", then I think 'you' will find that "immanuel can" nor 'you' have always existed. God, however, is another thing, another story, or 'another kettle of fish', as some might say.

Pure objectless experience of aliveness, is the only knowing there is, and all that can ever be known to be real and true. And you are that, and so am I

But, the 'knowing' done through the invisible exists and comes about because of visible objects.

[Age]

My God IC...even the Bible speaks of the Non-dual God many times...here's an expample:

Ephesians 4:6

One God and Father of all, who is over everything, through everything, and in everything

Whoops. You took it out of context. Ephesians 4 is talking about the confession of Christians about who their Father is. But it goes on to identify their common Saviour as Christ (4, 5, 11, 15-16), and the basis of their unity the Spirit of God (3-4, 30). So it's trinitarianism again.

Yes, it does appear to be a trinity. No doubt about that.

But you fail to notice, there is no need for the middle man, for Christ is one with his Father, and so there is no other 'man' here on earth, other than Him alone.

The one pointing to this truth, is the same one being pointed upon, the mirror is both the the projector and the projected image upon itself, and are exact images of each other.

But, the 'projector', or in other words the 'mirror', is not the 'projected image upon 'itself, that is 'the mirror'. The 'mirror' is 'the mirror', and the 'projected image upon 'the mirror' is of a human body, or also what some might refer to as a "male" or "male human body". The 'projected' image is certainly not of 'the mirror', itself.

The mirror and it's image are the Non-dual God and Son together as one inseparable knowing, in the moment knowing arises, one with itself.

But, 'the mirror', and, 'the image' upon 'the mirror' are two different things. Which is very simple and easy to comprehend and understand, and know, by the very fact that there are two distinctively different names, or labels, being used to separate, divide, and define.

This is tricky to grasp. I know, but only those with eyes and ears will see and know this.



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So, are you suggesting that those bodies where the eyes and ears are not functioning, then they are not able to 'know' 'this', whatever the 'this' is, exactly?

If yes, then I would suggest if any of the five senses of the body are not working, then they are, still, able to learn, and 'know', things here.

In fact if when one is 'looking', and even 'listening', thus is 'seeing', and, actually 'hearing', through, and from, with the Truly open Mind, then learning, and 'knowing' 'this', 'that', or 'things' can, and will be, done.