free will: yep, another thread about 'that'...

[Dontaskme]

But you have TOLD us that thoughts within that head ARE ILLUSIONS. So, was this GENUINE or NOT?

Also, you CLAIM people can either BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE your thoughts are genuine, BUT there is ANOTHER option, which is what I do.

The word ''genuine'' only exists as a concept known within the awareness that knows it, it's an idea that's all. An illusion insofar as the conceptual idea ''genuine'' does not exist as a physical thing in an of itself like an object, that can be seen or physically felt by the awareness sensing the idea.


.

[Dontaskme]

But you even just said that; The reason of pain is to ALERT the body when something is WRONG.

So, for some thing as IMPORTANT as 'pain', then should be NO intention to EVER STOP or PREVENT 'pain' arising in the FIRST PLACE.

But I'm not talking about what you are talking about. I'm talking about 'pain' being a bad idea to have to experience. And should we continue to want to experience it, or could we just say we've had enough, and stop procreating until we eventually go extinct..that is my main issue to be honest. I've started to think more deeply about sentient life-forms, and is it really ok to impose what we already know about the pain sensation onto another being. We already know suffering, pain and torture and abuse is a thing... so what are we doing by disturbing the unborn to come and join us in a world of obvious suffering pain and torture and abuse at our own hands, when we can just say no more to it. We have evolved a large enough brain that is intelligent enough to know that the sensation of pain is not nice and that it is a bad idea, no matter what nature thinks it's doing creating sentient feeling creatures, we are nature, so if we are creating it, then surely we can say enough is enough and stop creating more of it... why should we have to go on suffering when we can choose not to, by becoming more aware by simply choosing not to have more babies. I've often heard of parents in despair at the horrors that happen to their children in life, but then if they hadn't have wanted the child in the first place, the child would not have had to suffer the horror, and the parent would not have had to suffer the despair of the horror either.

You talk about pain being important, but to me, it's like what is so important about creating sentient living organisms that are capable of experiencing the horror of pain, suffering and torture and abuse, when they do not have to, that's my main point.

[Dontaskme]

I suggest just ACCEPTING the 'things' that ARE NECESSARY, like 'pain', and AVOID, PREVENT, or STOP those 'things' that are UNNECESSARY, like 'abuse', which causes and creates UNNECESSARY 'pain', and 'suffering'.

But how can abuse be stopped..it cannot. Abuse is hard wired into our very nature of being, we are nature. Our evolutionary past shows us that we were once a ravaging animal, and that beast is still in our dna and blood to be abusive, we are still those blood thirsty creatures we were back in the days of our origins as a living sentient organism that still continues to struggle and fight to survive, even if we look a whole lot different today than we once did. Today most people have to work jobs they absolutely hate doing just to put food on the table and pay the bills. It's a hard life for many people. Sickness and disease is rampant in nature and will never go away. Nothing has changed from our evolutionary past where we had to go out and kill animals with our bare hands just to survive. Today we farm intensively by caging huge amounts of helpless sentient feeling animals just so we can eat, not caring about their rights, or their quality of life that must be so awful and torturous, especially when it's time for them to be slaughted. There seems to be no end to the abuse in this life.
Humans are no different than any other wild animal. We just have labels for our actions that's all, we call something an ''abusive'' action because we know concepts. But that knowledge does not change the fundamental nature of what we are. I read a story of some monkeys seeking revenge on some dogs in India, the dogs had killed a baby monkey, and so the older monkeys grabbed the dogs and carried them to the top of high buildings and dropped them off killing the dogs. So that can be seen as a kind of abuse that nature acts out.

Humans are going to fight for territory and resources forever as long as they are alive. Just like every other creature has had to do to survive. We know we cannot dare go near a wild tiger or a lion or an aligator because they would rip us to shreds. They have their boundries and their own territory too. It's the same for humans, they too will start to rip each other to shreds when their resources start to become depleted through over population.

What I am saying is that nature is a beast and it tortures and kills itself in a bid to survive, that's all that is going on here. It is only through extinction that the torture and abuse can stop for that particular species that has extincted. But for those that still survive the battle goes on.


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[henry quirk]

-30-

[Dontaskme]

-30-

Henry, all you have to do is tell us to stop it... it's not rocket science, this is your thread and I'm sure you are quite capable of directing it as you would like to see it go, as you see fit.

Noted...Henry.

This is my last post here, I'll take my discussions to Age's thread. Age is the best philosopher on this forum in my opinion. Age doesn't bother about what is discussed on it's thread, anything goes as far as Age is concerned, and that's why discussions with Age are what real philosophy is all about in my opinion.

Age, I will continue our discussion over on your thread, see you there.

Goodbye Henry, sorry to have cramped your style and disturbed your thread. I know how some people get a bit ansty over their threads, I get it...byeee

*clicky* people make me sick anyway.

[Age]

I do not think it is my place to discuss the private thoughts of my children on the internet Henry.

Are those 'thoughts' so-called "private" because they CHOSE them to be OR because you are making those 'thoughts' "private" here?

I really do not understand how you don't understand why I use the terminology ''private thoughts''.

But WHY do you ASSUME I do NOT understand WHY you use the terminology "private thoughts" here?

I repeat, ones thoughts are private to the owner of those thoughts.

So, HOW do 'you', supposedly, KNOW the 'private thoughts' of "ANOTHER" if they have NOT YET SHARED those 'thoughts' with 'you'?

Did your children TELL you that they do NOT want you to SHARE their thoughts on if they agree with you here or not, or you just have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA NOR CLUE AT ALL?

Again, it is not my place to share thoughts that I cannot know because I simply DO NOT know what my children are thinking....is that clear?

So, if some one asks you, for example, "Do those (other) four agree (with you)?", then what appears to be NOW BE THEE True answer IS; "I do NOT know henry".

Which is VERY DIFFERENT from the answer; "I do not think it is my place to discuss the private thoughts of my children on the internet Henry."

One answer express thee ACTUAL Truth of things, the other so-called "answer" leads off in some MISLEADING DIRECTION.

I find expressing Truly GENUINE (or Honest) answers MUCH MORE REVEALING, INSPIRING, and INSIGHTFUL, then ANY other answer or response.

Mainly due to the fact that I could not possibly know whether their thoughts are to be genuine or not.

Yes, one can ONLY KNOW when 'thoughts' are genuine and true WHEN one has FULL Trust, Respect, Understanding, Empathy, Loyalty (Honesty) and Openness, with Voluntary Enthusiam with and for EVERY one.

No Age, I simply do not believe this utopian fantasy of yours that we can all be trusting of one another, I simply can't believe your idea could ever be a reality, it is my opinion that we can never trust another human being ever, they are their own being and as I have experienced many times, other people are extremely unpredictable...Im my world view, which is self-preservation, I can only trust my own personal being.

LOL "self-preservation".

How long are 'you' 'trying to' preserve "your" 'self' for, EXACTLY?

And, what for, EXACTLY?

Relatively speaking, in any time at all 'you' will not be around anymore anyway.

Experience has shown me never to trust another thinking organism.

Yeah NEVER trust a new born or very young human being. They are SO UNTRUSTWORTHY, correct "dontaskme"?

Children are trusting of others only because they have limited life experience, and is why they are sometimes treated as just pure objects of pleasure because they are easily able to be manipulated into believing just about anything they are told...

MORE of this "hidden Truth" is now STARTING to be REVEALED here.

Which, by the way is also what love is, as well, because love is unconditionally free to express itself in which ever form it so desires.

Does True 'love' express itself through ABUSE?

That's why child abuse is so common, because the molestation of children is another form of pleasure for the adult who is experienced enough to know how to play the role of pretence. A child will always be the perfect victim for the abuser, because children do not pretend, as they tend to live in the moment, where their reality is always raw pure and genuine.

What you are 'trying to' express here is True, Right, AND Correct. Unfortunately though, the way you are expressing 'it' is NOT working.

I can only discuss my own genuine thoughts about reality,

But according to your "logic" above here, we could NOT possibly KNOW whether your thoughts are to be genuine or not.

In fact the 'thought' and CLAIM you just SHARED here could be the MOST NON genuine thought there is, for all we KNOW, correct?

I repeat, I do not care whether or what others know about my thoughts,

I WILL REPEAT, NO one mentioned ANY thing about this.

as far as I know, no other knows my thoughts, only I know my thoughts.

AGAIN, I suggest one does NOT ASSUME NOR BELIEVE absolutely ANY thing AT ALL. That way they can NEVER be Wrong.

But what you do say here is Correct, but only in the Fact that this is ONLY true as in, 'as far as you know'.

Which means thee ACTUAL Truth could be the EXACT OPPOSITE 'as far as you know', but you just do NOT KNOW this, YET.

Others can hear my thoughts in the form of words they are reading, but then it's up to the reader to interpret those thoughts as they see them and then apply their own meaning as to what they themself believe them to be.

But it does NOT 'have to be' this way AT ALL.

simply because I am the one who knows these thoughts as being a first person direct experience that seems real and genuine for me, I personally come from a place of pure honesty.

But you could just be completely AND utterly DISINGENUOUS here. Again, for all we KNOW, correct?

I could be according to someone else reading my thoughts via the words I write, but then they will never actually know for certain, only I would know for certain, not them.

I would NOT be so CERTAIN here, if 'I' was 'you'.

[Age]

But 'you' can 'try' as much as you like to say some 'thing', but what thee ACTUAL Truth is can STILL be SEEN here.

You can CLAIM to NOT care till the day that body stops breathing and pumping blood. BUT, the Fact that you will NOT STOP 'trying' and 'trying' to be EXPRESS and BE HEARD SHOWS and REVEALS just how much you Truly DO CARE.

I write on this forum for one reason only, and that is because I can, and because I am allowed to do so. So I do.

But that is two reasons and NOT one reason only. The 'and' word in the middle of the two 'because' words caused, and confirmed, this Fact.

And what I write about are my own thoughts about life as a sentient organism.

OF COURSE. Has ANY one SHOWED ANY sign of DISPUTING this?

For me, there is nothing more to it than that, I write here because it's something to do, that I enjoy doing.

Okay, and NOTHING that I can SEE anyway DISPUTES ANY of this.

I simply do not care one iota how what I write here on this forum is perceived by the readers, I really don't care about that.

And, I do NOT DISPUTE this, AT ALL by the way.

So stop acting like you are some kind of super dooper forum psychotherapist that knows what other people are actually feeling and pretending like you know why they are feeling and pretending you have some higher wisdom in the form of what can only be your own ideas that you pretend is good advice as to how to fix what does not align with your own way of thinking.

BUT WHY do 'you', the one known as "dontaskme" ASSUMES that this is what is HAPPENING and OCCURRING here?

Also, do you like "others" TELLING 'you' WHAT TO DO?

If yes, then carry on.

But, if no, then WHY do 'you' do 'that' to "others" here?

Seriously Age, I'd rather kill myself than be the entity that is your mind.

But there is NO "your mind". This is just a MISNOMER that 'you', human beings, in the days when this was being written, just carried on with.

I really do like my own being and mind, even when I'm hating it, I love it, and I will never in a million years ever want to trade it for any other mind if my life depended on it.

Okay. If this is what is BELIEVED, then this MUST BE true, correct?

I'm writing on this forum for my own selfish self-indulgent pleasure and benefit, and not for any other reason.

So, this is the THIRD reason.

I care not about being heard. I am only entertaining myself. I will continue to write on this forum until I am ordered not to do it anymore.

If 'I', for example, order 'you' to not continue to write on this forum anymore, then would 'you'?

If yes, then okay.

But if no, then WHY SAY and CLAIM what you just did here?

If I never receive a reply then that's just what happens, but I absolutely do not care whether or not that happens, and I certainly don't give a damn about having my expressions heard, as you put it...

WHY do you appear SO DISTRAUGHT just because words appear in reply to the words that 'you' write here? Especially consider you just CLAIMED that you do NOT care about being heard, and that 'you' are ONLY entertaining "yourself". Are the words that reply to the words that 'you' personally write, NOT entertaining 'you'? Do 'you' want to see your words ONLY here?

Also, do you NOT want to see NOR hear your OWN words here?

I mean what sort of a weirdo would even say something like that. FFS

Something like 'what', EXACTLY?

Also I am not trying do be heard as you put it, what kind of a creepy weirdo would assume something like that.

USUALLY when 'you', human beings, speak or write TO "another" then it is for the PURPOSE of 'being heard'. Like, for example, when 'you', human babies, cry, this is so 'you' can 'be heard'. 'you', human beings, literally, NEED to 'be heard' for your OWN survival. And, this WANT and DESIRE 'to be heard' lasts with 'you' until the day 'you' "die". As is ALREADY PROVED True. Although some of 'you' have NOT YET even considered this Fact, let alone SEEN this PROOF.

Have 'you' ever heard me SAY that;

Absolutely EVERY thing is relative to the observer?

If you have, then who AND what thee 'observer' is, EXACTLY, makes a LOT of DIFFERENCE.

All ideas about reality are relative to the observer.

And when things are LOOKED AT from thee One and ONLY True Observer's perspective, then this is when thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' is SEEN, UNDERSTOOD, and KNOWN.

That is known by anyone with half a brain, and this one is an absolute known to me, that one to me here, is known as pure absolute emptiness in which everything arises inseparable from it..

What is the 'one' word here in 'your' sentence in relation to EXACTLY?

Believe that or not, I do not care two hoots, for it's my truth, that I will take to my grave.

But 'you' do NOT go to a so-called "grave". 'you' will last forever more, having ALREADY made 'your' MARK.

Also, and by the way, I neither BELIEVE nor DISBELIEVE ANY thing.

[Age]

That's right, I cannot know the thoughts of my own children.

PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE, READ thee ACTUAL WORDS that I WRITE and USE here.

I NEVER mentioned ANY thing about you being about to knot the thoughts of your own children, or not.

There is NOTHING in what I CLEARLY WROTE that mentions or talks about ANY thing like that.

If ANY one WONDERS WHY I cam continually seeking to learn how to be BETTER UNDERSTOOD by human beings, in the days when this was being written, then here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of WHY I REALLY do NEED to continue learning.

I can NOT even say the words above here, in PLAIN SIMPLE, VERY CLEAR, PRINTED LETTERS, without them WORDS be COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISINTERPRET and MISCONSTRUED.

What I ACTUALLY SAID can be CLEARLY SEEN, but how some of the people, in those days, took what I SAID what in ABSOLUTELY DIFFERENT OTHER WAY. And, in A WAY that I NEVER even ACTUALLY SAID, nor MEANT. As can be CLEARLY SEEN here.

Okay, no need to fret the small stuff,

But I am NOT so-called "fretting". WHY MADE 'you' ASSUME such a thing.

I just asked you, VERY NICELY AGAIN, to just STOP ASSUMING things and to just read ONLY the ACTUAL WORDS that I write and use here.

there's worse things going on in the world to sweat over, than to care about whether your words are being COMPLETELY and UTTERLY MISINTERPRET and MISCONSTRUED.

If I was to NOT CARE, AT ALL, about if my words are being being MISCONSTRUED and/or MISINTERPRETED or NOT, then WHY would I bother using and writing words anyway?

Also, what are some of the 'worse things' going on in the 'world', in the days when this was being written?

The READERS are INTRIGUED to LEARN MORE here.

I personally don't care if my own words are not understood by the reader, for me, my mouth is like a waterfall, it just flows out in the moment ...sometimes it's as though I have some sort of ''Verbal Tourette Syndrome'' my mouth just overflows what my heart is full of.

Well considering the ACTUAL 'heart' is "full" of is blood, then does what you say here MEAN that blood is flowing out of that mouth of that body?

'you', "dontaskme", REALLY DO write in VERY PECULIAR, False, Wrong, Incorrect, AND CONTRADICTORY ways sometimes. Other times what 'you' say is just PURE ABSURD, ILLOGICAL, RIDICULOUS, and TOTALLY NONSENSICAL, to say the least.

I make no apologies for how I express myself, I can only be myself in every moment.

But HOW can 'you' ONLY be a so-called "myself" when the word "myself" is a TOTAL MISNOMER, and especially when 'you' do NOT YET even KNOW who NOR what the 'you' IS, EXACTLY, who NOR what the 'my' word refers to, EXACTLY, NOR who NOR what the 'self' word refers to, EXACTLY?

I never regret anything I say, or care about how what I say is perceived by the reader, simply because once it's out, it's stays out, like spilt milk.

So, you can write ABSOLUTELY ANY thing about ABSOLUTELY ANY one 'adult' OR 'child' and have ABSOLUTELY NO regrets about what you SAY or CALL that 'child', for example, correct?

Unlike you, I am not interested in learning how to communicate with people,

I have KNOWN this Fact from about the VERY FIRST communication with 'you', "dontaskme". You have made this NON INTEREST in communicating with "others", BETTER or AT ALL, VERY CLEAR. This Fact that 'you' do NOT care about communicating with people is VERY OBVIOUS in the way you write and TALK TO "others".

And part of this NON CARING about communicating with people, human beings - adult AND child, is because you would MUCH PREFER that NONE of them were EVER born AT ALL.

I gave that practice up years ago, when I realised other people will never understand me, no matter how much I hope they will, they never seem to get me.

And here is ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE of BELIEF, AT WORK.

BELIEF WILL ACTUALLY CAUSE self-sabotage, just to make the BELIEF come true.

So I'm just here on this forum to express my philosophical theories about the nature of reality, it's like some kind of hobby for me, like something to do, so to speak. I do not care if no one understands what I am talking about, or that I do not make sense, because to me, everything I write about makes total sense to me, and that makes me happy.

I am NOT understanding WHY 'you' HAVE TO write 'your' OWN theories, in a place where "others" CAN, and WILL, see 'them' when, SUPPOSEDLY, what you write makes "total sense" to 'you' ALREADY. So, WHY, EXACTLY, are 'you' writing 'your theories' down here, in this forum? WHY NOT just write them on a piece of paper, or on a message and sent them to 'you' ONLY?

Also, what does the 'that' word refer to, EXACTLY, which, SUPPOSEDLY, is what makes 'you' 'happy' here?

[Age]

But you have TOLD us that thoughts within that head ARE ILLUSIONS. So, was this GENUINE or NOT?

Also, you CLAIM people can either BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE your thoughts are genuine, BUT there is ANOTHER option, which is what I do.

The word ''genuine'' only exists as a concept known within the awareness that knows it,

We, or at least 'I', have ALREADY gone through this ALREADY. That is, to 'you', absolutely EVERY word ONLY exists as a 'concept known', within the awareness that knows it. So, there is NO REAL USE in bringing this up, ONLY, at those time when 'you' ARE STUCK and DUMBFOUNDED in HOW to respond to the ACTUAL WORDS and/or QUESTIONS I write, to 'you'.

Either say the above in EVERY response you give, or NEVER say it AGAIN and JUST answer the ACTUAL CLARIFYING questions posed to and/or JUST respond the ACTUAL WORDS written to you.

Responding with these words that you have here SHOWS that you are NOT ABLE to back up and support YOUR CLAIMS with ANY thing of substantial AT ALL. And, ONCE AGAIN, I will suggest if one is NOT ABLE to back up and supports one's CLAIMS BEFORE they put them in print here, in this forum, then it is BETTER for them that they NEVER present their CLAIMS AT ALL here, in this forum.

it's an idea that's all.

But, as 'we', or at least 'I', have ALREADY gone through, the word 'genuine' EXISTS in BOTH 'a concept' and in 'an actual occurrence' when, for example, a human being, like the one the words "dontaskme" refers to, is ACTUALLY being 'genuine' or NOT.

And, what can be CLEARLY SEEN here and PROVED True, is 'you', "dontaskme", is NOT being 'genuine' AT ALL in the way you have responded so far in this thread.

An illusion insofar as the conceptual idea ''genuine'' does not exist as a physical thing in an of itself like an object,

OF COURSE 'genuine' is NO ACTUAL 'physical thing', NOR ANY 'visibly seen thing', like a physical 'object' IS. To even ASSUME or to CLAIM 'it' was would be ABSURDITY and INSANITY, to the extreme, or INGENUOUS, at least.

that can be seen or physically felt by the awareness sensing the idea.
.

Now that you HAVE DISTRACTED this to ABSOLUTE and INSANE lengths, let us get back to what I ACTUALLY WROTE and SAID, which was:

But you have TOLD us that thoughts within that head ARE ILLUSIONS. So, was this GENUINE or NOT?

Also, you CLAIM people can either BELIEVE or DISBELIEVE your thoughts are genuine, BUT there is ANOTHER option, which is what I do.

Are the 'thoughts' within that head, ILLUSIONS or NOT?

Also, are you YET AWARE there is ANOTHER option besides just those two that you provided here?

What we have here are just two EXTREMELY VERY SIMPLE QUESTIONS.

Let us SEE what is PROVIDED, this time.

[Age]

But you even just said that; The reason of pain is to ALERT the body when something is WRONG.

So, for some thing as IMPORTANT as 'pain', then should be NO intention to EVER STOP or PREVENT 'pain' arising in the FIRST PLACE.

But I'm not talking about what you are talking about.

FIRSTLY, what is 'it' you ASSUME here that I am 'talking about'?

I'm talking about 'pain' being a bad idea to have to experience.

Well we can ALL 'talk about' 'pain' "being a "bad idea" to have experience". But to do so is to NOT 'talk about' thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things'.

Which, by the way, 'you' have been NOT 'talking about' thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' for thousands upon thousands of years, and instead have just been talking about what 'you', EACH or COLLECTIVELY, PERCEIVE are 'bad (or good) ideas).

ALSO, you WROTE that the reason of pain is to ALERT the body when something is WRONG. Which can ONLY EVER be a 'good thing', or 'good idea'.

And, as I have POINTED OUT, MANY TIMES ALREADY, the 'pain', which NONE of 'you' should EVER experience is ONLY the 'pain' that 'you', adult human beings, INFLICTED on "others".

So, I will AGAIN suggest writing words like " 'pain' being a bad idea to have to experience ", you write 'things' that ACTUALLY ALIGN with ONLY what IS ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct, ONLY. And, in words that you may use, in the days when this being written, they are 'things' like, for example; ' physical 'pain' is felt, and IS Natural and normal (a GREAT IDEA) to experience, when it is NOT be inflicted by ABUSE from "others". AND, that the internal 'pain' felt from being ABUSED by "others" is NOT a GOOD IDEA AT ALL.

This can be word in a MUCH MORE BETTER, or SUCCINCT, WAY, which would be IRREFUTABLE and thus ABSOLUTELY True, Right, and Correct. But this WILL come about, later on.

And should we continue to want to experience it, or could we just say we've had enough, and stop procreating until we eventually go extinct..

OF COURSE we SHOULD experience the 'pain', which is USEFUL for our CONTINUED SURVIVAL, and which is the VERY PURPOSE of 'pain' itself.

SHOULD we, however, CONTINUE causing or inflicting 'pain', which is UNNECESSARY and Wrong? OF COURSE NOT.

Even 'you', "dontaskme", CLAIM and ASSERT that The reason of pain is to ALERT the body when something is WRONG. So, even to 'you', we SHOULD CONTINUE to WANT to EXPERIENCE 'pain'.

'pain' after all is just ANOTHER feeling, and a part of what makes 'us' FEEL ALIVE.

Also, if you FEEL 'you' have "had enough" and WANT or DESIRE to STOP 'procreating', then this does NOT mean that this way of THINKING, LOOKING AT, and/or SEEING 'things' is some thing for human beings COLLECTIVELY, let alone for just one "other" human being.

It is like, the one known as "dontaskme" VIEWS and SEES 'things' 'this way', SO EVERY one "else" SHOULD AS WELL.

But, IF, and WHEN, the Truth comes to LIGHT even "dontaskme's" VERY OWN children do NOT FULLY LOOK AT and SEE 'things' this way.

This is all just "dontaskme's" PERSPECTIVE of things, which in a way 'it' is 'trying to' FORCE "others" to SEE, and DO.

that is my main issue to be honest. I've started to think more deeply about sentient life-forms, and is it really ok to impose what we already know about the pain sensation onto another being.

Is there REALLY ANY thing Wrong with creating ANOTHER sentient life form with the ability to sense 'pain'? Or, is causing 'pain' onto ANOTHER sentient life form what is REALLY Wrong here?

We already know suffering, pain and torture and abuse is a thing...

OF COURSE WE DO. We ALSO KNOW that it is ONLY 'you', adult human beings, WHO cause AND create these things, (besides 'pain', which can be caused by just falling over and scratching a knee, for example).

so what are we doing by disturbing the unborn to come and join us in a world of obvious suffering pain and torture and abuse at our own hands, when we can just say no more to it.

LOL Would it NOT be MORE PRODUCTIVE for 'you' to just STOP doing 'that' what CAUSES 'suffering' AND 'pain', which is just 'torture' AND 'abuse'?

It is like 'you' have a WANT and SOME BELIEF that it would be EASIER for Life, Itself, to stop creating sentient life INSTEAD of 'you', adult human beings, to just STOP doing what CAUSES completely UNNECESSARY 'pain' AND 'suffering'.

Which, as can be CLEARLY SEEN here, is absolutely and TOTALLY an ABSURD and CRAZY IDEA, to say the least.

This thread is ABOUT 'free will' itself. And, it is by USING 'free will', itself, that 'you', adult human beings, are ABLE to, and WILL, STOP ABUSING the current and future generations of CHILDREN, and thus "your" OWN 'selves'.

We have evolved a large enough brain that is intelligent enough to know that the sensation of pain is not nice and that it is a bad idea, no matter what nature thinks it's doing creating sentient feeling creatures, we are nature, so if we are creating it, then surely we can say enough is enough and stop creating more of it...

1. 'We', or 'you', have NOT evolved a large enough brain. The brains within human bodies have evolved, the way they have.

2. Intelligence is NOT held in NOR with the brain. Intelligence is OR comes from thee Mind.

3. ANY animal, or sentient life, which feels 'pain', KNOWS the sensation of 'pain' is NOT 'nice', and the very Wrongly termed, "is a bad idea". This just stands for reason, and does NOT NEED explaining. This is because of what the word 'pain', itself, conjures up and refers to, EXACTLY.

4. What 'you' 'think' Nature, Itself, 'thinks' has NO ACTUALLY bearing on what is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct.

5. What creating sentient feeling creatures is for, EXACTLY, is, VERY SOON ENOUGH, about to be FULLY DISCOVERED and UNDERSTOOD by 'you', human beings.

6. Yes it is True, 'we' are nature. But until 'you' DISCOVER and UNDERSTAND who AND what the word 'we' refers to, EXACTLY, then 'you' will carry on SHARING these Truly DISTORTED, False, Wrong, AND Incorrect 'thoughts' that arise inside that body.

7. What do you mean by "if" 'we' are creating 'it'? What does the 'it' word refer to, EXACTLY, here?

8. OF COURSE 'you', individually, can STOP creating more of 'it', and IN FACT some who are as old as 'you', "dontaskme", are NOT about to create 'it' ANY MORE, AT ALL.

why should we have to go on suffering when we can choose not to,

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL that a Truly 'matured adult human being' does 'suffer' from.

Children, and other animals, are the ONLY ones who DO 'suffer', and they ONLY 'suffer' because of some thing that an adult human being has done or has caused.

So, 'you' do NOT have to "go on suffering". That is; WHEN 'you', adult human beings, STOP doing what 'you' ARE DOING, which is CAUSING 'suffering'.

by becoming more aware by simply choosing not to have more babies.

The TOTAL STUPIDITY and RIDICULOUSNESS of this SPEAKS for ITSELF.

And, I suggest to STOP using your OWN past experiences to LOOK AT and SEE the 'world' as 'it' REALLY IS, NOR use those experiences to guide 'you' to what is Right and Wrong for "yourself" NOR for "others".

I've often heard of parents in despair at the horrors that happen to their children in life, but then if they hadn't have wanted the child in the first place, the child would not have had to suffer the horror, and the parent would not have had to suffer the despair of the horror either.

The 'horror' is ONLY EVER ONLY caused OR created by an adult human being.

If, for example, if a child is struck by lightening, then this is NOT 'a horror' that happened to a child. This is just a NATURAL part of Life, and living.

The ONLY REAL 'horror' is in the thought that the parents has when they REALIZE, 'I could have done some thing to PREVENT what happened to my child'.

'you', "dontaskme", have just turned this REALIZATION into the ABSOLUTE EXTREME NOTION of TELLING EVERY human being to NEVER have children EVER AGAIN. This type of 'distorted thinking' is sometimes referred as 'black and white thinking'. In other words, do NOT LOOK AT and THINK about what CAUSES 'pain' in sentient, 'pain feeling', life forms, and STOP or PREVENT that CAUSE, let us INSTEAD just STOP ALL sentient life forms from being CREATED EVER AGAIN.

Hopefully, WHY this is 'distorted thinking' does NOT NEED to be EXPLAINED.

You talk about pain being important, but to me, it's like what is so important about creating sentient living organisms that are capable of experiencing the horror of pain, suffering and torture and abuse, when they do not have to, that's my main point.

So, your point is; asking a question.

And, to which your answer IS VERY, VERY different from what my answer IS.

Also, does your question here have absolutely ANY thing to do with 'free will', EXACTLY?

If yes, then what is 'that', EXACTLY?

[Age]

I suggest just ACCEPTING the 'things' that ARE NECESSARY, like 'pain', and AVOID, PREVENT, or STOP those 'things' that are UNNECESSARY, like 'abuse', which causes and creates UNNECESSARY 'pain', and 'suffering'.

But how can abuse be stopped..it cannot.

To answer 'the question' by finding out what 'abuse' IS, EXACTLY, then by finding out what behaviors of 'yours' are 'abusive', and then by just choosing to STOP those behaviors. That is HOW 'abuse' can be and WILL BE STOPPED.

Now to reply to 'your answer', WHY do you BELIEVE that the abuse you do can NOT be stopped?

Abuse is hard wired into our very nature of being, we are nature.

LOL
LOL
LOL

Is ALL I will say here.

Our evolutionary past shows us that we were once a ravaging animal, and that beast is still in our dna and blood to be abusive, we are still those blood thirsty creatures we were back in the days of our origins as a living sentient organism that still continues to struggle and fight to survive, even if we look a whole lot different today than we once did.

So, WHERE, EXACTLY, do 'you', "dontaskme", get this 'blood' from, to quench your thirst for 'blood'?

Today most people have to work jobs they absolutely hate doing just to put food on the table and pay the bills.

Here is ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE of how these people, in the days when this was being written, REALLY DID BELIEVE things that were OBVIOUSLY completely AND utterly False, Wrong, AND Incorrect.

It's a hard life for many people.

'Life', Itself, is Truly the MOST SIMPLEST and EASIEST 'Thing', and living is the MOST SIMPLEST and EASIEST 'thing' to do. 'you', human beings, however, make your own lives and own life hard AND complex. For NO necessary reason AT ALL other than because of your LEARNED greedy and selfish ways.

Sickness and disease is rampant in nature and will never go away.

Well sickness and disease, just like human beings are, are just a part of Nature and can also be classed as rampant in Nature, like human beings are. But these 'things' do NOT make 'life', itself, hard.

And, if ANY of these 'things' go away or not, then we will just have to WAIT and SEE.

I KNOW most of life on earth would WISH 'you', human beings, would go away, for ever.

Nothing has changed from our evolutionary past

And, what, EXACTLY is 'our' evolutionary past, and, who or what does the word 'our' here refer to, EXACTLY?

where we had to go out and kill animals with our bare hands just to survive.

You REALLY DO have absolutely NO IDEA NOR CLUE AT ALL what I was talking about, EXACTLY, here do you?

Today we farm intensively by caging huge amounts of helpless sentient feeling animals just so we can eat, not caring about their rights, or their quality of life that must be so awful and torturous, especially when it's time for them to be slaughted.

And, YET here it is 'you', "dontaskme", who CLAIMS that 'you', adult human beings, can NEVER EVER STOP caging and killing "others".

Do you REALLY expect 'us' to ACCEPT and AGREE with 'you' that this is even remotely close to thee ACTUAL Truth of things?

There seems to be no end to the abuse in this life.

And, what SEEMS to be true is NOT NECESSARILY True. As I keep TELLING 'you', human beings.

Humans are no different than any other wild animal.

Do you KNOW WHY this IS?

If no, then this is because 'you', human beings, ARE ANIMALS, OBVIOUSLY.

And, 'you' OBVIOUSLY can not NOT be what 'you' ACTUALLY ARE.

We just have labels for our actions that's all, we call something an ''abusive'' action because we know concepts. But that knowledge does not change the fundamental nature of what we are. I read a story of some monkeys seeking revenge on some dogs in India, the dogs had killed a baby monkey, and so the older monkeys grabbed the dogs and carried them to the top of high buildings and dropped them off killing the dogs. So that can be seen as a kind of abuse that nature acts out.

So, what monkeys do, 'you', human beings, 'try to' use as an EXCUSE for the OBVIOUSLY Wrong and ABUSIVE behaviors that 'you' do. Which is fair enough, considering that 'you' have the ABILITY to "reason" absolutely ANY and EVERY thing.

Humans are going to fight for territory and resources forever as long as they are alive.

And, 'I' could ALSO say and CLAIM that 'you' are going to spreading and TELLING LIES for as long as 'you' are alive also. But that would just be ANOTHER DISTORTED thought and CLAIM like you have just 'tried to' SPREAD here.

Just like every other creature has had to do to survive. We know we cannot dare go near a wild tiger or a lion or an aligator because they would rip us to shreds. They have their boundries and their own territory too. It's the same for humans, they too will start to rip each other to shreds when their resources start to become depleted through over population.

Well this is just Nature, AT WORK.

Also, WHY are 'you' TELLING 'us' these 'things'?

What I am saying is that nature is a beast and it tortures and kills itself in a bid to survive, that's all that is going on here.

So, HOW EXACTLY does thee Thing that is ETERNAL ACTUALLY "kill itself"?

It is only through extinction that the torture and abuse can stop for that particular species that has extincted. But for those that still survive the battle goes on.


.

'you', REALLY do have absolutely NO CLUE AT ALL in regards to what 'it' is that I have been SAYING, MEANING, POINTING OUT, and SHOWING. And the reason for this is you JUMP to ASSUMPTIONS, BEFORE you even consider asking 'me' for ANY CLARIFICATION AT ALL about what 'it' that I am REALLY talking about and MEANING.

But so be it. Carry on as you are. 'you' are PROVIDING PRIME EXAMPLES of what NOT TO DO. That is; if one REALLY WANTS to live in a MUCH BETTER 'world'.

[Age]

-30-

Henry, all you have to do is tell us to stop it... it's not rocket science, this is your thread and I'm sure you are quite capable of directing it as you would like to see it go, as you see fit.

Noted...Henry.

BUT it was 'you', "dontaskme", who said something about moving ALL of discussions to another thread. I am just STILL WAITING for 'you' to do so.

Do 'you' REALLY NEED to be TOLD to do some thing which you said you were going to do ANYWAY?

This is my last post here, I'll take my discussions to Age's thread. Age is the best philosopher on this forum in my opinion. Age doesn't bother about what is discussed on it's thread, anything goes as far as Age is concerned, and that's why discussions with Age are what real philosophy is all about in my opinion.

Age, I will continue our discussion over on your thread, see you there.

Okay.

Finally.

By the way, besides the VERY RARE occasion I do NOT consider the discussions that I have had in this forum as real 'philosophy' AT ALL.

But then I do use the word 'philosophy' in a VERY DIFFERENT way than most of 'you', posters', here do.

Goodbye Henry, sorry to have cramped your style and disturbed your thread. I know how some people get a bit ansty over their threads, I get it...byeee

*clicky* people make me sick anyway.

[henry quirk]

BUT it was 'you', "dontaskme", who said something about moving ALL of discussions to another thread. I am just STILL WAITING for 'you' to do so.

Do 'you' REALLY NEED to be TOLD to do some thing which you said you were going to do ANYWAY?

simply movin' to another thread wasn't dramatic enough

DAM must have her drama, don't you know

center ring, spotlight focused and hot

[Age]

BUT it was 'you', "dontaskme", who said something about moving ALL of discussions to another thread. I am just STILL WAITING for 'you' to do so.

Do 'you' REALLY NEED to be TOLD to do some thing which you said you were going to do ANYWAY?

simply movin' to another thread wasn't dramatic enough

DAM must have her drama, don't you know

center ring, spotlight focused and hot

Are 'we' ALL NOT here for the same reason of 'being heard', or maybe more Honestly, in other words, just 'wanting to be listened to? Which can only come from being in the 'spotlight', or in the 'center ring', as some would say, and as this 'wanting to be heard' phenomena is also known as?

How much 'drama' we individually put into this, or not put into this, is another matter though, and as you rightly pointed out some add more 'drama' then "others" do.

[Dontaskme]

simply movin' to another thread wasn't dramatic enough

DAM must have her drama, don't you know

center ring, spotlight focused and hot

There is no drama without an audience.

Just stop wanting to watch the drama, then you will see the actor stop wanting to play. The two characters are totally dependant on the other for a real show to have even been known to happen.

This is not rocket science, also it is wise to be assertive, rather than be just a wishy washy passive aggressive character, else your own drama will be ignored and walked all over, like it is being done by Age...who is still posting here....newsflash, if you are not going to make it very clear exactly what you want to happen with your own drama, then how is anyone supposed to know what you actually want to happen with it. I've already left, except to just pop back to remind you it takes two to tango, no actor without a watcher, and no watcher without an actor...we're all in this together, believe it or not, when the final curtain falls, we all fall, including you clown shoe.