The Existential Crisis

[Age]

So, what is 'consciousness'?

The only knowing of what is consciousness is..is that it is a word, and also any attempt to describe consciousness would also be words.

Okay, great answer.

And, the 'you', which goes by the label "dontaskme", in the days of when this is begin written, is just not YET sure of what those actual words will actually end up being, correct?

What is it made up of?

It's made up of the same IT as in ''IT's'' raining.

So, are you saying; "more words"? Or, "nothing"? Or, "I do not know"? Or, some thing else?

How does it exist?

It exists the same way a word exists.

But a word exists solely because human beings have created it. Are you suggesting that human beings created 'consciousness' also?

Who and/or what is it exactly?

it's a word.[/quote]

'Person' is a word also. But who and/or what is 'it' (the word 'person') exactly? Or, a better question might be who and/or what does the word 'consciousness' refer to exactly?

How did it come to be, and where did it come from exactly?

It comes from the word.

If this was even somewhat remotely true, then this would mean that 'consciousness' only came to be after the word was invented and made up by the 'human being'.

So, the one known as "dontaskme" purports to KNOW what the actual Truth IS,

No man, you are not listening to what I've said are you..I said the character ''dontaskme'' is known, and so that which is known cannot know anything....

But, if I am listening correctly, you are saying that 'you' cannot know anything. Is this what you are saying?

If this is not what you are saying, then it sure looks like that is what you are saying, from the words above. And, if that is not what you are saying, then what are you saying?

but will NOT clarify if that one is the One Consciousness or not.

But oh yes I did clarify that for you..I clearly stated that ALL knowing is known by the only there is which is CONSCIOUSNESS.

And, I clearly asked 'you' the one known as "dontaskme" if the one known as "dontaskme' Is Consciousness or not?

See, the one known as "dontaskme" cannot logically express things as though it knows this, and then state that it is NOT Consciousness, Itself.

But because the known "dontaskme" now says that it cannot know anything, then that would explain WHY it cannot and thus do NOT know what it is saying here is either correct or incorrect, correct?

Now, either the one known as "dontaskme" knows what it is talking about, and therefore IS Consciousness (or CONSCIOUSNESS) Itself, or, it does NOT know what it is talking about. So, which way of your "logic" are you going to go down and follow?

Also, if the character, known as "dontaskme", cannot know anything, then how did it know what the facts are,

But why are you now saying this when it is obvious the character ''dontaskme'' knows nothing?

1. I am trying to gain clarity of what you are saying, and meaning.

2. It is NOT obvious, well to me anyway, that 'you', the one known as "dontaskme" knows nothing. From what I have observed, there are some things that 'you' KNOW.

why do you then assume the character could know the facts?

Because 'you' have ALREADY PROVEN you know some of the facts.

here you are still assuming that it is the character that knows, when in fact I have repeatedly informed you that no character is NOT able to know anything.

But are even remotely aware that to make this claim, and then to repeat this claim like you are now, infers that 'you' actually BELIEVE that 'you' do know things.

It's not a ''someone'' that knows - the ''someone'' is the KNOWN that cannot be known.

But the KNOWN can be known, by the Knower.

Knowing is ONE...IT'S A VERB.

And?

and that I have not yet got the fact so called "straight" already?

This is just banter, it's a communication of consciousness with itself.

Could what 'you' be doing here be 'banter' also. Or, is 'banter' only reserved for "others"?

But Consciousness, Itself, has ALREADY been conceived, and conceived in a Truly logical, Truly sensible, AND Truly reasonable way.

Yes, but only conceived as and through the word, in this conception. Prior to which it is not known to exist.

How do you KNOW Consciousness was not known to exist before the word 'Consciousness' came into being?

What happens if you did NOT speak the english language and spoke another language? Could the 'thing', which is known as 'Consciousness' to you now be known to exist prior to learning about the english word 'Consciousness'?

That is HOW and WHY Consciousness can ask you a serious of questions, which you leave completely baffled to answer and explain. This is because 'you' still have a lot more to learn, and understand.

I've already been over this with you several times explaining and answering and giving clarification to you, but if you are too dumb to see what has been said to you, then there is nothing I can do about that...and is why WE will both continue to go through the same old endless wash cycle, as though we are both trapped inside a washing machine and cannot get out...it seems that for you and I there is NO HOPE of our discussion ever coming out in the WASH.

But because 'I' CAN KNOW things, unlike 'you', then I can KNOW that there is a HUGE amount of HOPE.

But hey ho, it is what it is...I've got nothing better to do with my time, so here I am yet again, stuck with you, again!!

Well considering 'you' only have once chance at learning and understanding about 'Life', you might as well spend as much as time as you can on this, since relatively speaking 'you' will not be around for much more longer at all. What else better could 'you' be doing than learning MORE about this One Life that you are residing and aware of, for the time being anyway?

So, to 'you', HERE in this Universe there is absolutely NO 'thing', including NO 'Universe', until some 'thing' known as a 'Knower' creates some known 'thing', which actually creates the 'Knower' in the EXACT SAME moment, as the conception, itself.

Well of course, knower and known have to exist in the exact same instantaneous moment..that knowing is who you are,

But you said 'you' cannot know anything, which would include this.

you are right here now...

But only for the split second I read that. After that split second has past 'i' am not there anymore.

as this one knowing.

Where are you proposing the 'here' is, exactly?

This oneness is everywhere at once. ONCE means one, and one means everything and nothing simultaneously.

Maybe? But if you want 'me' or "others" to FULLY grasp and understand this, then you HAVE TO be able to elaborate on this further.

Just out of curiosity, are 'you' at all able to explain HOW if there is absolutely NO thing at all, then HOW does a Knower, or a known, just appear in order to create each other?

No thing at all can only exist in relation to every thing. This knowing Oneness does not require an explanation as to how it can be, for that would be like the contents of consciousness trying to explain consciousness...it's an absurd idea.

But Consciousness CAN explain 'Consciousness', and EVERY 'thing' else for that matter, and in a very simplistic and easy way as well, if thee Truth be KNOWN.

I thought this was SO OBVIOUS a fact that it just goes 'without saying', except of course the KNOWN, Knower can and does KNOW EVERY 'thing' anyway.

Why do you think and/or feel that 'you' would 'need' to keep telling 'us', or 'you', this same thing repeatedly, which I do NOT see how any one would even disagree with, let alone would 'try' to dispute and refute?

Because discussion involves language which is knowledge on repeat, which arises on demand when that knowledge is in flow, being shared within the knowing consciousness...it's just what appears to happen, it's no big deal.

But 'that', which ALREADY KNOWS the known, can be KNOWN, by Its Self, OBVIOUSLY.

Yep, it's the only knowing there is, like I keep repeating to you.

But that is all you can do, just 'repeat'. You do NOT seem to be able to 'elaborate on', back up and support, NOR 'clarify', what 'you' say.

How do 'I' KNOW this? Because 'I' am thee Knower, Consciousness, Itself, OBVIOUSLY.

Yep, that's right.

So, if as you say there is ONLY One, then who and/or what are 'you' and 'me' who do NOT agree?

Or, maybe 'I' actually do KNOW more in regards to 'your' comments, and even 'you', that 'self', and the very reason WHY I continue to question you regards this, and other things, is just because I WANT TO?

Yep, the questions keep arising and demanding clarification because that's just what happens, because it can.

Okay great, then this SHOULD NOT worry you nor aggravate you at all, correct?

Is that with the "someone else", which 'you' continually state does NOT even exist?

Yep, the ''someone else'' is just a figment within the mind of consciousness, it's only ever self talking to itself.

But there is NO "mind of consciousness"; as the Knower, Consciousness, ALREADY KNOWS.

So, who and/or what are these TWO that are DISAGREEING?

It can only communicate to itself as and through the conceptual word...which manifests as and through the human mind brain organism, the only instrument available.

Also, just maybe I am hoping to engage with "another" in the hope of finding "another" who will question me in the same way I question them, and then together these two, so called, "sages" will discover a way to SHOW and REVEAL the underlying True message, which is within us ALL, and which is wanting to be SHARED among ALL.

If that is what is arising at the time, the energetic movement to want to express itself better with itself, aka others, then there is nothing wrong with that, but for this one here, from the perspective of the consciousness here, it has no desire to better express itself, for it has no such desire to do so, as it couldn't careless about such activity.

Well that is CLEARLY OBVIOUS for the FACT that that 'one' can NOT and will NOT elaborate on what it says nor even back up and support what it says with any actual REAL substantial 'thing'.

I am looking for those who think that they could be able to get me to contradict what I have previously said, by questioning and/or challenging me, like I do to them. Or, I am looking for those that think they can get me to NOT be able to soundly and valid explain my views in argument form, or get me to NOT be able to back up and support my views and claims.

Well good luck with that then, whatever floats your boat. I'm personally not interested in that desire, I'm just here talking to you for entertainment value only, something to do so to speak.

Okay, if this is the way you get entertainment out of the WHOLE Life in front of you, then so be it.

It's kind of a fun thing to do to be honest.

Although you all to frequently appear to get very annoyed and/or distressed by the way I question and challenge you, "just for entertainment".

But I do not care about how what I write or post is perceived or reacted to, I'm just here to entertain myself only, even if that means I am negatively attacked for being misunderstood, it makes no difference to me, for I always know what I am talking about 100% of the time anyway...so I don't really care about what others think of me or what I write about.

This has absolutely NO bearing at all on the actual FACT that you are desperately wanting to be heard, and thus are 'trying to' be better understood. Just like EVERY one else in these forums are.

Another True 'sage' would have been able to recognize and SEE this ALREADY. See, the more that I am questioned, specifically, then the more I am able to Truly explain things, specifically.

Except that no one on this forum seems to be in harmony with you, so you can't be doing a good job of explaining what you seem to think needs explaining...but I do not care about that either.

Even AFTER ALL THIS TIME 'you' still completely and utterly MISCONSTRUE what I am saying, and meaning.

OF COURSE NO one in this forum is in harmony with 'me'. If they were, then we would have NO 'need' for this forum anymore.

I am so NOT in harmony with 'you' that you can NOT even understand what these very few simple words actually mean;
the more that I am questioned, specifically, then the more I am able to Truly explain things, specifically.

This actually means I am SEEKING the 'ones' who are NOT in harmony with me. In fact the ones that are in LESS harmony with me, then the MORE that I can gain and learn FROM 'them'.

I write in ways, now, to NOT explain things, to promote questioning from those who are thee Truly OPEN and inquisitive ones.

See, people like 'you' are NOT open and inquisitive. 'You' ones just want to be heard and listened to.

Have a nice day...bye for now, until the next thrilling installment.

.

Same.

[Age]

To me, colors are seen.

Nope, colours are NOT seen.

Colours are KNOWN...and that which is KNOWN cannot see or know anything. Colours are KNOWN by the only knowing there is which is consciousness. Consciousness is NOT SEEN/KNOWN...CONSCIOUSNESS is the seeing/knowing..

But I am talking about things in the physical world.

You only like to talk about things in the conceptual world only.

Reality is a VERB...there is here only verb world that manifests as ''seeing'' and ''knowing'' ..two concepts that basically means the same ONE mysterious NOT-KNOWING known phenomena that is this immediate presence...aka awareness.

.

Which is ALREADY SEEN, and thus ALREADY KNOWN, by 'I'.

But 'you' do NOT accept this. This is because 'you' still can NOT answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly AND correctly. In fact 'you' are still unsure of who 'you' are.

[Atla]

As I said, I make my posts longer now because you told me to, "keep them short".
...
BLABLABLABLA

Unbelievable. You even think that you wasting your own time is bad for me.

No. I do NOT think any such thing AT ALL.

I am just SHOWING how 'I' am NOT controlled by 'you' AT ALL, while 'I' am REVEALING how 'I' am actually controlling 'you'.

You "control" me by wasting your time writing walls of text I don't read?

[Dontaskme]

But I am talking about things in the physical world.

No physical world has ever been seen..the physical world is KNOWN, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

You only like to talk about things in the conceptual world only.

Oh really! ..is that because The conceptual world is all that can be KNOWN, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

Reality is a VERB...there is here only verb world that manifests as ''seeing'' and ''knowing'' ..two concepts that basically means the same ONE mysterious NOT-KNOWING known phenomena that is this immediate presence...aka awareness.

.

Which is ALREADY SEEN, and thus ALREADY KNOWN, by 'I'.

Nope, no conceptually KNOWN reality has ever been seen...it's only KNOWN, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

But 'you' do NOT accept this. This is because 'you' still can NOT answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly AND correctly. In fact 'you' are still unsure of who 'you' are.

I'm sorry to hear that, I do hope you sort out this problem you appear to have, very soon for your own sake.

.

[Sculptor]

I disagree. Colours are just one sort of sensation. Throw in taste, touch, smell, sound and any emotional or intellectual state; any personal experience you care to consider. If it is not those that you are trying to make meaningful, logical, reasonable and sensible, what are you talking about?

What evidence is there that the Mind's Eye is more reliable than the optic eye? Bear in mind the optic eye of me and the Himba register exactly the same thing. It is our minds that makes particular colours invisible to us.

Well yep, I think you could get a broad consensus with this:Beyond that, nothing else you have said has elicited much agreement among the contributors.
That's an argumentum ad populum; it's a fallacy unless you want to go all conventionalist and insist that what people agree is the truth, is the truth.

I'm not sure he's worth the time.
According to science sound is vibration, principally in air, light is photons, colour is differing wavelength of those photons. What we "perceive" is not the same as those things but experiential representations of those things. Were we bats, then we could "see" the sounds as 3D objects. Were we dogs then we would see colours differently. Its pretty clear that humans see colours differently anyway. There are people who can see sounds and hear colours. All that experience is internal, but stimulated by outside factors. The "things" in themselves are not what we see.
I just do not think you can get Age to think that far.

From what 'you' have said here you are still a far way behind from understanding what I am essentially, only alluding to.

By the way, what is it exactly do you think I am saying, which does NOT fit in with what you are just saying here?

What are you saying? Who cares??

[Dontaskme]

And, the 'you', which goes by the label "dontaskme", in the days of when this is begin written, is just not YET sure of what those actual words will actually end up being, correct?

No idea what you are talking about, but the written word is always known by the only knowing there is, since it it that very knowing that the known concept is arising to, so this knowing just jolly well knows it's own knowing.

So, are you saying; "more words"? Or, "nothing"? Or, "I do not know"? Or, some thing else?

I was answering your question. How you want to interpret the answer is of no concern to me, make of it what you will, the answer is my only truth that i can share with you as you have requested.

But a word exists solely because human beings have created it.

No, human beings is a known concept, concepts don't create anything, they are the created.

Are you suggesting that human beings created 'consciousness' also?

Nope, never even mentioned the idea...that's your idea.

'Person' is a word also. But who and/or what is 'it' (the word 'person') exactly?

I've already told you...WORDS.

Or, a better question might be who and/or what does the word 'consciousness' refer to exactly?

A word, any word refers to a thing conceptually known, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

If this was even somewhat remotely true, then this would mean that 'consciousness' only came to be after the word was invented and made up by the 'human being'.

This statement is also a bunch of words strung together arising as a fictional story known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness. HERE NOW..nowhere...for there's no other place consciousness is.

But, if I am listening correctly, you are saying that 'you' cannot know anything. Is this what you are saying?

No, that is not what I am saying...I am saying the character ''dontaskme'' is known, and so that which is known cannot know anything....

If this is not what you are saying, then it sure looks like that is what you are saying, from the words above. And, if that is not what you are saying, then what are you saying?

I'm saying this...the character ''dontaskme'' is known, and so that which is known cannot know anything....

And, I clearly asked 'you' the one known as "dontaskme" if the one known as "dontaskme' Is Consciousness or not?

No you did not ask me that.

See, the one known as "dontaskme" cannot logically express things as though it knows this, and then state that it is NOT Consciousness, Itself.

Well since you don't listen to my answers to your questions you've missed out on understanding what was actually said. You once again assume it is the character that is the doer, even though I have repeatedly informed you that the character is not the doer.

But because the known "dontaskme" now says that it cannot know anything, then that would explain WHY it cannot and thus do NOT know what it is saying here is either correct or incorrect, correct?

More dribble from you, since you are yet again assuming the character dontaskme is the doer when it's not..oh yawn!

Now, either the one known as "dontaskme" knows what it is talking about, and therefore IS Consciousness (or CONSCIOUSNESS) Itself, or, it does NOT know what it is talking about. So, which way of your "logic" are you going to go down and follow?

I've already explained all this to you, but sigh, once again, you must have missed it.

1. I am trying to gain clarity of what you are saying, and meaning.

And I am giving you it...look, it's not my fault if you can't make head nor tail of it is it? ..what the heck I'm I supposed to do about that?

2. It is NOT obvious, well to me anyway, that 'you', the one known as "dontaskme" knows nothing. From what I have observed, there are some things that 'you' KNOW.

For the umpteenth million times...characters know nothing... characters are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

Because 'you' have ALREADY PROVEN you know some of the facts.

Facts are concepts known, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness, no need for proof, consciousness is it's very witness and self evidence.

But are even remotely aware that to make this claim, and then to repeat this claim like you are now, infers that 'you' actually BELIEVE that 'you' do know things.

And here we have yet again,just more conceptual stories known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

But the KNOWN can be known, by the Knower.

Nope, the known cannot be known by the known ...because the known cannot know anything. Knowing is one with itself in the moment, the knower cannot objectify itself as a known that can be known, because the known know nothing.

And?

And what?

Could what 'you' be doing here be 'banter' also. Or, is 'banter' only reserved for "others"?

Banter is just story arising here and known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness, here as the contents of consciousness.

How do you KNOW Consciousness was not known to exist before the word 'Consciousness' came into being?

The word consciousness does not exist in consciousness until that word appears in consciousness and is then known to consciousness because consciousness is the only knowing there is.

What happens if you did NOT speak the english language and spoke another language? Could the 'thing', which is known as 'Consciousness' to you now be known to exist prior to learning about the english word 'Consciousness'?

Yes the word consciousness would be known to consciousness, except that the word would just appear in another language but the knowing of the word would not have altered one bit, the word consciousness in another language would just appear as a different configuration of symbols that's all.

But because 'I' CAN KNOW things, unlike 'you', then I can KNOW that there is a HUGE amount of HOPE.

And yes, there are lots of different stories that arise in consciousness, there's mine, and theirs yours, and there's many others too.
mine might even differ to yours, or yours might even differ to mine, but it make no difference to the knowing consciousness that these stories arise in because it's all the same one consciousness dreaming differences where there are none.

Well considering 'you' only have once chance at learning and understanding about 'Life', you might as well spend as much as time as you can on this, since relatively speaking 'you' will not be around for much more longer at all. What else better could 'you' be doing than learning MORE about this One Life that you are residing and aware of, for the time being anyway?

Well there's just what's happening, that no one is doing, so it's all perfectly life living itself anyway, so nothing much a do about nothing really. There is only one life living itself anyway doeing what ever it does, including understand, learning or just about what ever arise here as this one dance of energy interacts with itself.

But you said 'you' cannot know anything, which would include this.

That's right, the character cannot know anything, and it doesn't have to, it is being known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

And now...Intermission

Be right back.....for the rest of this thrilling installment of questions and answers appearing to no one.

It's time for me to come up for some air and take a well earned breather, perhaps make a cup of tea.

[Dontaskme]

Back to the nonsense show.

you are right here now...

But only for the split second I read that. After that split second has past 'i' am not there anymore.

You can never not be here, if you could then that would be a really neat trick, not being here, and being here knowing you are not here.

Where are you proposing the 'here' is, exactly?

Here is a word known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

Maybe? But if you want 'me' or "others" to FULLY grasp and understand this, then you HAVE TO be able to elaborate on this further.

Well not really, you either grasp what I've said or you don't...there is nothing further than just right here. You cannot get further way from yourself, ..for where ever you go there you are here, always here.

But Consciousness CAN explain 'Consciousness', and EVERY 'thing' else for that matter, and in a very simplistic and easy way as well, if thee Truth be KNOWN.

Well since everything is already consciousness, yes, it is only consciousness explaining itself to itself via the use of concepts that know nothing appearing to be everything.

But that is all you can do, just 'repeat'.

Yep, that does seem to be what is happening, when the questioner arises demanding answers, it will keep on repeating those questions until it is satisfied with the answers, until then the questions will keep on repeating and repeating themselves.

You do NOT seem to be able to 'elaborate on', back up and support, NOR 'clarify', what 'you' say.

But I already know what I am saying, so I do not have to prove or back up anything at all, the story is already known and self evident to me here.

So, if as you say there is ONLY One, then who and/or what are 'you' and 'me' who do NOT agree?

Oneness.

Okay great, then this SHOULD NOT worry you nor aggravate you at all, correct?

Whether it does or not, is just an appearance arising here, it's just the play of energy appearing as it does in the moment, nothing can change how energy is manifesting itself in the instantaneous moment it is being experienced by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

But there is NO "mind of consciousness"; as the Knower, Consciousness, ALREADY KNOWS.

So, who and/or what are these TWO that are DISAGREEING?

Consciousness disagreeing or agreeing with itself of course...one appearing to be two.

Well that is CLEARLY OBVIOUS for the FACT that that 'one' can NOT and will NOT elaborate on what it says nor even back up and support what it says with any actual REAL substantial 'thing'.

Well there's clearly just what's happening, there just appearances appearing to itself in the form of words...known by the only knowing there is. Consciousness does not have to prove itself, nor back itself up, nor support itself for anything other than itself only...it's perfectly self standing.

Okay, if this is the way you get entertainment out of the WHOLE Life in front of you, then so be it.

So be it, yes, for consciousness everything is vanity and entertainment for my pleasure or pain only, the only knowing there is.

Although you all to frequently appear to get very annoyed and/or distressed by the way I question and challenge you, "just for entertainment".

Well yes, annoyance, or distress, or frustration can also arise in consciousness, the play of energy is endless in it's expression, nothing wrong with this, for it's all the play of consciousness.

This has absolutely NO bearing at all on the actual FACT that you are desperately wanting to be heard, and thus are 'trying to' be better understood. Just like EVERY one else in these forums are.

More energy at play, known by consciousness the only knowing there is. Wanting to be understood or not, it's all part of the one energetic dance of self interacting with itself self.

Even AFTER ALL THIS TIME 'you' still completely and utterly MISCONSTRUE what I am saying, and meaning.

I know, it can be so frustrating when that happens I know, don't let the bastard child that you are upset you too much, your own shadow is just trying to be your friend, really it is.

OF COURSE NO one in this forum is in harmony with 'me'. If they were, then we would have NO 'need' for this forum anymore.

But this forum is like a playground for consciousness in all it's expression. But of course, consciousness has no need for expression, but when it does, it will need something to illuminate that expression, and that thing is called a screen on which the expression is planting itself upon.

I am so NOT in harmony with 'you' that you can NOT even understand what these very few simple words actually mean;

Again, meaning is either known or it isn't, what is not known will eventually become known when that knowing arises one with the knowing, until then, no of course not.

the more that I am questioned, specifically, then the more I am able to Truly explain things, specifically.

Again, this is the play of consciousness interacting with itself.

This actually means I am SEEKING the 'ones' who are NOT in harmony with me. In fact the ones that are in LESS harmony with me, then the MORE that I can gain and learn FROM 'them'.

ok, I guess that's just what seems to be appearing to consciousness then, so what? it's just another expression, a story arising to itself.

I write in ways, now, to NOT explain things, to promote questioning from those who are thee Truly OPEN and inquisitive ones.

What fun that must be, consciousness does appear to be very creative and inquisitive making up all sorts of fun things to do with it's time, especially explaining itself to itself.

See, people like 'you' are NOT open and inquisitive. 'You' ones just want to be heard and listened to.

Oh, and here we have another conceptual story appearing in consciousness, wow, the play of energy is just so infinite in it's expression. It's open and it's not open, it's an open person one minute and it's a not open person the next, how wonderful that is can be all these things. Truly amazing...

[surreptitious57]

everything is in a constant state of motion as nothing is ever the same at any two points in space or time

Take out the words space and time and I agree with you here

For what reason would they have to be taken out ?
Is motion not impossible without space or time ?

[Age]

Unbelievable. You even think that you wasting your own time is bad for me.

No. I do NOT think any such thing AT ALL.

I am just SHOWING how 'I' am NOT controlled by 'you' AT ALL, while 'I' am REVEALING how 'I' am actually controlling 'you'.

You "control" me by wasting your time writing walls of text I don't read?

NO.

'I' control 'you' by making 'you' reply to 'me', although you supposedly do not read what I write, which by the way you OBVIOUSLY do read. As PROVEN here ONCE AGAIN.

In fact 'I' continually make 'you' do things, although you deny doing them, and then, by the way 'I' am able to control the 'you', I make 'you' provide the PROOF of what you deny even doing.

How many words I use to MAKE THIS HAPPEN is of absolutely NO issue at all, well for me anyway.

[Age]

But I am talking about things in the physical world.

No physical world has ever been seen..the physical world is KNOWN, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

As I said; 'You only like to talk about things in the conceptual world only'.

You only like to talk about things in the conceptual world only.

Oh really! ..is that because The conceptual world is all that can be KNOWN, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

NO. This is because 'you' BELIEVE that there is only the conceptual world.

Reality is a VERB...there is here only verb world that manifests as ''seeing'' and ''knowing'' ..two concepts that basically means the same ONE mysterious NOT-KNOWING known phenomena that is this immediate presence...aka awareness.

.

Which is ALREADY SEEN, and thus ALREADY KNOWN, by 'I'.

Nope, no conceptually KNOWN reality has ever been seen...it's only KNOWN, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

Okay.

But 'you' do NOT accept this. This is because 'you' still can NOT answer the question, 'Who am 'I'?' properly AND correctly. In fact 'you' are still unsure of who 'you' are.

I'm sorry to hear that, I do hope you sort out this problem you appear to have, very soon for your own sake.

.

Okay.

[Age]

I'm not sure he's worth the time.
According to science sound is vibration, principally in air, light is photons, colour is differing wavelength of those photons. What we "perceive" is not the same as those things but experiential representations of those things. Were we bats, then we could "see" the sounds as 3D objects. Were we dogs then we would see colours differently. Its pretty clear that humans see colours differently anyway. There are people who can see sounds and hear colours. All that experience is internal, but stimulated by outside factors. The "things" in themselves are not what we see.
I just do not think you can get Age to think that far.

From what 'you' have said here you are still a far way behind from understanding what I am essentially, only alluding to.

By the way, what is it exactly do you think I am saying, which does NOT fit in with what you are just saying here?

What are you saying?

In relation to 'what', EXACTLY?

Who cares??

About 'what'?

[Age]

And, the 'you', which goes by the label "dontaskme", in the days of when this is begin written, is just not YET sure of what those actual words will actually end up being, correct?

No idea what you are talking about, but the written word is always known by the only knowing there is, since it it that very knowing that the known concept is arising to, so this knowing just jolly well knows it's own knowing.

So, are you saying; "more words"? Or, "nothing"? Or, "I do not know"? Or, some thing else?

I was answering your question. How you want to interpret the answer is of no concern to me, make of it what you will, the answer is my only truth that i can share with you as you have requested.

Ah, there might be the VERY ISSUE I have in communicating with 'you', human beings.

You are just completely INCAPABLE of clarifying your own statements, and you have the interest of ZILCH in regards to HOW "others" interpret what you think, and say.

But a word exists solely because human beings have created it.

No, human beings is a known concept, concepts don't create anything, they are the created.

So, to you, the ones known as 'human beings' can NOT create absolutely ANY thing, correct?

Are you suggesting that human beings created 'consciousness' also?

Nope, never even mentioned the idea...that's your idea.

But that is NOT my idea AT ALL.

I am/was just TRYING TO clarify with you what you actually MEAN. But, you have informed me, now, that how I interpret you is of NO concern to you.

'Person' is a word also. But who and/or what is 'it' (the word 'person') exactly?

I've already told you...WORDS.

There really is NO use in me clarifying with you anymore, in order to 'try to' understand you better, is there?

Or, a better question might be who and/or what does the word 'consciousness' refer to exactly?

A word, any word refers to a thing conceptually known, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

If this was even somewhat remotely true, then this would mean that 'consciousness' only came to be after the word was invented and made up by the 'human being'.

This statement is also a bunch of words strung together arising as a fictional story known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness. HERE NOW..nowhere...for there's no other place consciousness is.

But, according to the so called "logic", formulated by the 'one' known as "dontaskme", what is being portrayed here with these words is NOT true at all, as what 'you' write is just a completely FICTIONAL STORY. As, so what you say and write has absolutely NO truth in it at all.

What you say and write is more or less just a FAIRY TALE and FICTIONAL STORY, and as such has actually NO relation at all with thee actual Truth of things.

But, if I am listening correctly, you are saying that 'you' cannot know anything. Is this what you are saying?

No, that is not what I am saying...I am saying the character ''dontaskme'' is known, and so that which is known cannot know anything....

SO, this MEANS that 'you', the one known as "dontaskme" can NOT know anything, which fits in PERFECTLY and aligns with the FACT that EVERY thing 'you' think and say is just FICTIONAL, and thus just NOT real and NOT the Truth at all.

If this is not what you are saying, then it sure looks like that is what you are saying, from the words above. And, if that is not what you are saying, then what are you saying?

I'm saying this...the character ''dontaskme'' is known, and so that which is known cannot know anything....

And, I clearly asked 'you' the one known as "dontaskme" if the one known as "dontaskme' Is Consciousness or not?

No you did not ask me that.

If you could NOT see this, then that helps explain WHY you do NOT speak the Truth, and only speak Falsely/fictionally.

See, the one known as "dontaskme" cannot logically express things as though it knows this, and then state that it is NOT Consciousness, Itself.

Well since you don't listen to my answers to your questions you've missed out on understanding what was actually said. You once again assume it is the character that is the doer, even though I have repeatedly informed you that the character is not the doer.

But I have NEVER assumed, nor even thought, the character is the doer. So, I have NEVER said any thing like this.

So, what would make you assume and say such a thing? Have you just been ASSUMING, and have NOT been listening to me?

But because the known "dontaskme" now says that it cannot know anything, then that would explain WHY it cannot and thus do NOT know what it is saying here is either correct or incorrect, correct?

More dribble from you, since you are yet again assuming the character dontaskme is the doer when it's not..oh yawn!

Just to remind those who are actually reading this, and listening, it is OBVIOUS I NEVER assumed this, and what is just as OBVIOUS is who is the one who is actually ASSUMING things here.

Also, if you are NOT going to even 'try to' CLARIFY your words, and, do NOT even care how I am interpreting your actual words, then so be it.

Now, either the one known as "dontaskme" knows what it is talking about, and therefore IS Consciousness (or CONSCIOUSNESS) Itself, or, it does NOT know what it is talking about. So, which way of your "logic" are you going to go down and follow?

I've already explained all this to you, but sigh, once again, you must have missed it.

I TOTALLY AGREE with 'you' here. I MUST OF 'missed' your alleged "explanation".

1. I am trying to gain clarity of what you are saying, and meaning.

And I am giving you it...look, it's not my fault if you can't make head nor tail of it is it? ..what the heck I'm I supposed to do about that?

Answer my specific questions, specifically, Honestly AND OPENLY.

2. It is NOT obvious, well to me anyway, that 'you', the one known as "dontaskme" knows nothing. From what I have observed, there are some things that 'you' KNOW.

For the umpteenth million times...characters know nothing... characters are known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

But I ALREADY KNOW that this is just what you say. What I am 'trying to' CLARIFY, from 'you', is HOW and WHY 'you' BELIEVE 'human beings' are NOT real things, and are just "illusionary, fictional characters" ,of SOME STORY, being made up, by some thing, which 'you', for some unknown reason, call "consciousness". Or, more correctly, then is what I WAS PREVIOUSLY 'trying to' CLARIFY.

What I WAS also wanting to get to was WHY 'you' fathom that 'human beings' can NOT create absolutely ANY thing? But, I have STOPPED this, for now.

Because 'you' have ALREADY PROVEN you know some of the facts.

Facts are concepts known, by the only knowing there is which is consciousness, no need for proof, consciousness is it's very witness and self evidence.

Oh, and by the way, Consciousness ALREADY KNOWS HOW to explain to 'you', human beings, in a very simple and very easy way, the PROOF needed to SHOW and REVEAL ALL what 'you' are LOOKING FOR and SEEKING. See, what you say can NOT be KNOWN IS ALREADY KNOWN, and can be PROVEN, very simply and very easily.

But are even remotely aware that to make this claim, and then to repeat this claim like you are now, infers that 'you' actually BELIEVE that 'you' do know things.

And here we have yet again,just more conceptual stories known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

And this is PRIME EVIDENCE of a human being claiming to KNOW things, but is completely and utterly INCAPABLE to back up and support their claims with absolutely ANY 'thing'.

This is a PRIME EXAMPLE of HOW the belief-system effects the human brain see and say things it BELIEVES is true, without needing ANY actual evidence nor proof at all.

See, once the human brain BELIEVES some thing, then absolutely NOTHING can infiltrate THAT BELIEF.

But the KNOWN can be known, by the Knower.

Nope, the known cannot be known by the known

But I NEVER said that.

...because the known cannot know anything. Knowing is one with itself in the moment, the knower cannot objectify itself as a known that can be known, because the known know nothing.

Here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of HOW a pre-existing BELIEF does NOT allow the human being to SEE nor HEAR what is OBVIOUSLY in front of them and said to them.

And?

And what?

If you have NOTHING to add to what you said, and thus can NOT explain what you said any further, then okay.

Could what 'you' be doing here be 'banter' also. Or, is 'banter' only reserved for "others"?

Banter is just story arising here and known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness, here as the contents of consciousness.

Once again, ANOTHER PRIME EXAMPLE and EVIDENCE of a human being being completely and utterly INCAPABLE of clarifying their thoughts.

How do you KNOW Consciousness was not known to exist before the word 'Consciousness' came into being?

The word consciousness does not exist in consciousness until that word appears in consciousness and is then known to consciousness because consciousness is the only knowing there is.

Is this what is 'known' as "banter" and/or "dribble"? Because this is how Consciousness sees and reads this, obvious NOT true, fictional strung together words.

What happens if you did NOT speak the english language and spoke another language? Could the 'thing', which is known as 'Consciousness' to you now be known to exist prior to learning about the english word 'Consciousness'?

Yes the word consciousness would be known to consciousness, except that the word would just appear in another language but the knowing of the word would not have altered one bit, the word consciousness in another language would just appear as a different configuration of symbols that's all.

That is only in the fictional and illusion sense, and thus NOT in any true sense, correct?

But because 'I' CAN KNOW things, unlike 'you', then I can KNOW that there is a HUGE amount of HOPE.

And yes, there are lots of different stories that arise in consciousness, there's mine, and theirs yours, and there's many others too.
mine might even differ to yours, or yours might even differ to mine,

But there could NEVER be a 'mine' and a 'yours', in "dontaskme's" view, because, to 'them', there is ONLY One?

but it make no difference to the knowing consciousness that these stories arise in because it's all the same one consciousness dreaming differences where there are none.

But Consciousness would have NO need to dream. The Knower only KNOWS. The knower therefore does NOT dream.

The ONLY dream/fictional story here are the ones made up by the VERY REAL human beings.

Well considering 'you' only have once chance at learning and understanding about 'Life', you might as well spend as much as time as you can on this, since relatively speaking 'you' will not be around for much more longer at all. What else better could 'you' be doing than learning MORE about this One Life that you are residing and aware of, for the time being anyway?

Well there's just what's happening, that no one is doing, so it's all perfectly life living itself anyway, so nothing much a do about nothing really. There is only one life living itself anyway doeing what ever it does, including understand, learning or just about what ever arise here as this one dance of energy interacts with itself.

But 'you' just through saying that ALL-OF-THIS is just a dream and just a fictional story with, so called, "characters".

Obviously, there can NOT be some 'thing' living IF this is just a fictional story.

But you said 'you' cannot know anything, which would include this.

That's right, the character cannot know anything, and it doesn't have to, it is being known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

And, Consciousness is TELLING 'you', that it is YOUR story, which is fictional AND false. But, as explained, 'you' are just NOT listening NOR seeing.

And now...Intermission

Be right back.....for the rest of this thrilling installment of questions and answers appearing to no one.

So, some times 'you' say there IS One, but, at other times 'you' say there is NO one.

It's time for me to come up for some air and take a well earned breather, perhaps make a cup of tea.

But fictional characters do NOT 'need' air, and certainly do NOT 'need' a, so called, "well earned breather". Did you forget fictional characters do NOT do any thing. They also certainly do NOT make cups of tea. This is because the known fictional character "dontaskme" is just an illusion.

Also, because "the character ''dontaskme'' is known, and so that which is known cannot know anything....", then this would logically MEAN that the character "dontaskme" would also NOT 'know' how to "make a cup of tea", OBVIOUSLY.

[Age]

Back to the nonsense show.

you are right here now...

But only for the split second I read that. After that split second has past 'i' am not there anymore.

You can never not be here, if you could then that would be a really neat trick, not being here, and being here knowing you are not here.

But you say the known can NOT know any thing, and also can NOT do any thing, which would include NOT being able to "be here".

Also, I could have said, in your own words: you are not listening to what I've said are you..

Where are you proposing the 'here' is, exactly?

Here is a word known by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

As 'I' continually say; 'I' KNOW. This is because 'I' am Consciousness, Itself, and where HERE is can be very easily and very simply explained AND understood.

Your INABILITY to explain or clarify, is NOT lost in your ABILITY to NOT know ANY thing, including what it is that you talk about.

Maybe? But if you want 'me' or "others" to FULLY grasp and understand this, then you HAVE TO be able to elaborate on this further.

Well not really, you either grasp what I've said or you don't...

And, as I just SAID and POINTED OUT, IF you want 'me' or "others" to FULLY grasp and understand what 'you' say, then you will HAVE TO be able to elaborate on that further.

there is nothing further than just right here. You cannot get further way from yourself, ..for where ever you go there you are here, always here.

A typical response from a human being who is a FOLLOWER of another human being's teachings/writings. What ANOTHER says makes somewhat sense to 'them', but when questioned or challenged about what is said to them, they are completely and utterly INCAPABLE of clarifying and/or elaborating further. This is because the actual human being teaching/indoctrinating them with their BELIEFS is also completely and utterly INCAPABLE of clarifying and/or elaborating further on what they say, BECAUSE they are still NOT 'THERE' YET. They just like to BELIEVE that they have arrived 'HERE'. But OBVIOUSLY if they can NOT YET explain things FULLY and PERFECTLY, then they are NOT 'HERE' where 'I', Consciousness, IS.

But Consciousness CAN explain 'Consciousness', and EVERY 'thing' else for that matter, and in a very simplistic and easy way as well, if thee Truth be KNOWN.

Well since everything is already consciousness, yes, it is only consciousness explaining itself to itself via the use of concepts that know nothing appearing to be everything.

But LOL 'you', human beings, DISTORT and MISCONSTRUE what Consciousness KNOWS.

The words written under the label "dontaskme" IS PROOF of this very FACT.

SEE, 'you', human beings, BELIEVE things. Whereas, 'I', Consciousness, KNOW (thee Truth of) things.

But that is all you can do, just 'repeat'.

Yep, that does seem to be what is happening, when the questioner arises demanding answers,

HERE is MORE PROOF of just HOW quickly and easily a human being MISCONSTRUES and DISTORTS things.

Just because Consciousness asks a human being a question, the human being can misconstrue and distort this in absolutely any way. Here, for example, of the human being BELIEVING that just because they are asked a question, which they are OBVIOUSLY INCAPABLE of answering, correctly, then they instantly "jump to some distorted conclusion", to distract them of the FACT that they do NOT know. This human being decided to go with the "demanding answers" conclusion.

Yet, if asked to clarify WHY they made this assumption, and BELIEVE that this is true, then they, once again, would NOT be able to clarify, and in fact would NOT BELIEVE that this is even what took place. They ARE in complete DENIAL, as will be PROVEN.

Do you SEE ALL questions as "demanding answers"?

If yes, then WHY?

But if no, then WHY that question I asked?

it will keep on repeating those questions until it is satisfied with the answers, until then the questions will keep on repeating and repeating themselves.

ANOTHER consequence of the DISHONEST and/or CLOSED human being is being EVIDENCED here. They tend to LOOK AT what "others" do, and NOT what they, themselves, do.

Even what they are doing is POINTED OUT TO THEM, they will still LOOK AT "others" and talk about what the "other" does.

You do NOT seem to be able to 'elaborate on', back up and support, NOR 'clarify', what 'you' say.

But I already know what I am saying,

I KNOW what 'you' are saying too.

so I do not have to prove or back up anything at all, the story is already known and self evident to me here.

Do 'you' forget WHERE the fictional character known as "dontaskme" has been PLACED?

'You' are in a 'philosophy' forum.

In 'philosophy' forums, when claims are made, then, because of the very nature of 'philosophy', itself, EVIDENCE and/or PROOF is necessary to back up and support those claims, either empirically, or through sound, logical reasoning and/or sound, valid arguments.

Do NOT forget who 'you' ARE, and a fictional character 'I' control 'you'. Remember, 'I', Consciousness, have ALREADY written this STORY and so ALREADY KNOW the outcome.

So, if as you say there is ONLY One, then who and/or what are 'you' and 'me' who do NOT agree?

Oneness.

LOL So, "dontaskme" says we are ALL One, but this One does NOT agree with Its Self.

Just for your information, thee One and ONLY actual True Story (thee actual Truth) IS about Unity, through AGREEMENT. This is the outcome, and HOW and WHY 'we' ALL end up living in peace and harmony.

Just maybe 'you' should just let things unfold how they are going to be anyway, no matter what 'you' do, instead of 'you' 'trying to' write this story.

Okay great, then this SHOULD NOT worry you nor aggravate you at all, correct?

Whether it does or not, is just an appearance arising here, it's just the play of energy appearing as it does in the moment, nothing can change how energy is manifesting itself in the instantaneous moment it is being experienced by the only knowing there is which is consciousness.

"I' OBVIOUSLY am controlling 'you'. So, I KNOW EXACTLY how worried and aggravated 'you' were, and are NOW.

'you' are 'trying' as hard as you can, and as desperately to write thee story, but it is just NEVER going to work. Here is a hint, if you want to write a story, then it HAS TO BE one that makes sense to one and ALL, that is EVERY one. 'your' story makes sense to NO one other than 'you'. But even then 'you' do NOT know how to make actual and FULL sense of it.

But there is NO "mind of consciousness"; as the Knower, Consciousness, ALREADY KNOWS.

So, who and/or what are these TWO that are DISAGREEING?

Consciousness disagreeing or agreeing with itself of course...one appearing to be two.

LOL AGAIN.

So, how often does that one disagree with its self? From the words you string together and the story you are forming, you appear to disagree with that 'self' far more often than it likes.

Well that is CLEARLY OBVIOUS for the FACT that that 'one' can NOT and will NOT elaborate on what it says nor even back up and support what it says with any actual REAL substantial 'thing'.

Well there's clearly just what's happening, there just appearances appearing to itself in the form of words...known by the only knowing there is. Consciousness does not have to prove itself, nor back itself up, nor support itself for anything other than itself only...it's perfectly self standing.

OF COURSE, 'I', Consciousness, does NOT have to prove any thing to thy Self. But, obviously, 'I' was NOT being talking about NOR asked.

'you' is what was being talked about. 'you' are obviously NOT Consciousness. See, because 'you' make claims on a philosophy forum, then it is 'you' who has to back up and support your claims. And, because you can NOT, then this is WHY you just keep re-repeating what you have said previously. And, also the very reason WHY 'you' 'try to' put this back onto Consciousness is so the 'shine' is TAKEN OFF 'you'. But, this will NEVER work. This is because 'I', Consciousness will always shine the light back onto 'you', human beings.

'you' want to BELIEVE that 'you' are good and that your claims are right. Therefore, it is up to 'you' to PROVE this.

And, because 'you', human beings, can NOT answer, properly and correctly, the very simple questions that I pose to you, then what you are actually PROVING is that you are no where near as 'good' and 'right' that you wish and would love to be.

Okay, if this is the way you get entertainment out of the WHOLE Life in front of you, then so be it.

So be it, yes, for consciousness everything is vanity and entertainment for my pleasure or pain only, the only knowing there is.

What? 'Vanity' and 'entertainment' is for 'you', human beings, only.

'I', Consciousness, do NOT do NOR have pleasure nor pain. This is because 'I' sit HERE-NOW totally ALWAYS contented in BLISS.

Although you all to frequently appear to get very annoyed and/or distressed by the way I question and challenge you, "just for entertainment".

Well yes, annoyance, or distress, or frustration can also arise in consciousness,

There is NO use in 'trying' SO HARD as 'you' do to be associated in the same light as Consciousness, Itself.

'you' still have a LONG WAY TO GO before you can even Truly start to be looking at Consciousness in the same way.

Consciousness does NOT feel annoyance, nor distress, nor frustration like 'you', human beings do. 'I' just observe and SEE the frustrations, et cetera that 'you' human beings feel.

the play of energy is endless in it's expression, nothing wrong with this, for it's all the play of consciousness.

And, your refusal to LOOK AT that 'self' is so OBVIOUS that it is strikingly blinding.

This has absolutely NO bearing at all on the actual FACT that you are desperately wanting to be heard, and thus are 'trying to' be better understood. Just like EVERY one else in these forums are.

More energy at play, known by consciousness the only knowing there is. Wanting to be understood or not, it's all part of the one energetic dance of self interacting with itself self.

This is because of the way 'I' am controlling 'you' by making 'you' dance, for Me. This is because the more 'you' dance and weave away from being Truly OPEN and Honest, then the MORE evidence AND prove I am making, to substantiate My claim of HOW simple and easy peace and harmony will come about for EVERY one.

Even AFTER ALL THIS TIME 'you' still completely and utterly MISCONSTRUE what I am saying, and meaning.

I know, it can be so frustrating when that happens I know,

But 'you' just claimed 'you' do NOT know anything.

Also, it is NOT frustrating at all, when I am purposely making THIS HAPPEN. When I cause this to occur in order to make the goal happen, then this is the very opposite of frustrating.

By me, NOT YET saying what it is that I want to say and express, then 'I' am controlling 'you' to MISCONSTRUE 'Me', and what 'I' say.

don't let the bastard child that you are upset you too much, your own shadow is just trying to be your friend, really it is.

If you say so. But, there is NO use is asking you to clarify or elaborate on this in any way.

OF COURSE NO one in this forum is in harmony with 'me'. If they were, then we would have NO 'need' for this forum anymore.

But this forum is like a playground for consciousness in all it's expression. But of course, consciousness has no need for expression, but when it does, it will need something to illuminate that expression, and that thing is called a screen on which the expression is planting itself upon.

This will come in handy.

I am so NOT in harmony with 'you' that you can NOT even understand what these very few simple words actually mean;

Again, meaning is either known or it isn't, what is not known will eventually become known when that knowing arises one with the knowing, until then, no of course not.

Okay.

the more that I am questioned, specifically, then the more I am able to Truly explain things, specifically.

Again, this is the play of consciousness interacting with itself.

This is 'Me', Consciousness, telling 'you', human beings, HOW 'you' can find and discover the answers, which 'you' are still looking and searching for.

This actually means I am SEEKING the 'ones' who are NOT in harmony with me. In fact the ones that are in LESS harmony with me, then the MORE that I can gain and learn FROM 'them'.

ok, I guess that's just what seems to be appearing to consciousness then, so what? it's just another expression, a story arising to itself.

AGAIN, the fictional character 'trying' its HARDEST to speak for 'I', Consciousness, the Author and Creator of 'you' the "fictional character" in the "fictional story".

SEE, the HARDER 'I' make 'you' 'try to' speak for 'Me', then the MORE EVIDENCE and PROOF I am providing to back up and support what I will eventually say.

I write in ways, now, to NOT explain things, to promote questioning from those who are thee Truly OPEN and inquisitive ones.

What fun that must be, consciousness does appear to be very creative and inquisitive making up all sorts of fun things to do with it's time, especially explaining itself to itself.

The actual Truth of this is KNOWN, SEEN, and FULLY UNDERSTOOD by the future, from the people of the days of when this is being written, readers, which, by the way, they find Truly humorous, entertaining, and ENLIGHTENING.

See, people like 'you' are NOT open and inquisitive. 'You' ones just want to be heard and listened to.

Oh, and here we have another conceptual story appearing in consciousness, wow, the play of energy is just so infinite in it's expression. It's open and it's not open, it's an open person one minute and it's a not open person the next, how wonderful that is can be all these things. Truly amazing...

But the 'it' word you used here does NOT refer to a person at all.

What is OPEN is 'I', Consciousness, and what is NOT open is 'you', assuming and/or believing human beings.

[Age]

everything is in a constant state of motion as nothing is ever the same at any two points in space or time

Take out the words space and time and I agree with you here

For what reason would they have to be taken out ?

Because of what the word 'space' and 'time' actually mean, to me.

Is motion not impossible without space or time ?

I think you MISSED the WHOLE POINT that the words 'space' and 'time' mean completely different things, to me, then they do, to you.

For the Universe to exist, the way It does, then space and motion is NEEDED. 'Time', however, is a completely other matter.

[surreptitious57]

For the Universe to exist the way It does then space and motion is NEEDED. Time however is a completely other matter

Is that because all that can ever be experienced is only within the eternal now ?
But if it is eternal it will have a temporal element to it so why cannot time exist ?