Philosophy Now Forum

Also, do some people actually think that the only reason for Ukrainian resentment towards the Russians could only be the US's meddling, otherwise they'd be one big happy family? Don't you know that Stalin largely caused the starvation of 5 million Ukrainians? That the SU annexed all of Ukraine and suppressed them culturally? Ever heard of Chernobyl?

They MADE many Ukrainians want to join the West, and then as a punishment invaded them in 2014.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:01 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 7:00 pmEurope also obviously has better tech than Russia. If we don't count the nukes then imo Europe could already beat Russia in a war and could produce an army several times stronger in the future.

Then Europe has no need for American blood or gold.

The rest of the world also had NO NEED for "united states of american" blood, nor gold, but that NEVER STOPPED 'them' previously creating wars around the world, and getting "themselves" KILLED, MAIMED, and INJURED.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:19 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:12 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:09 pm
He's your guy. He was the result of the democratic process in your country. Don't complain to me about him.

Who said I was American?

Oh? So you're now complaining about somebody else's democratic process? Is that what you want me to believe?

"atla" just ASKED you A CLARIFYING QUESTION. Why did you, AGAIN, NOT just ANSWER it?

Here 'we' can CLEARLY SEE, ONCE MORE, ANOTHER PRIME example of just HOW QUICKLY letting one's OWN ASSUMING INFLUENCE their OWN CONCLUSIONS, which they then can UNFORTUNATELY BELIEVE.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:50 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:44 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:43 pm
You mistake me for somebody else, apparently.

Or I know how to use the search function of the forum.

Apparently not. Other than pointing out the truth about the origins of the conflict, I've had nothing to say about Biden. I haven't called him a "madman," or suggested that he brought the world to and end, as you have about Trump. So I think my measured and accurate identification of the source of the conflict is in no way comparable to your rant.

LOL
LOL
LOL

'its measured and accurate identification', LOL

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:50 pm But we can dispense with all that now. Done.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 8:53 am Don't you know that Stalin largely caused the starvation of 5 million Ukrainians?

AI wrote:The Holodomor, the man-made famine that occurred in Ukraine from 1932 to 1933, resulted in the deaths of an estimated 3.5 to 7 million Ukrainians. Ukraine's population at the time was approximately 40 million, so the percentage of the population that died during the Holodomor is roughly 8-17%, depending on the exact death toll estimate used.

The Holodomor is considered by many historians and scholars to have been a result of policies enforced by the Soviet government under Joseph Stalin, and it is recognized by Ukraine and several other countries as a genocide.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:54 pm

Atla wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:52 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:50 pm
Apparently not. Other than pointing out the truth about the origins of the conflict, I've had nothing to say about Biden. I haven't called him a "madman," or suggested that he brought the world to and end, as you have about Trump. So I think my measured and accurate identification of the source of the conflict is in no way comparable to your rant.

But we can dispense with all that now. Done.

I didn't suggest either that he brought the world to an end. And it's nice of you to acknowledge that Biden isn't a madman, but that doesn't mean that Trump isn't one either.

You just can't help yourself. But what you don't get is that it's all a "you" problem. I don't care.

Who and/or what are these 'you' AND 'us', here, EXACTLY, "immanuel can".

It is ABSOLUTELY OBVIOUS that 'you', "immanuel can", COMMONLY DO THE VERY OPPOSITE thing of BEING "christian", and/or God-like, by SEEING and BELIEVING that there IS AN 'us', AND, A 'them', here, but WILL you ELABORATE and CLARIFY who, and/or what, these DIFFERENT things ARE, EXACTLY.

And, if you WILL NOT, then WHY NOT?

What are you AFRAID and SCARED OF, here, EXACTLY?

Is it that you WILL JUST END UP SHOWING and PROVING just how UNCHRISTIAN and UNGOD LIKE you REALLY ARE?

Or, is there something ELSE AT PLAY, here?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:50 pm Now, do you have anything to offer relevant to peace for Ukraine, or are you merely hear to issue spittle-flecked rants against Trump?

Have you presented ANY thing relevant to ACTUAL PEACE for "ukraine", instead of your continual RANTS ABOUT "joe biden", the "democrats", and/or "volodymyr zelenskyy" being the SOLE CREATORS of "russia" BOMBING "ukraine" in its ATTEMPT TO TAKE it OVER?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 8:50 pm Because if it's the latter, I've got something more fun to do...like shampoo my cat.

Another TYPICAL ATTEMPT AT CONDESCENSION FROM 'the one' who LAUGHINGLY CLAIMS TO BE A "christian", here.

Quotes from the man who is putting an end to America's meddling in international affairs.

Asked if he would rule out economic or military coercion to gain control of Greenland and the Panama Canal, Trump said, “I’m not gonna commit to that. No. It might be that you’ll have to do something. I can’t assure you — you’re talking about Panama and Greenland — no, I can’t assure you on either of those two.”

“I think we're going to get it… One way or another, we're going to get it.” he said of Greenland

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm

phyllo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:33 pm Why can't Trump be a madman?

It's silly. He's the elected president, and he's not leaving.

EXACTLY like the "kim family", was 'elected in', and has NOT left.

Is your "logic", here, "immanuel can" that if one was an "elected president", and does not leave, than that means that 'that one' can NOT be a so-called "madman"?

There sure is some thing 'silly', here. But, it may well be NOTHING what you are PRESUMING.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm What's the use of it? And it's boring. It has nothing to do with peace for Ukraine.

What is the use of 'what', exactly, which you claim 'it' is boring, and 'it' has nothing to do with peace for "ukraine"?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm Moreover, dubbing somebody a "madman" leaves no possible discussion to be had.

Which is more or less what you end up CAUSING anyway.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm If somebody is "mad," then there's nothing whatsoever you can do about it. So the whole topic is a discussion-killer.

you are not even capable of keeping any topic, here, alive.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm A much more profitable thing is to discuss what the major players might do now, so that no more Ukrainians die.

WHY did ANY OF 'them' HAVE TO DIE, in the beginning?

If the "united states of america" KEPT its PROMISE, 'from the beginning', then NO "Ukraine" would HAVE DIED, here.

So, 'this' LEAVES RESPONSIBILITY ON the "united states of america" TO STOP and PREVENT what it CREATED, and is CAUSING. (But, you are NOT OPEN TO 'this'. AGAIN, BECAUSE OF your 'current' BELIEFS and PRESUMPTIONS.)

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm But for some reason, people seem more enamoured of declaring the world how much they hate Trump than they do about dying Ukrainians.

'This' IS ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS coming FROM 'the one' who seems greatly enamoured of declaring to this forum how much you HATE previous "leader/s", "democrats", and the so-called "left".

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm It seems really self-important and silly to me, that people care more about railing against Trump than they do about solving the problem in Ukraine.

I wonder if 'this one' has ANY IDEA OR CLUE as to it seeming REALLY self-important and silly, to MANY, that people care about railing FOR "donald trump", "leaders", AND "billionaires", WHO are the ACTUAL ones who CAUSE and CREATE ALL of these WARS, and DEATHS, than they do about ACTUALLY NOT SUPPORTING what IS ACTUALLY Wrong, in Life.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm I think they actually imagine that we think they're "better people" if they call Trump names.

LOL
LOL
LOL

'This' COMING FROM 'the one' KNOWN FOR being one of the BIGGEST 'name callers' and CONDESCENDERS, here.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 9:54 pm But we don't. We recognize them for what they are: preening fools without any good ideas, and with no interest in the welfare of Ukraine.

AND, STRAIGHT AWAY, 'this one' GOES STRAIGHT TO 'name calling', and SHOWING its 'superiority complex', ONCE AGAIN.

Thus, ONCE MORE, PROVING just how Truly HYPOCRITICAL, and HYPERCRITICAL, 'this one' REALLY IS.

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:38 pm

Like half the world thinks that Trump a madman, it's not exactly a "me" problem. I don't think you have anything better to do btw, and healthy cats clean themselves.

I do not know what to make of Trump’s recent arrival and intense undertaking of his policies. I could post a few exclamations like “Holy crap!” or “Damn!”

And Trump definitely plays within the chaos-agent persona. But I don’t gather he is unhinged though certainly he is portrayed in that way.

But what I notice is the reaction. Up they crawl out of the sewers of opinion continuing, in essence, the same attack. The NYT’s is the AntiTrump Times. (Except a few semi-supportive articles get through).

I do not know how to characterize this immense opposition. But they do everything in their power to tear the man apart, and to describe in the most negative terms what he and his administration is doing.

Are you saying or suggesting, here, that the so-called "other side" does not do 'the same' or does not do 'the same, as much'?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 11:38 pm It is not that criticism is bad, or unnecessary, but rather that it is all “playbook”.

I do not have enough understanding of this immense power-struggle to explain it.

I wish Atla would talk more about the development of his ideas about (against) Russia. I have of course heard them all. But can you be sure that the stance that you are taking is really “right”?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:26 am

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:03 am Trump called Zelenskyy a dictator.

There is a good deal of reporting, how fair and accurate it is I remain uncertain, that presents a very different picture of Zelensky the leader. If you look tor it you will find it.

The CLAIM was DONE in front of A RECORDED audience, correct?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:26 am My sources offer the explanation that the US provoked this conflict with Russia. Is that true? Can you consider it?

Seek out a Tucker Carlson interview with a (Jewish by the way) lawyer who defends traditional Christians in Ukraine. He talks about a hidden side of things, never reported in our lovely MSM.

I recommend listening to Jeffrey Sachs. Again: another picture that is never presented.

(Myself, I am 100% against the ridiculous Gaza proposal).

you would have to be ABSOLUTELY INSANE to NOT be 0.001%, or more, AGAINST "donald trump's" "gaza" proposal.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:31 am

phyllo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 1:18 am 'If you want Peace, surrender'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq9n7umdHo0

Putin is putting us all through hell because he doesn't want to let go of power in Russia.

Does 'this' apply to others in other countries, as well?

Is, or could, "donald trump" put some you people through hell because it does NOT want to let go of power in "united states of america" and/or abroad?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:31 am It's his existential war, no one else's. The only ones benefitting from the war are Russian oligarchs who ought to have been voted out of control.

I would suggest that those in "united states of america" who design, make, and sell weapons are also benefiting from not just 'this war' but FROM the 'other wars' around the world.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:31 am They should have been voted out of power decades ago. The Russian people are not in danger. Everyone is dying on the behalf of oligarchs.

Do you think that it might be wished, in the future, that the 'current', when this is being written, voted in "oligarchs/billionaires" in the "united states of america", had been voted out of power, some time ago, as well?

I am pretty sure that there are people in "north korea" who, ALSO, wish that the 'current' "leader", and its family, had been voted out, BEFORE, it and that family became A "dictatorship".

So, the EXACT SAME thing might well be EXACTLY what was WISHED FOR, and still is BEING WISHED FOR, when the "kim" family BEGAN its DICTATORSHIP OVER A country, and its "citizens".

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:31 am Humanity is doomed.

WHY, EXACTLY?

EVERY previous human created system, and/or hierarchy, have ALL COLLAPSED, and FINISHED UP, BEFORE 'humanity', itself, EVER became DOOMED.

Also, and by the way, 'the culture/s' WHICH ACTUALLY WORK, and ARE LEADING BY EXAMPLE, are, STILL, LIVING, and EXISTING, in the days when this is being written.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 3:31 am What kind of God allows shit like this to happen?

The EXACT SAME God that KNOWS there is NO IMPATIENCE IN 'eternity', and that you human beings LEARN BEST, BY, and FROM, DOING, and MAKING, the MISTAKES that ALL of you adults CLEARLY DO.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 4:52 am did you hear that?

Trump just said Zelensky sent him a letter saying he (Zelensky) and the people of Ukraine want to accept the cease fire deal...

-Imp

And, 'we' can ALL CLEARLY TRUST what "donald trump" SAYS, and CLAIMS, right?

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:24 am I live in a European country that has a long history with Russia, not interested in writing all down how my ideas developed.

What country is that?

Alexis Jacobi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 11:22 am

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 6:24 am I live in a European country that has a long history with Russia, not interested in writing all down how my ideas developed.

What country is that?

Let's just say that for others to understand my "political" mentality I'd have to explain the combined effect of about 6-7 major factors, and the US and Russia/SU are just 2 of them.

Which reminds me. I don't really consider political and social stuff to be part of Philosophy with a capital P, but that's all that this forum is about anymore. I should waste time on something else I guess. Ah shit I have to continue refurbishing my flat. Must.. stop.. procrastinating..

Those who have a history with Russia, have a better understanding of the situation.

The US is an ocean away.