Philosophy Now Forum

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:49 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:47 pm No of course why not just have a tank, rocket granade or poison dart?

I think you definitely need a license to posess a brain.

WHY?

AND WHY did you just NOT ANSWER the QUESTION ASKED to you?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:54 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:51 pm ALSO, can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE just how Truly STUPID, IDIOTIC, and ILLOGICAL 'that' IS what you just SAID and CLAIMED here?

If you, REALLY, can NOT, then just let us KNOW, and we can SHOW you, that is; if you, REALLY, would LIKE to LEARN and SEE WHERE, and HOW, EXACTLY.

You should call Putin and explain your logic to him.

Might work.

Or, 'you' SHOULD JUST SHOOT "vladimir putin" DEAD, and then "vladimir putin's" family and followers ARE ALLOWED to SHOOT 'you' DEAD, BECAUSE 'you' STARTED 'the war' WITH "vladimir putin" and the followers and family of "vladimir putin".

And, according to 'YOUR' so-called "logic" here we will end up WITH PEACE, correct?

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:59 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:54 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:51 pm ALSO, can 'you' REALLY NOT SEE just how Truly STUPID, IDIOTIC, and ILLOGICAL 'that' IS what you just SAID and CLAIMED here?

If you, REALLY, can NOT, then just let us KNOW, and we can SHOW you, that is; if you, REALLY, would LIKE to LEARN and SEE WHERE, and HOW, EXACTLY.

You should call Putin and explain your logic to him.

Might work.

Or, 'you' SHOULD JUST SHOOT "vladimir putin" DEAD, and then "vladimir putin's" family and followers ARE ALLOWED to SHOOT 'you' DEAD, BECAUSE 'you' STARTED 'the war' WITH "vladimir putin" and the followers and family of "vladimir putin".

And, according to 'YOUR' so-called "logic" here we will end up WITH PEACE, correct?

Sounds like you have much better ideas. All of Ukraine would love to hear them.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:42 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:35 am ffs. ..and to think I respected U as 1 USAdian with a semblance of rational intelligence.

Guns have no causal affect on society..if only I could lmao.

Indeed - if only you could.

There's a gun on me right now and about 15 others in the safe.

When should I expect them to turn me into a murderer?
When should I expect them to murder me?

The social dynamics of firearms (or any tool) is the amplification of intent. Some intents should be amplified. Some intents shouldn't be amplified. That's not about guns - it's about people.

So, following on from this so-called "logic" here, because guns, themselves, have NO 'causal power', NOR ANY 'intent', AT ALL to KILL people, and ONLY people have DESIRE and/or INTENT to KILL, HARM, and/or INJURE people, then there SHOULD be MORE guns introduced into societies where people ARE, EXIST, AND LIVE, right?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:42 am Entire social institutions and societies can be hijacked to aimplify the intentions of demagogues to the point of genocide. Shall we ban all of society too?

WHY do some people GO OFF on the MOST OBSCURE and NON RELATED to the DISCUSSION tangents in order to just 'TRY TO' FIGHT or ARGUE for 'their BELIEF/S'. As SHOWN here, ONCE MORE, and AGAIN.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:42 am Philosophies are politicized and used to justify attrocities. Shall we ban philosophy?

LOL
LOL
LOL

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the WHOLE Universe that could even come CLOSE to 'justify' 'atrocities', NOR absolutely ANY of the OTHER Wrong that 'you', adult human beings, DO.

And, if ANY one thinks otherwise, then GO AHEAD and 'TRY' and BACK "yourself" ANY time, NOW.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:42 am Quantitative models are used by Wall Street to fuck over entire nations. Shall we ban Mathematics and computation?

LOL

HOW to STOP 'you', adult human beings, FROM KILLING "each other" WITH guns AND weapons, AND STOPPING 'you', FROM 'FUCKING OVER' "each other" ANY WAY IS Truly SIMPLE AND EASY. BUT, absolutely ANY time ANY one of 'you' 'TRIES TO' "justify" THE Wrong that 'you' DO, LIKE; 'TRYING TO" "justify" the OWNERSHIP of guns and weapons, then THE HARDER and MORE COMPLEX 'you' ARE MAKING 'things' FOR "your" 'self' and "others" HERE.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:42 am Your fixation on the tool instead of the tool-users is idiotic.

P.S I am not from the USA.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:06 pm

Age wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:59 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:54 pm
You should call Putin and explain your logic to him.

Might work.

Or, 'you' SHOULD JUST SHOOT "vladimir putin" DEAD, and then "vladimir putin's" family and followers ARE ALLOWED to SHOOT 'you' DEAD, BECAUSE 'you' STARTED 'the war' WITH "vladimir putin" and the followers and family of "vladimir putin".

And, according to 'YOUR' so-called "logic" here we will end up WITH PEACE, correct?

Sounds like you have much better ideas.

This IS A 100% RESOUNDING YES.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:06 pm All of Ukraine would love to hear them.

Sounds like 'you' STARTED to HEAR, and SEE, just how STUPID and IDIOTIC 'your' so-called "logic" AND CLAIM/S REALLY ARE here.

ALL of "ukraine", in the days when this is being written, is a TINY SPECK, in the scheme of 'things'.

LOOK, 'you' MADE AN ACTUAL CLAIM above here. I POINTED OUT some 'thing' IN 'your' CLAIM, and then ASKED 'you' A QUESTION.

We AWAIT 'your' ANSWER to the ACTUAL QUESTION.

Will 'you' PLEASE INFORM 'us' of HOW, EXACTLY, WHEN the so-called "starter" of 'the war' IS KILLED, then 'you' 'end up WITH PEACE'?

I have NOT OBSERVED ANY ACTUAL PROOF of 'this', WITHIN human history I will add. Will you PROVIDE ANY examples of WHEN 'this' HAS, SUPPOSEDLY, EVER HAPPENED?

If no, then WHY NOT?

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:07 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:59 pm I wat the laws AND I want the police AND I want a gun.

That gives me the best protection possible.

Why would you need a gun if nobody else has a gun

Ahhh, there’s the rub. Criminals will always have guns.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:16 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:08 am So it's simple. (and yes it would be stupid of you to provide the graph in an attempt to support your argument)

Such a graph would support no argument whatsoever. All it would tell you is the widespread adoption of a tool within a population

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:08 am Show where the rates of murder halve where ownership of dangerous weapons increases. DUH!

Yes. DUH!

It's just latency, you see.

Why wait for 20 minutes for the police to show up when you are already at the crime scene?

LOL
LOL
LOL

The ABSOLUTE NARROWED and LIMITED 'field of view' and INSIGHT CAUSED by BELIEFS is Truly BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS to WATCH, and OBSERVE.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:16 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:08 am Indeed since we are talking about guns, provide the graph that shows a reduction in murder rates where a populous has more access to weapons!!

Yeah sure.

Switzerland has higher "gun death" than UK.
Switzerland has lower murder rate than UK.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:08 am btw. Guns are > 90% for killing. So Y ban cars, maths, compootation which wern't created JUST for killing. (IDIOT).

POSIWID - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpo ... at_it_does

>90% of guns haven't killed anyone.

99.9999% of the time my guns launch projectiles at high velocity towards paper or steel targets.

What is the ACTUAL PURPOSE of you launching projectiles, at any speed, from a gun at paper or steel, EXACTLY?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:44 am

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:30 am I can't quite get away from thinking that if people didn't have guns, they couldn't kill each other with them. I know, I'm just being silly.

That's a pretty banal tautology.

Obviiously! If people didn't have X they couldn't kill each other with X.

Okay. END OF STORY TIME. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE ACTUALLY NEEDS TO BE SAID here now.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:44 am For X in {rocks, swords, bows&arrows, clubs, poisons, fire, cars, piano wires, hammers }

And if you have no tools whatsoever you can always choke; or kick them to death.

It's not like the killing started when guns showed up.

It is like 'you' really WANT TO BELIEVE that KILLING "each other" is ALWAYS going to happen, and therefore 'we' ALL SHOULD ARM "ourselves" WITH the BIGGEST and/or BEST WEAPONS possible, right?

Or, SHOULD ONLY SOME be ALLOWED to arm "themselves" WITH WEAPONS?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:50 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:45 am

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:16 am
>90% of guns haven't killed anyone.

99.9999% of the time my guns launch projectiles at high velocity towards paper or steel targets.

What's the point in doing that?

Couldn't you just play pin the tail on the donkey?

It's fun.

What's the point of fun, you ask? I don't think I can explain it to you.

SO, the ONLY 'point' of launching projectiles at paper or steel, for you, is for 'fun' ONLY?

If yes, then is 'this', REALLY, the ACTUAL Truth, ONLY?

Harbal wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:31 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:59 pm
This philosophy depends on the assumption that a laws on paper and police officers on speed dial are better alternatives to gun ownership.

How about you stop pretending it's an OR and not an AND?

I wat the laws AND I want the police AND I want a gun.

That gives me the best protection possible.

If the situation is really as bad you say, then I suppose it is understandable why a law abiding citizen would feel the need to have a gun, but then I would find it hard to understand why the streets of your cities are not constantly full of law abiding citizens demonstrating their disatisfaction with the government and police for their incapability to establish a much safer environment. That's their job, and they are obviously failing miserably at it, and it is baffling why so many are more interested in keeping their guns than they are in that problem being addressed.

I agree, but the problem is most likely money. It might require an officer on every city block and at every 100 yards throughout the US to provide safety for the law abiding citizens. Citizens want police protection but they don’t want their taxes raised to pay for it.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:54 am

attofishpi wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:52 am Ok Skeppy.

There is playground A and playground B. Both playgrounds are for 10 year old kids and they spend a year in their allotted play area.

Which out of playground A or B is likely to have more deaths?

Playground A has no guns. Playground B has every type of gun available to the kids within the playground.

Over the year Skeppy, indeed the years that these playground setups exist, which of A or B is going to have the most murders?

Your are supper confused about what it is that you are testing for.

Your scenario is testing for accidents, not murders.

How do you, supposedly, ALREADY KNOW what the so-called 'test' is 'testing for', EXACTLY, especially considering that 'you' were NOT involved in the setting up of the 'test'?

Also, IF a KILLING of "another" was ACTUALLY INTENDED, then would 'you' just write that down in the 'accident' column, and CLASS 'it' as an 'accident' ONLY?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:54 am 10 year olds are not legally capable of committing murder - they lack criminal capacity.

AGAIN, what country or society do you ACTUALLY live IN?

Does EVERY country/society have the EXACT SAME 'laws'?

If no, then in WHO'S 'world' do 10 year olds LACE 'criminal capacity'?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:40 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:39 pm Accidents. Murders. An innocent is dead just the same.

I bet you don't believe that for any other kind of accident.

What about medical accidents. Shall we ban doctors?

We can ban them from practicing medicine. Any kind of accident that causes death should be prevented in some way. Respectfully, I see that you’d have it that taking away guns isn’t the way.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:52 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:33 pm
I want a gun for the exact same reason your police carry guns.

Self-defence.

What's the fun in being born into a world where we are just innocent helpless victims of our own self-inflicted predatory nature, that the only way to solve the problem is to carry guns or knifes, or drive cars into people, and build nuclear weapons in order to protect ourselves in a self-defence kind of way is not a fun deal really is it?

Why don't we just set up special kung fu training schools for everyone who is born into this predatory world, so that everyone can learn how to become their own special trained Shaolin monk?

Kung foo is no match for kung bullet.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:01 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm I see your point—guns are tools. But are you claiming that there are people intent on murder who choose a gun as their m.o. over some other weapon on a whim? Say, for mass murder?

Nothing like that.

I am saying the category "gun death" signifies what tool was used.
This confuses people who think it signifies a causal relationship; and an implication that if the gun wasn't there the murder wouldn't have happened.

That may be true for some edge/corner cases but it's not true in general. Since in 80%+ of murders the attacker and victim know each other what actually happens is that the gun murders become knife murders.

The murder rate doesn't decrease, but the zealots are patting themselves on the back for having reduced "gun muders".

I see. Are the knife murders only so if there’s no gun available?

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:50 pm I see. Are the knife murders only so if there’s no gun available?

In crimes of passion the murderer uses whatever's on hand.

Most murders in South Africa are committed by drunk people with sharp objects. And a large portion of those "sharp objects" are broken beer bottles.

So now in certain establishments the only way to get a beer is in a plastic cup.