HUMANS DO NOT ACT, BUT REACT, SO MUCH FOR FREE WILL

[popeye1945]

I have come to realize that my idea of cognitive determinism is reactionary, as popeye1945 says. This is disturbing, but I guess this is possible.

Reality is reciprocal causation. The world and its contents as causes to the individual, the individual's reactions as causes to the world.

I agree, Popeye. I'd express the case as sapiens in a participating relationship with his environment, I mean sapiens as individuals and also as a political animal. Jori , and you yourself in earlier posts, use 'reactionary' in an odd way.

Not at all, Belinda, Cause and effect is an odd way to express reality, inferring that the process is linear when it is not. Each cause has many effects/reactions, which in turn offer many causes in the way of effects/reactions. Reality is reciprocal causation on a grand scale, embracing the whole entirely. Part to part, part to the whole, and the whole to each of its parts. It is a grand symphony where every note plays its part, and its resonance is the whole, the totality of the notes matching that of the whole, and its reality springs into being.



Mostly when we say "reactionary," we mean without enough cognitive reflection. Reactive personalities react simplistically, often as a result of unpleasant emotions. Instead of taking time and effort to understand their own motives and their environments, reactive individuals respond with fear and suspicion, which leads to fight or flight reaction.
For an example of reflective, not 'reactive', please see Gary Childress on forgiving the driver who cuts you up in traffic.
Political Reactionaries show the same mentality as reactive personalities. Fear of the other or of the new results in retreat to the good old days and occasionally in violent aggression.
[/quote]

The reaction of one's first choice is the same process and the same cause as the second, or the change of mind. The one thing an organism cannot do is NOT react to its environment because it is its environment, and its reaction is participation in its own reality. A spontaneous reaction is just as much participation in one's environment as one considered reflective. There is in our daily life only a limited number of reflective reactions, for the average person; their behaviours fall into patterns of behaviour, to much in the way of reflection is considered stressful. There must be something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction for the psyche to be triggered into reflection, and I do not believe this is entirely a human reality, just perhaps a difference in degrees. Emotional self-control is a learned discipline one most of the population requires but lacks.

[Belinda]

Reality is reciprocal causation. The world and its contents as causes to the individual, the individual's reactions as causes to the world.

I agree, Popeye. I'd express the case as sapiens in a participating relationship with his environment, I mean sapiens as individuals and also as a political animal. Jori , and you yourself in earlier posts, use 'reactionary' in an odd way.

Not at all, Belinda, Cause and effect is an odd way to express reality, inferring that the process is linear when it is not. Each cause has many effects/reactions, which in turn offer many causes in the way of effects/reactions. Reality is reciprocal causation on a grand scale, embracing the whole entirely. Part to part, part to the whole, and the whole to each of its parts. It is a grand symphony where every note plays its part, and its resonance is the whole, the totality of the notes matching that of the whole, and its reality springs into being.



Mostly when we say "reactionary," we mean without enough cognitive reflection. Reactive personalities react simplistically, often as a result of unpleasant emotions. Instead of taking time and effort to understand their own motives and their environments, reactive individuals respond with fear and suspicion, which leads to fight or flight reaction.
For an example of reflective, not 'reactive', please see Gary Childress on forgiving the driver who cuts you up in traffic.
Political Reactionaries show the same mentality as reactive personalities. Fear of the other or of the new results in retreat to the good old days and occasionally in violent aggression.

The reaction of one's first choice is the same process and the same cause as the second, or the change of mind. The one thing an organism cannot do is NOT react to its environment because it is its environment, and its reaction is participation in its own reality. A spontaneous reaction is just as much participation in one's environment as one considered reflective. There is in our daily life only a limited number of reflective reactions, for the average person; their behaviours fall into patterns of behaviour, to much in the way of reflection is considered stressful. There must be something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction for the psyche to be triggered into reflection, and I do not believe this is entirely a human reality, just perhaps a difference in degrees. Emotional self-control is a learned discipline one most of the population requires but lacks.
[/quote]
There is indeed something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction . Impulsive behaviour has its place, but even during sexual intercourse , or during the heat of heat of hand to hand fighting a person should reflect on the rightness or wrongness of what they do.

[popeye1945]

I agree, Popeye. I'd express the case as sapiens in a participating relationship with his environment, I mean sapiens as individuals and also as a political animal. Jori , and you yourself in earlier posts, use 'reactionary' in an odd way.

Not at all, Belinda, Cause and effect is an odd way to express reality, inferring that the process is linear when it is not. Each cause has many effects/reactions, which in turn offer many causes in the way of effects/reactions. Reality is reciprocal causation on a grand scale, embracing the whole entirely. Part to part, part to the whole, and the whole to each of its parts. It is a grand symphony where every note plays its part, and its resonance is the whole, the totality of the notes matching that of the whole, and its reality springs into being.



Mostly when we say "reactionary," we mean without enough cognitive reflection. Reactive personalities react simplistically, often as a result of unpleasant emotions. Instead of taking time and effort to understand their own motives and their environments, reactive individuals respond with fear and suspicion, which leads to fight or flight reaction.
For an example of reflective, not 'reactive', please see Gary Childress on forgiving the driver who cuts you up in traffic.
Political Reactionaries show the same mentality as reactive personalities. Fear of the other or of the new results in retreat to the good old days and occasionally in violent aggression.

The reaction of one's first choice is the same process and the same cause as the second, or the change of mind. The one thing an organism cannot do is NOT react to its environment because it is its environment, and its reaction is participation in its own reality. A spontaneous reaction is just as much participation in one's environment as one considered reflective. There is in our daily life only a limited number of reflective reactions, for the average person; their behaviours fall into patterns of behaviour, to much in the way of reflection is considered stressful. There must be something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction for the psyche to be triggered into reflection, and I do not believe this is entirely a human reality, just perhaps a difference in degrees. Emotional self-control is a learned discipline, one that most of the population requires but lacks.

There is indeed something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction. Impulsive behaviour has its place, but even during sexual intercourse, or during the heat of heat of hand to hand fighting a person should reflect on the rightness or wrongness of what they do.
[/quote]

I agree in both cases, but in the first, passion often overrides the ability of reflection; reflection should precede the reaction itself, and in the afterthought. Both the government and the army first program through propaganda and encourage the mindless participation of men in the military. Look at all the illegal wars America has started, with always more than enough willing men to do the government's killing, while believing their actions are righteous due to the pre-programming of both the government and the military.

[Belinda]

Not at all, Belinda, Cause and effect is an odd way to express reality, inferring that the process is linear when it is not. Each cause has many effects/reactions, which in turn offer many causes in the way of effects/reactions. Reality is reciprocal causation on a grand scale, embracing the whole entirely. Part to part, part to the whole, and the whole to each of its parts. It is a grand symphony where every note plays its part, and its resonance is the whole, the totality of the notes matching that of the whole, and its reality springs into being.



Mostly when we say "reactionary," we mean without enough cognitive reflection. Reactive personalities react simplistically, often as a result of unpleasant emotions. Instead of taking time and effort to understand their own motives and their environments, reactive individuals respond with fear and suspicion, which leads to fight or flight reaction.
For an example of reflective, not 'reactive', please see Gary Childress on forgiving the driver who cuts you up in traffic.
Political Reactionaries show the same mentality as reactive personalities. Fear of the other or of the new results in retreat to the good old days and occasionally in violent aggression.

The reaction of one's first choice is the same process and the same cause as the second, or the change of mind. The one thing an organism cannot do is NOT react to its environment because it is its environment, and its reaction is participation in its own reality. A spontaneous reaction is just as much participation in one's environment as one considered reflective. There is in our daily life only a limited number of reflective reactions, for the average person; their behaviours fall into patterns of behaviour, to much in the way of reflection is considered stressful. There must be something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction for the psyche to be triggered into reflection, and I do not believe this is entirely a human reality, just perhaps a difference in degrees. Emotional self-control is a learned discipline, one that most of the population requires but lacks.

There is indeed something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction. Impulsive behaviour has its place, but even during sexual intercourse, or during the heat of heat of hand to hand fighting a person should reflect on the rightness or wrongness of what they do.

I agree in both cases, but in the first, passion often overrides the ability of reflection; reflection should precede the reaction itself, and in the afterthought. Both the government and the army first program through propaganda and encourage the mindless participation of men in the military. Look at all the legal wars America has started, with always more than enough willing men to do the government's killing, while believing their actions are righteous due to the pre-programming of both the government and the military.
[/quote]

Deliberate brutalisation is equivalent to taking away a person's soul.

[popeye1945]

The reaction of one's first choice is the same process and the same cause as the second, or the change of mind. The one thing an organism cannot do is NOT react to its environment because it is its environment, and its reaction is participation in its own reality. A spontaneous reaction is just as much participation in one's environment as one considered reflective. There is in our daily life only a limited number of reflective reactions, for the average person; their behaviours fall into patterns of behaviour, to much in the way of reflection is considered stressful. There must be something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction for the psyche to be triggered into reflection, and I do not believe this is entirely a human reality, just perhaps a difference in degrees. Emotional self-control is a learned discipline, one that most of the population requires but lacks.

There is indeed something to lose or to gain from a reflective reaction. Impulsive behaviour has its place, but even during sexual intercourse, or during the heat of heat of hand to hand fighting a person should reflect on the rightness or wrongness of what they do.

I agree in both cases, but in the first, passion often overrides the ability of reflection; reflection should precede the reaction itself, and in the afterthought. Both the government and the army first program through propaganda and encourage the mindless participation of men in the military. Look at all the legal wars America has started, with always more than enough willing men to do the government's killing, while believing their actions are righteous due to the pre-programming of both the government and the military.

Deliberate brutalisation is equivalent to taking away a person's soul.
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. I believe governments often have psychopathic tendencies, but cloaked in self-righteousness, for example, American Exceptionalism.

[Jori]

Don't you think that reflecting about a stimulus is also reactionary, in which the reflection is the reaction to the stimulus?

[popeye1945]

Don't you think that reflecting about a stimulus is also reactionary, in which the reflection is the reaction to the stimulus?

That is simply normal. Your body is your interface with the world, and is the mind's first idea. The world and its energies alter/change your biology. This is an experience; the understanding of the experience is what provides meaning. Biology is the measure and meaning of all things. You do not experience reality; you experience your altered body as both experience and its understanding as meaning. All creatures are reactionary creatures in the sense of reciprocal causation. The larger whole is the cause of a creature's reactions, and in turn, the creature's reactions are a cause in its outer world. You are the world. My premise is that it is all reaction — both sensation and the evaluation of sensation — which produces meaning.

[Belinda]

Don't you think that reflecting about a stimulus is also reactionary, in which the reflection is the reaction to the stimulus?

You are splitting hairs.

The heuristic in question may not be the one you prefer, but it happens to be one that Popeye and I are using. It is also the heuristic that most modern psychologists use when defining the parameters of healthy mentality and behaviour. In other words
Impulsivity and reflection should be balanced by reflection. Most people can be taught during their schooldays the art of reflection.