Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

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MikeNovack
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by MikeNovack »

accelafine wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 1:20 pm He would like to go back to the time of 'noble savages', when people spent all the time tip-toeing through soft mists, making poetry and never killing anything or anyone.
There is no evidence that our species ever behaved like that.

It can seem like that, because the experience of interband conflict among hunter gatherers might seem rare. But this is not taking into account the statistics. Suppose the band suffers one warrior fatality plus one "civilian" fatality per decade. Doesn't seem like much, but the band size is only 50. What happens when you work out "what % of deaths are the result of being killed by the enemy". Surprisingly high, isn't it.

The is an argument that this has been our behavior even before we could be said to be human and that it serves an evolutionary purpose. We are a long lived, slow to reproduce species. Over our lifetime, our band could expect to encounter multiple "bad years" (drought, flood, etc.). If hostility between neighboring bands caused bands to leave space between, space not normally utilized for hunting or gathering because too dangerous, then in normal years, only a small percentage of the total land would be heavily utilized. Come the bad years, these otherwise untapped areas could be utilized, the reason normally avoided less important as your neighbor band is also scrambling for food, too busy to feud. On the other hand, if bands normally shared the habitat peacefully, there would be no space between, no normally unutilized reserve, and the result of a bad year would be massive, area wide die off.
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accelafine
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by accelafine »

MikeNovack wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 4:10 pm
accelafine wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 1:20 pm He would like to go back to the time of 'noble savages', when people spent all the time tip-toeing through soft mists, making poetry and never killing anything or anyone.
There is no evidence that our species ever behaved like that.

It can seem like that, because the experience of interband conflict among hunter gatherers might seem rare. But this is not taking into account the statistics. Suppose the band suffers one warrior fatality plus one "civilian" fatality per decade. Doesn't seem like much, but the band size is only 50. What happens when you work out "what % of deaths are the result of being killed by the enemy". Surprisingly high, isn't it.

The is an argument that this has been our behavior even before we could be said to be human and that it serves an evolutionary purpose. We are a long lived, slow to reproduce species. Over our lifetime, our band could expect to encounter multiple "bad years" (drought, flood, etc.). If hostility between neighboring bands caused bands to leave space between, space not normally utilized for hunting or gathering because too dangerous, then in normal years, only a small percentage of the total land would be heavily utilized. Come the bad years, these otherwise untapped areas could be utilized, the reason normally avoided less important as your neighbor band is also scrambling for food, too busy to feud. On the other hand, if bands normally shared the habitat peacefully, there would be no space between, no normally unutilized reserve, and the result of a bad year would be massive, area wide die off.
It's called sarcasm :roll:
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accelafine
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by accelafine »

Wokies can't cope with facts and rational arguments. They are fish in a barrel. This is why they are champions of so-called 'cancel culture', the 'we believe in free speech but we also believe in 'consequences' for free speech' mob. That's like saying there was free speech in Nazi Germany. Yes, you could say what you liked, but if you did you would be executed :roll:
It's why wokies like popeye can only cope with morons like the cross-dressing 'Belinda'.
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accelafine
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by accelafine »

You 'free plasticiners' on here do realise that once you are in the anti-Jew algorithm all you are ever going to see in your 'news' feeds is Hamas and other anti-Jew propaganda don't you? For pitys sake, learn to think (unless of course the Jew-hating algorithm is the one you have chosen and are happy with...).
Martin Peter Clarke
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Martin Peter Clarke »

mnuh
Last edited by Martin Peter Clarke on Sat Jul 26, 2025 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Martin Peter Clarke
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Martin Peter Clarke »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 2:38 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 1:41 pm
accelafine wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 1:27 pm Too stupid to even bother trying to argue with it. Wokies are truly the most detestable creatures on the planet. If that's what 'the West' has ended up with then perhaps a return to the caves is in order after all...
DUH! You're on my ignore list, put me on yours, please!
Accelafine nails her colours to the mast.

So henceforth do I .

Belinda wokey Accelafine sleepy
no no no b'linda yore uh woky wong its evva soh objektivly moral ter cum mit jenner side ter murr duh 3% of uh people bee coz thare brown and yoo fukd up so thare haa haa
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accelafine
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by accelafine »

Aah. Wokies and their brilliant counterarguments. Always a joy :|

I think the racist old fool might be trying to say that plasticinians are 'brown'. Has he even bothered to look? Some, like the one shoving the Israeli girl who was covered in blood from the region where a young female human would bleed profusely from if she had been violently raped (I wouldn't presume to make any 'assumptions' though) into the back of a truck on Oct 7 are black. Many of them are whiter than white, with blue eyes and often red hair.
Last edited by accelafine on Sun Jul 27, 2025 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
popeye1945
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by popeye1945 »

Belinda wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 2:33 pm
popeye1945 wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 1:15 pm
Belinda wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 12:52 pm
I don't "think we must go back" ! It was you who wrote "When one wishes to understand the behaviours of an individual or a nation, one needs to ask what they are reacting to." Rational people don't react, they reflect.
I am sorry if I gave the idea that reaction was necessarily mindless. There is one thing no creature can do, and that is to not to react to its environment; that is to be a part of the world. Rationality is desired but not always present; reaction is always present, whether rational or not. Reaction can be devoid of morality. In the case of empire and violent colonization, it is both of these in the embrace of the path of least resistance.

Thanks for the clarification, Popeye. I understand you used 'react' in the general sense of cause and effect. I took 'react' to refer to the psychological style that is opposed to 'reflect'.
My pleasure, Belinda

You might consider reflection a reaction as well; it has more to do with the processes of understanding. There are also biological changes in chemistry that tend to go unacknowledged. There is also a time lag between reaction preparations and the moment one becomes conscious of the will to react. So, reaction is a deeper biological process that tends to involve bodily consciousness, or compound reactions to the physical world, if you like. I wouldn't be opposed to exploring the concept of full-body consciousness, as in-depth reactions.
Martin Peter Clarke
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Martin Peter Clarke »

Is the aggression of the post-colonial/imperial China BRIC against the imperial Muslim Uighurs Western? Or the post-colonial/imperial India BRIC in imperial Muslim Kashmir? Or the eastern European Russia (to the Urals) BRIC, against its mother, Western? Or un-colonized Thailand with post-colonial Cambodia? Or post-colonial Burma's recent genocide of the imperial Muslim Rohingya, or the un-colonized imperial Muslim Turkey BRICS' century of war against the imperial Muslim Kurds? One can argue that all of these regimes are 'beneficiaries' of Western civilization in their ideologies; at a push you can blame Eastern Christianity and call it Western because it came from Greece, i.e. Europe, further east in to BRICS Russia. Which Germany infected with revolutionary 'Western' Marxism. BRICS India has parliamentary democracy due to British colonialism. BRICS Brazil, aggressively destroying Amazonia, is of course a vaguely Western colony. As is Israel.

All BRICS nations are not as advanced democratically as Western ones, none is as plural even though they are more economically advanced than mainly imperialist, Western nations were where pluralism arose. They never will be.

With the minority exception of Israel, the greatest aggression is being perpetrated by BRICS by orders of magnitude.
Martin Peter Clarke
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Martin Peter Clarke »

To the OP, I'd invert it.

Gaza Crisis: Are we morally right?

Thank Christ I can't see accelafine's rabid theodicy as only other Foes now respond to it.
popeye1945
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by popeye1945 »

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 9:59 am To the OP, I'd invert it.

Gaza Crisis: Are we morally right?

Thank Christ I can't see accelafine's rabid theodicy as only other Foes now respond to it.
Martin,

Do you consider America a democracy? I know it calls itself one. What I am asking is, do you believe it is a democracy?
Belinda
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Belinda »

accelafine wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 8:01 pm Wokies can't cope with facts and rational arguments. They are fish in a barrel. This is why they are champions of so-called 'cancel culture', the 'we believe in free speech but we also believe in 'consequences' for free speech' mob. That's like saying there was free speech in Nazi Germany. Yes, you could say what you liked, but if you did you would be executed :roll:
It's why wokies like popeye can only cope with morons like the cross-dressing 'Belinda'.
I am too sartorially liberal to be a cross dresser.
Martin Peter Clarke
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Martin Peter Clarke »

Belinda wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 12:25 pm
accelafine wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 8:01 pm Wokies can't cope with facts and rational arguments. They are fish in a barrel. This is why they are champions of so-called 'cancel culture', the 'we believe in free speech but we also believe in 'consequences' for free speech' mob. That's like saying there was free speech in Nazi Germany. Yes, you could say what you liked, but if you did you would be executed :roll:
It's why wokies like popeye can only cope with morons like the cross-dressing 'Belinda'.
I am too sartorially liberal to be a cross dresser.
I thought you'd Foed it?!
Belinda
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Belinda »

Martin Peter Clarke wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 1:10 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 12:25 pm
accelafine wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 8:01 pm Wokies can't cope with facts and rational arguments. They are fish in a barrel. This is why they are champions of so-called 'cancel culture', the 'we believe in free speech but we also believe in 'consequences' for free speech' mob. That's like saying there was free speech in Nazi Germany. Yes, you could say what you liked, but if you did you would be executed :roll:
It's why wokies like popeye can only cope with morons like the cross-dressing 'Belinda'.
I am too sartorially liberal to be a cross dresser.
I thought you'd Foed it?!
Yes I did but my curiosity gets the the better of me. There is just enough reward in it to keep me coming back.
Martin Peter Clarke
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Re: Gaza Crisis: Are we morally wrong?

Post by Martin Peter Clarke »

Belinda wrote: Mon Jul 28, 2025 10:57 am
Martin Peter Clarke wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 1:10 pm
Belinda wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 12:25 pm
I am too sartorially liberal to be a cross dresser.
I thought you'd Foed it?!
Yes I did but my curiosity gets the the better of me. There is just enough reward in it to keep me coming back.
: ) now I'm a morally and intellectually inferior being, with no will power at all, but I have NEVER deliberately looked at any Foe's comment. Occasionally I have to log in, and see a comment before I do. It obviously gives me immense satisfaction not to feed the trolls or kick cornered shit house rats with me boot without bicycle clips.
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