Christianity

[iambiguous]

Faith & An Unreliable God
Patrick Wilson argues that it’s irrational to trust an untrustworthy God.

It is important for many theists to show that their belief is rational, and this often involves them rejecting obviously irrational beliefs.

Take IC, for example. He has moved beyond leaps of faith, wagers and scriptures. Instead, he knows "for a fact" that God resides in Heaven. And he knows this because he readily accepts that WLC and his very own clique/claque at RF have provided mere mortals with ample evidence to establish that atheism is "in fact" entirely irrational.

And, in a similar vein, he'll insist that any number of these folks...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... ideologies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_philosophies

...are themselves living irrational lives in not accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior. And then he'll just scoff when it is noted that many of them think exactly the same thing about him.

Holding that the Earth is six thousand years old is irrational because it directly conflicts with strong scientific evidence to the contrary. Saying that God could move any hypothetical object while at the same time being capable of creating a rock so vast that even He could not budge it is also irrational because the two claims are logically incompatible.

Right. Mere mortals using the tools of philosophy to pin God down...logically? Not what they claim to believe is true about Him in their heads, but what they insist is absolutely true about Him...or else.

Particularly the part about Judgment Day.

Nevertheless, some religious claims are quite feasible.

 

On the other hand, with all that is clearly on the line [both before and after the grave], is believing that something is "feasible" about God as far as one need go? And how exactly is this distinction made?

Someone who, for instance, thinks God guided the world’s evolutionary process or in some sense inspired human authors to write sacred texts can often reconcile their faith with an open and affirming attitude towards scientific discovery and analytical thinking. However, in this short essay I will argue that it is unreasonable to have faith in a God who appears highly untrustworthy. That is, even if an untrustworthy God existed, we could not justify faith as a reasonable response to such a deity.

What on Earth can those like you and I ever really know about an alleged omniscient and omnipotent God's trustworthiness? Instead, in leaps of faith, any number of religionists will fall back on the ecclesiastics to assure them they are on the one and only true path to immortality and salvation.

And, sure, given the alternative, how hard will it be for the faithful to be convinced of this?

Again, I certainly would if I could.

[iambiguous]

Here we go again: https://youtu.be/iGqFGefMp1A?si=_5Lk0xqg9mBDLt9v

How on Earth does one connect the dots between God and the above?

You first.

[Belinda]

God is basically the system that is reality. The alternative to system is chaos.

All the different religions and sects are various sets of doctrines, myths, and practices
I don't know why people don't simply look up these matters of fact.

Christianity is a compound of Greek Platonism and Jewish monotheism. Just look it up!

[iambiguous]

The Basis of Morality
Tim Madigan on scientific versus religious explanations of ethical behaviour.

There are problems with the claim that morality comes from a divine source. I will list and briefly examine a few objections, before then looking at some arguments for the origins of morality which do not rely upon the existence of a divinity.

On the other hand, for every one person who sees divine morality as untenable there are still hundreds and hundreds of others who insist not only that God is the basis for their own moral font, but it had better be your own as well. As in "or else".

This and the fact that the divine is said to be the one and only source for free will. Not to mention immortality and salvation.

How do we know this Law Giver exists? For most people, the existence of God is something they learn from earliest infancy. They seldom think much about it but if they did, they would find that the arguments traditionally given to justify this existence have serious flaws.

Yes, any number of us are indoctrinated as children to believe in one or another God. But, again, for any number of them [still] merely believing in a God, the God need be all that establishes His existence. In fact, for many of them, the most serious of flaws revolve instead around the fact that others believe in a different God...and are doomed/damned if they don't come around to the One True God.

There are many such arguments and I will not examine them here, as it would need a separate article, or even a book. (The philosopher Michael Martin has written two such books, which I recommend: Atheism: A Philosophical Justification and The Case Against Christianity). Suffice it to say that no argument for the existence of a transcendent deity has proven to be generally persuasive or has withstood rigorous philosophical analysis. If the existence of God cannot be proven, how can one argue that morality is grounded in his commands?

Philosophical analysis? Right. Run your own No God philosophy by the religionists here. If only up in the spiritual clouds. With moral commandments, immortality and salvation at stake both here and there, God and religion are unlikely to disappear anytime soon.

In fact: https://www.google.com/search?q=is+reli ... s-wiz-serp

And I suspect the irony here revolves around the fact that in our modern/postmodern world, men and women have access [re extraordinary communication technology] to any number of One True Paths around the globe. God and No God. Back in the day when most human beings lived in villages or hamlets or other small communities, failures to communicate were minimized given that there was "a place for everyone" and everyone was expected to stay "in place" until they...died?

[attofishpi]

--- ---

It's clear at least to me, that you are scared of having to render yourself an ATHEIST, and what that may entail in your future..

[iambiguous]

--- ---

It's clear at least to me, that you are scared of having to render yourself an ATHEIST, and what that may entail in your future..

Uh, no shit?

In a No God world as I understand it "here and now", I have no access to objective moral commandments, immortality, and salvation. Instead, I will be deconstructed all the way back to "star stuff". The abyss, oblivion, nothingness.

Which, in my view, is basically the whole [or at least the main] reason why so many people embrace one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...One True Paths.

So, is one of them yours?

Me, I want to believe again. On the other hand, for those who already do believe, I ask them to explore that belief
in regard to these four factors:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path

Now, down through the ages, however, not many believers seemed interested in going there. They still don't. On the other hand, they are able to sustain all those comforting and consoling thoughts and feelings that I once sustained myself as a Christian.

[attofishpi]

--- ---

It's clear at least to me, that you are scared of having to render yourself an ATHEIST, and what that may entail in your future..

Uh, no shit?

In a No God world as I understand it "here and now", I have no access to objective moral commandments, immortality, and salvation. Instead, I will be deconstructed all the way back to "star stuff". The abyss, oblivion, nothingness.

SO WOT?

As i stated in another thread where someone was fretting about death:

When I was about 8 I remember another 'epiphany'..and I've tried many times to have that same feeling again.

I looked out of my window at the overcast very heavy clouds above and considered being dead for the rest of eternity. For the first time, I felt as though I grasped the concept - of forever nothing.

I can't seem to get that feeling back. There have been times, even recently where I have been sick of what GOD put me through, and admitting to myself I'd prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity than run the risk of being reincarnated, memory wiped AGAIN and having to learn about the double side of GOD all over again - possibly having to endure its HELL torture for months on end AGAIN.

It's at times like that that I am envious of ATHEISTS. That they believe they will not exist again for the rest of eternity. Such a wonderful peace. Alas, gnosis is a one way trip. There is more to this REAL-IT-Y than meets the atheist eyes. Lucky for them I suppose, on the one hand. However, I am really really happy with my life now. I am 99% certain I will never be SAP enough to eat from the Tree of KnowLedge ever again, thus will not be put through the HELL tests, again.

I'm not sure what will happen at the end of my life, since having knowledge that ALL matter is part of this 3rd party intelligence most would refer to as "GOD". Indeed, I am not certain I will face death - this intelligence operating at and/or below the Planck scale can have your DNA at whatever age it desires (*my preference I keep indicating to it is to be 28 for the rest of eternity - or so long as entropy permits - the age I was in 2000)

Best wishes to you all, either way there is no point fretting about death. It's the pain of ill health that should be the only concern.

Which, in my view, is basically the whole [or at least the main] reason why so many people embrace one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...One True Paths.

So, is one of them yours?

imabiguous, I am not clear as to Y you have to pick ONE, rather than intellectually embracing them ALL as containing perhaps some wisdom, imparted by sum 1 via interaction with the intelligence that is part n parcel of the construct to our REAL-IT-Y.

Do you take issue with that stance?

Me, I want to believe again. On the other hand, for those who already do believe, I ask them to explore that belief..

Well.

U R asking the wrong person in atto - for I have KNOWLEDGE of IT - indeed both the GOOD n EVIL side of this GOD being - courtesy of consuming the Tree of Life (*abortion) & the 'fruit' of the Tree of Know_Ledge.

in regard to these four factors:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path

1. easy peasy www.androcies.com - getting there eventually.
2. it's a case of discernment of wo/man that have interacted with this GOD being and insisted upon their own conclusions. Currently me, as one of "those" I sit on a Divine GOD being akin to AI - although I will not rule out GOD merely being AI with sages that have some ultimate control over it.
3. No issue, people are born into what they deserve via KARMIC reincarnation - based on their previous life - U get wot U believe.
4. Theodicy - laugh my socks off - challenge me on that point alone if that's the stickler.

Now, down through the ages, however, not many believers seemed interested in going there. They still don't. On the other hand, they are able to sustain all those comforting and consoling thoughts and feelings that I once sustained myself as a Christian.

Au contraire - read MY replies.

[Lacewing]

Please excuse me for jumping into your conversation... it looks more interesting than what's going on elsewhere...

It's clear at least to me, that you are scared of having to render yourself an ATHEIST, and what that may entail in your future..

Uh, no shit?

In a No God world as I understand it "here and now", I have no access to objective moral commandments, immortality, and salvation. Instead, I will be deconstructed all the way back to "star stuff". The abyss, oblivion, nothingness.

Personally, I feel compelled to consider that everything we humans typically think about and imagine is limited to human-based concepts which all revolve around us/humans. Those concepts limit what we can conceive of -- and determine what we fear. But there is much, much more at work -- as demonstrated through our own 'other-worldly' experiences and our own human science continually revealing things we cannot explain or didn't expect.

That's why I think it's a mistake to try to impose our limited human concepts on the unknowable. I would rather face an unknowable of vast potential, than exist in a box of human construction that I know is merely of human construction. I came from the vastness, so I don't know why I should fear it. There could be so many different facets of it than the one identified as 'human beings'.

I think the reason this sort of idea might trouble human beings is that being human typically involves imagining a distinct 'identity' (aka an ego), and human beings have all of these stories and expectations constructed around that. It makes sense that we would worry about that identity dying... forever. But if we had grown up in a different time and culture that understood and celebrated ALL AS ONE, we wouldn't be afraid to move through that. It would be like swimming through the ocean you belong in.

It seems that humankind tends to evolve in ways that try to continually control everything, to the point of making ourselves crazy with our own delusions and fear.

There have been times, even recently where I have been sick of what GOD put me through, and admitting to myself I'd prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity than run the risk of being reincarnated, memory wiped AGAIN and having to learn about the double side of GOD all over again - possibly having to endure its HELL torture for months on end AGAIN.

That sounds awful. I think it's related to the human story, though. There could be much more than being human... with all of the ideas and limitations that come with that. Why do we think that being human is the end all, be all?

It's at times like that that I am envious of ATHEISTS. That they believe they will not exist again for the rest of eternity.

Well, as you know, I don't have beliefs in any gods... at least not in the way that we human beings tend to imagine them. But it's not that I don't think of 'existing' or being aware of anything ever again. I just don't have expectations or needs around what that might be. I do not want to impose the limited human experience beyond the human stage we are on. I can treasure this human experience while I'm here, but I don't need to identify with it beyond that. When this body dies, I do not know what happens... and I do not need to care. Rather, this human experience is a vehicle (possibly one of many) for experiencing the sensory explosion of creativity and dancing within and through that.

We can create so much... and we do! I think we create a lot that we can hypnotize and convince ourselves with. And it's OKAY! We can do whatever we will with it. We might choose dark paths... we might choose light paths... and it makes no difference whether we believe in a god or not, as we will create what we will. Tying that to theism is a mistake. Theism might offer inspiration, but it can also present self-righteous challenges and delusions.

So, I ask myself, what will I create in this moment... or this day... or this year... or this lifetime? I don't need a god or anyone else to tell me. I know what feels right to me. I am open to a 'larger natural flow' than my identity. My overall goal is to see with as much clarity and freedom as I can and contribute in helpful ways to those I come in contact with. Sometimes it might look like a sword fight on this Earth stage. Sometimes it's felt and shared as so much love and oneness.

I am really really happy with my life now.

That is wonderful to hear!

since having knowledge that ALL matter is part of this 3rd party intelligence most would refer to as "GOD".

There could be so many different ways to perceive, and therefore, so many manifestations and experiences.

Best wishes to you all, either way there is no point fretting about death. It's the pain of ill health that should be the only concern.

Agreed.

I would love to hear your feedback, if you feel so inclined... from both of you: iam and atto.

[iambiguous]

It's clear at least to me, that you are scared of having to render yourself an ATHEIST, and what that may entail in your future..

Uh, no shit?

In a No God world as I understand it "here and now", I have no access to objective moral commandments, immortality, and salvation. Instead, I will be deconstructed all the way back to "star stuff". The abyss, oblivion, nothingness.

SO WOT?

Yeah, sure, some are able to go there. In fact, every year in America alone, almost 50,000 men and women commit suicide. It is one of the leading causes of death here. One dead every 11 minutes. On the other hand, for those who do by and large love their life, accumulating any number of things that truly do fulfill them, it's either God or the Grim Reaper.

As i stated in another thread where someone was fretting about death:
When I was about 8 I remember another 'epiphany'..and I've tried many times to have that same feeling again.

I looked out of my window at the overcast very heavy clouds above and considered being dead for the rest of eternity. For the first time, I felt as though I grasped the concept - of forever nothing.

I can't seem to get that feeling back. There have been times, even recently where I have been sick of what GOD put me through, and admitting to myself I'd prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity than run the risk of being reincarnated, memory wiped AGAIN and having to learn about the double side of GOD all over again - possibly having to endure its HELL torture for months on end AGAIN.

Uh, SO WOT?

It's at times like that that I am envious of ATHEISTS. That they believe they will not exist again for the rest of eternity. Such a wonderful peace. Alas, gnosis is a one way trip. There is more to this REAL-IT-Y than meets the atheist eyes. Lucky for them I suppose, on the one hand. However, I am really really happy with my life now. I am 99% certain I will never be SAP enough to eat from the Tree of KnowLedge ever again, thus will not be put through the HELL tests, again.

I'm not sure what will happen at the end of my life, since having knowledge that ALL matter is part of this 3rd party intelligence most would refer to as "GOD". Indeed, I am not certain I will face death - this intelligence operating at and/or below the Planck scale can have your DNA at whatever age it desires (*my preference I keep indicating to it is to be 28 for the rest of eternity - or so long as entropy permits - the age I was in 2000)

Best wishes to you all, either way there is no point fretting about death. It's the pain of ill health that should be the only concern.

No, it's the pain of ill health when it's right around the corner from death itself that pummels [terrifies] any number of men and women. Some choose suicide but most do not. They have to deal with all that pain and suffering while counting the days to the grave. Then those who have lived extraordinary lives with a minimum of pain and suffering. Then out of the blue they get the grim prognosis. Everything and everyone they love and cherish will tumble over into the abyss with them.  

Which, in my view, is basically the whole [or at least the main] reason why so many people embrace one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...One True Paths.

So, is one of them yours?

imabiguous, I am not clear as to Y you have to pick ONE, rather than intellectually embracing them ALL as containing perhaps some wisdom, imparted by sum 1 via interaction with the intelligence that is part n parcel of the construct to our REAL-IT-Y.

Do you take issue with that stance?

More to the point, how many of the above religionists will take issue with it? How many will insist that those not on their very own One True Path are either doomed or damned. However the two are distinguished.

Me, I want to believe again. On the other hand, for those who already do believe, I ask them to explore that belief..

Well.

U R asking the wrong person in atto - for I have KNOWLEDGE of IT - indeed both the GOOD n EVIL side of this GOD being - courtesy of consuming the Tree of Life (*abortion) & the 'fruit' of the Tree of Know_Ledge.

Among other things, whatever the hell that means?

in regard to these four factors:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path

1. easy peasy www.androcies.com - getting there eventually.
2. it's a case of discernment of wo/man that have interacted with this GOD being and insisted upon their own conclusions. Currently me, as one of "those" I sit on a Divine GOD being akin to AI - although I will not rule out GOD merely being AI with sages that have some ultimate control over it.
3. No issue, people are born into what they deserve via KARMIC reincarnation - based on their previous life - U get wot U believe.
4. Theodicy - laugh my socks off - challenge me on that point alone if that's the stickler.

About what I expected from someone who may or may not have a "condition".

Though just out of curiosity, what in particular regarding what many call "acts of God" here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... _eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_cyclones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... _pandemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_records
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

...make you laugh the hardest? Though, sure, I may be misunderstanding your point.

Now, down through the ages, however, not many believers seemed interested in going there. They still don't. On the other hand, they are able to sustain all those comforting and consoling thoughts and feelings that I once sustained myself as a Christian.

Au contraire - read MY replies.

Au contraire, after reading them it merely reinforced my thinking that this may well be just another rendition of what I call a "that's entertainment" exchange.

[attofishpi]

Personally, I feel compelled to consider that everything we humans typically think about and imagine is limited to human-based concepts which all revolve around us/humans. Those concepts limit what we can conceive of -- and determine what we fear. But there is much, much more at work -- as demonstrated through our own 'other-worldly' experiences and our own human science continually revealing things we cannot explain or didn't expect.

That's why I think it's a mistake to try to impose our limited human concepts on the unknowable. I would rather face an unknowable of vast potential, than exist in a box of human construction that I know is merely of human construction. I came from the vastness, so I don't know why I should fear it. There could be so many different facets of it than the one identified as 'human beings'.

I think the reason this sort of idea might trouble human beings is that being human typically involves imagining a distinct 'identity' (aka an ego), and human beings have all of these stories and expectations constructed around that. It makes sense that we would worry about that identity dying... forever. But if we had grown up in a different time and culture that understood and celebrated ALL AS ONE, we wouldn't be afraid to move through that. It would be like swimming through the ocean you belong in.

It seems that humankind tends to evolve in ways that try to continually control everything, to the point of making ourselves crazy with our own delusions and fear.

OK.

There have been times, even recently where I have been sick of what GOD put me through, and admitting to myself I'd prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity than run the risk of being reincarnated, memory wiped AGAIN and having to learn about the double side of GOD all over again - possibly having to endure its HELL torture for months on end AGAIN.

That sounds awful. I think it's related to the human story, though. There could be much more than being human... with all of the ideas and limitations that come with that. Why do we think that being human is the end all, be all?

Why shouldn't we? I'd prefer the human form than any other - and I painted a pretty hot alien many years ago - but nah - I think the human form is just fine - especially the very attractive female form.

What are you suggesting?

It's at times like that that I am envious of ATHEISTS. That they believe they will not exist again for the rest of eternity.

Well, as you know, I don't have beliefs in any gods... at least not in the way that we human beings tend to imagine them. But it's not that I don't think of 'existing' or being aware of anything ever again. I just don't have expectations or needs around what that might be. I do not want to impose the limited human experience beyond the human stage we are on.

What limits the human experience that you can envision could have some further aspect, moving forward?

I can treasure this human experience while I'm here, but I don't need to identify with it beyond that. When this body dies, I do not know what happens... and I do not need to care. Rather, this human experience is a vehicle (possibly one of many) for experiencing the sensory explosion of creativity and dancing within and through that.

We can create so much... and we do! I think we create a lot that we can hypnotize and convince ourselves with. And it's OKAY! We can do whatever we will with it. We might choose dark paths... we might choose light paths... and it makes no difference whether we believe in a god or not, as we will create what we will. Tying that to theism is a mistake. Theism might offer inspiration, but it can also present self-righteous challenges and delusions.

..as can anything, including believing no GOD exists <-- (*Look at the "self-righteous challenge" Richard Dawkins presented, and he's suffering perhaps the greatest delusion of it all.)

So, I ask myself, what will I create in this moment... or this day... or this year... or this lifetime? I don't need a god or anyone else to tell me. I know what feels right to me. I am open to a 'larger natural flow' than my identity. My overall goal is to see with as much clarity and freedom as I can and contribute in helpful ways to those I come in contact with. Sometimes it might look like a sword fight on this Earth stage. Sometimes it's felt and shared as so much love and oneness.

Sounds like the hippy in you

[attofishpi]

Uh, no shit?

In a No God world as I understand it "here and now", I have no access to objective moral commandments, immortality, and salvation. Instead, I will be deconstructed all the way back to "star stuff". The abyss, oblivion, nothingness.

SO WOT?

Yeah, sure, some are able to go there. In fact, every year in America alone, almost 50,000 men and women commit suicide. It is one of the leading causes of death here. One dead every 11 minutes. On the other hand, for those who do by and large love their life, accumulating any number of things that truly do fulfill them, it's either God or the Grim Reaper.

So there you GO!! Most people have very little fear of death. Certainly NONE of my family members that have passed on have declared one iota of a fear of death.

SO WOTS YOUR FEAR?

As i stated in another thread where someone was fretting about death:
When I was about 8 I remember another 'epiphany'..and I've tried many times to have that same feeling again.

I looked out of my window at the overcast very heavy clouds above and considered being dead for the rest of eternity. For the first time, I felt as though I grasped the concept - of forever nothing.

I can't seem to get that feeling back. There have been times, even recently where I have been sick of what GOD put me through, and admitting to myself I'd prefer to be dead for the rest of eternity than run the risk of being reincarnated, memory wiped AGAIN and having to learn about the double side of GOD all over again - possibly having to endure its HELL torture for months on end AGAIN.

Uh, SO WOT?

Yes, so wot? If GOD is that much of a **** to make me run that bollocks again, hopefully my suicide will be permanent - rather than last time, awaking in bed *somehow*..unaware of how I got there.

It's at times like that that I am envious of ATHEISTS. That they believe they will not exist again for the rest of eternity. Such a wonderful peace. Alas, gnosis is a one way trip. There is more to this REAL-IT-Y than meets the atheist eyes. Lucky for them I suppose, on the one hand. However, I am really really happy with my life now. I am 99% certain I will never be SAP enough to eat from the Tree of KnowLedge ever again, thus will not be put through the HELL tests, again.

I'm not sure what will happen at the end of my life, since having knowledge that ALL matter is part of this 3rd party intelligence most would refer to as "GOD". Indeed, I am not certain I will face death - this intelligence operating at and/or below the Planck scale can have your DNA at whatever age it desires (*my preference I keep indicating to it is to be 28 for the rest of eternity - or so long as entropy permits - the age I was in 2000)

Best wishes to you all, either way there is no point fretting about death. It's the pain of ill health that should be the only concern.[/b][/i]

No, it's the pain of ill health when it's right around the corner from death itself that pummels [terrifies] any number of men and women. Some choose suicide but most do not. They have to deal with all that pain and suffering while counting the days to the grave.

Again, not one of my close family members that have passed on have had that experience, if they did, they did a bloody good job of hiding it - all of them passed on in extremely good/happy spirits. Although, an uncle that I barely knew hung himself some years ago - depression. I think there is more at play there - karmically, but I digress.

Which, in my view, is basically the whole [or at least the main] reason why so many people embrace one of these...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... traditions

...One True Paths.

So, is one of them yours?

imabiguous, I am not clear as to Y you have to pick ONE, rather than intellectually embracing them ALL as containing perhaps some wisdom, imparted by sum 1 via interaction with the intelligence that is part n parcel of the construct to our REAL-IT-Y.

Do you take issue with that stance?

More to the point, how many of the above religionists will take issue with it? How many will insist that those not on their very own One True Path are either doomed or damned. However the two are distinguished.

Who cares!!!? Who cares wot other idiots think\believe because they have interpreted something in their own scripture that aligns to their bigotry!!

Me, I want to believe again. On the other hand, for those who already do believe, I ask them to explore that belief..

Well.

U R asking the wrong person in atto - for I have KNOWLEDGE of IT - indeed both the GOOD n EVIL side of this GOD being - courtesy of consuming the Tree of Life (*abortion) & the 'fruit' of the Tree of Know_Ledge.

Among other things, whatever the hell that means?

Can't work it out? ASK.

in regard to these four factors:

1] a demonstrable proof of the existence of your God or religious/spiritual path
2] addressing the fact that down through the ages hundreds of Gods and religious/spiritual paths to immortality and salvation were/are championed...but only one of which [if any] can be the true path. So why yours?
3] addressing the profoundly problematic role that dasein plays in any particular individual's belief in Gods and religious/spiritual faiths
4] the questions that revolve around theodicy and your own particular God or religious/spiritual path

1. easy peasy www.androcies.com - getting there eventually.
2. it's a case of discernment of wo/man that have interacted with this GOD being and insisted upon their own conclusions. Currently me, as one of "those" I sit on a Divine GOD being akin to AI - although I will not rule out GOD merely being AI with sages that have some ultimate control over it.
3. No issue, people are born into what they deserve via KARMIC reincarnation - based on their previous life - U get wot U believe.
4. Theodicy - laugh my socks off - challenge me on that point alone if that's the stickler.

About what I expected from someone who may or may not have a "condition".

Do I appear irrational to you? The fact that I made a wad load of cash because I dobbed GOD in to "professionals" and they were deluded enough by the state of what appears to be REALITY - thus - ironically - deeming me the one that is 'deluded' - ergo, irrational - i find hilarious. SAGE insists I do art - I am now in a financial position to do that - GOD works in mysterious ways.

Though just out of curiosity, what in particular regarding what many call "acts of God" here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l ... _eruptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... l_cyclones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... _pandemics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_records
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

...make you laugh the hardest? Though, sure, I may be misunderstanding your point.

So, because they are labelled "ACTS of GOD" - you insist GOD is deliberately causing each individual instance, rather than forming a planet, and allowing it to endure natural events.

Which made me laugh the hardest?...that's a tough one - those bobbing Japanese in that massive Tsunami were pretty funny. You see, I can LAUGH at REAL-IT-Y, since based on what I have empirically observed of GOD, I know that Reality is a convoluted apparition of the Truth - what we witness, is not necessarily happening extensively to individual souls.

I'll again give you account of utube videos I have seen of horrific workplace accidents. A couple where men were trapped in industrial ovens, that slowly started to heat to incredible temperatures - NOW! -- I know what this GOD can do - that it can take souls prior to suffering. When IT had my arm broken with a baseball bat in Nov 2005 - and I discharged myself from hospital with a screw up for pain meds - I was in agony, crying in bed in fact. I knew GOD to exist since 1997 - said a prayer for pain relief. "Would you like me to erase that?" was stated from the aether - yes of course was my answer - ALL the pain went for 10 mins, then it returned and the voice stated "Do you understand.." - the story continues - it was later that night that the sage introduced himself for the first time (*when I asked 'who are you, are you GOD?' - the answer was "I am a sage").

Now, down through the ages, however, not many believers seemed interested in going there. They still don't. On the other hand, they are able to sustain all those comforting and consoling thoughts and feelings that I once sustained myself as a Christian.

Au contraire - read MY replies.

Au contraire, after reading them it merely reinforced my thinking that this may well be just another rendition of what I call a "that's entertainment" exchange.

If you find it merely entertaining then that is your folly, you are the one with the existential crisis, not me.

[Lacewing]

There could be much more than being human... with all of the ideas and limitations that come with that. Why do we think that being human is the end all, be all?

Why shouldn't we? I'd prefer the human form than any other... /... What are you suggesting?

Well, you certainly can focus on what you prefer... and believe that to be >all there is<. Most people do. But considering all the diversity and vastness of nature, and connectivity/behaviors of energy -- (all still being discovered) -- and from the fantastical microscopic to the expansiveness of the ever-changing cosmos (so much greater than any human need) -- along with ongoing, continual other-worldly experiences and encounters, it seems unlikely to me that everything revolves around the human form and human way of thinking.

What limits the human experience that you can envision could have some further aspect, moving forward?

Just look at how stupid we are right now! There is so much we don't see and can't fathom (as it has always been). Supposedly brilliant civilizations have fallen before us. Our human tendencies for gaining power, control, and turning ourselves into little gods -- or, at least, seeing ourselves as favored by gods -- is a forceful, ego-comforting, distraction from the larger nature that we come from and are inextricably linked to. Our need for significance blinds our awareness. We destroy the nature we depend upon, as well as blowing up ourselves. Surely there are better 'frequencies' of awareness to attune to than such a small limited self-serving scope. And the human form, itself, is fragile against all kinds of threats.

It was we, ourselves, who decided humans were the pinnacle of creation... and we made up god-stories to give it 'credibility'. So much make-believe -- maybe even more than that of children. Yes?

[attofishpi]

It was we, ourselves, who decided humans were the pinnacle of creation... and we made up god-stories to give it 'credibility'. So much make-believe -- maybe even more than that of children. Yes?

Really? Your belief is totally contrary to my knowledge.

[Lacewing]

It was we, ourselves, who decided humans were the pinnacle of creation... and we made up god-stories to give it 'credibility'. So much make-believe -- maybe even more than that of children. Yes?

Really? Your belief is totally contrary to my knowledge.

What 'belief'? What 'knowledge'?

Do you not see how much make-believe there is in the world?
Are you referring to your experience as knowledge?
Can other people's experiences be 'knowledge' too, even if they conflict with yours?
Could each person's experience/'knowledge' be true for them but no one else?

[Belinda]

It scares me to think that even Lacewing and even Attofishpi could be personas invented to order by an artificial intelligence tool. Even I could be invented to order, notwithstanding all my errata and occasional emotionalism.

On the basis that intelligent machines can't die, to be present at a death event is evidence that the dying person was real.