Christianity

[Belinda]

But then a lot of the events in the New Testament didn't happen. And some of the things that Jesus allegedly said are false.

So which of Jesus' statements are to be believed?

Scholars used a combination of linguistics, anthropology, and history to discover which of Jesus'sayings actually came from Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

That's not the point.

If God doesn't intervene in history, then God is not giving the prophets or Jesus any special information. Therefore, everything that they say must originate from their daily experiences.

Yet Jesus says many things about God and the afterlife which he could not possibly know unless he has some special access to it. If that is removed from the religion, as well as the miracles, then there is not much religion left.

Not so .There's a lot of religion left.
https://act.faithfulamerica.org/signup/about-us/

[phyllo]

200,000 members

Some(many?) sound like they might believe in an intervening God and Jesus' special connection and powers.

[Immanuel Can]

Scholars used a combination of linguistics, anthropology, and history to discover which of Jesus'sayings actually came from Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

[attofishpi]

The "direct lineage to the divine " that Jesus claimed was the Jewish lineage back to the royal house of David. Also, Jesus was a Jew so he believed that a Messiah would arrive to lead the Jews.

Now there's one of those non-sequiturs that I mentioned troubles me about your analysis of thangs.

Just because Jesus was born a Jew, does not mean that he did not know himself to be the Messiah "that would arrive to lead the Jews"

The way you addressed that above, it appears you are implying simply for being born a Jew that he then believed "a Messiah would arrive to lead the Jews" as if that Messiah was some other dude!

Do you understand the point I am making?

Jesus of Nazareth was an orthodox Jew so he believed that the Jewish messiah would be born of the house of King David, through the paternal lineage. The Gospels vary as to Jesus' personal belief as to whether or not he was himself the Messiah.

Provide evidence (the red bit).

From my distant memory of reading the Gospels I don’t recall Christ doubting that he IS the Messiah. I also don’t recall him stating that he is the Messiah.

The miracles that Jesus performed with eye witness accounts, to an atheist as yourself (yes, your form of “GOD” is no god – I can explain if you wish) are clearly not enough for you to consider him the MESSIAH..of course that included Him stating not only being Son of GOD – but also indicating he is GOD (incarnated as human).

Christians consider the Messiah to be a spiritual not a literal messiah.

I very much doubt that.

As a Christian myself, I am of the opinion that Jesus the Christ was not the Son of GOD, but GOD incarnate as man himself. There would be great reasons why he only stated he was the Son of GOD and the Son of Man. For to continually state he is GOD would immediately have him killed (*not part of the plan yet) and also, deter those Jews around him from considering Him as their Messiah. It was better to be considered the Christ than GOD from the Jew (open to proselytization) POV.

The point is academic, and does not affect how Christianity may be taught as a reasonable faith.
To teach Christianity as a reasonable faith it must be taught without miracles or a version of God who intervenes in history.

Such nonsense!

There would be NO faith, absolutely no point to consider Jesus the Christ, ergo, “Christianity” if one is to discard the KEY components of the reasoning of what a GOD and Jesus the Christ actually did and is. There is nothing unreasonable in such teachings, including miracles, to do otherwise is where reasoning fails on the subject matter.

[Belinda]

Scholars used a combination of linguistics, anthropology, and history to discover which of Jesus'sayings actually came from Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

Miracles are paranormal like ghosts, ouija, and poltergeists.

There is no evidence for miracles.
I am sorry that Christianity is become the stomping ground of the superstitious , the unthinking, and the political extreme right.

[attofishpi]

Scholars used a combination of linguistics, anthropology, and history to discover which of Jesus'sayings actually came from Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

Miracles are paranormal like ghosts, ouija, and poltergeists.

There is no evidence for miracles.
I am sorry that Christianity is become the stomping ground of the superstitious , the unthinking, and the political extreme right.

There may be no evidence for you Belinda, one that has no faith, faith was stated as a prior requirement.

I on the other hand since 1997 have been witness to countless "miracles". If someone believes in a ghost, GOD may project one to them, same goes for anything..as per my "UFO" story below..

All we can be certain of I guess is cogito ergo sum.

As I explained to Will one day that we cannot even believe what we witness.


1997 GOD introduced itself to me via manipulating REAL_IT_Y

Kuitpo Forest - 1997/98
I was sat on the bonnet of my old XB Falcon late at night in Kuitpo Forest, eating a pizza and staring up at the Milky Way.

I saw a shooting star streak across part of the sky. Then, where the trail of that streak ended, another shooting star shot back in the opposite direction to the position where the original "star" had started. THEN another shooting star, repeated from the exact same point of the original, in the exact same streak direction!

So, basically, I am supposed to consider that from three space rocks\debris - two went in precisely the same part of the sky in the precisely the same direction, but the other went precisely the opposite direction. I can't understand how rocks from space can go in an opposite direction - odds at the same time, same place - rather slim is an understatement.

After that, three strobe lights on some 'craft' - "strobed" in the same area of the sky where these shooting stars had been - but travelling away from me into the distance!

I just laughed and blamed God for blowing smoke up my arse attempting to get me to believe there was a ship with little green men up there too!

GOD projected another "UFO" to me in 2021 when I was driving along a country road in Yorke Peninsula..

Yes, Aliens could be around the place as so many, including some within the US government believe. Personally, from what I have witnessed this GOD entity can do - I believe GOD is just keeping us on our toes and projecting such phenomena.

PS: The existence of the Shroud of Turin is as close to a miracle as you may ever get..
viewtopic.php?t=43652&start=165

[Immanuel Can]

Scholars used a combination of linguistics, anthropology, and history to discover which of Jesus'sayings actually came from Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

Miracles are paranormal like ghosts, ouija, and poltergeists.

Well, that's a different question than the credibility (or better, as you can see, lack thereof) of "The Jesus Seminar." It's also nothing but an assumption. But it's certainly an assumption many are very enthusiastic to jump to.

There is no evidence for miracles.

You mean, "no evidence I'll accept," not "no evidence, period." There's certainly evidence. You just don't like what it is, I suppose.

The life of Christ would be the first of all miracles, and there's plenty of evidence for it...literary, prophetic, historical, archaeological, and plenty of present-day existential evidence in the lives and cultures of those He's transformed. But that won't maybe make much difference to you. You'll have to set your own standard of what you'll accept and call "evidence." Nobody can force you to have a standard of evidence if you don't choose to have one.

But if you do, then let me ask you the usual question: what would you accept as evidence for a miracle?

[Age]

Scholars used a combination of linguistics, anthropology, and history to discover which of Jesus'sayings actually came from Jesus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Seminar

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

And what is your suggestion, here, "Immanuel can"?

All one has to do is just read the bible?

Where are 'your standards of evidence' AT "immanuel can"?

Not that you will provide an answer, and clarity. For the very simple Fact that you have NONE.

[Age]

Now there's one of those non-sequiturs that I mentioned troubles me about your analysis of thangs.

Just because Jesus was born a Jew, does not mean that he did not know himself to be the Messiah "that would arrive to lead the Jews"

The way you addressed that above, it appears you are implying simply for being born a Jew that he then believed "a Messiah would arrive to lead the Jews" as if that Messiah was some other dude!

Do you understand the point I am making?

Jesus of Nazareth was an orthodox Jew so he believed that the Jewish messiah would be born of the house of King David, through the paternal lineage. The Gospels vary as to Jesus' personal belief as to whether or not he was himself the Messiah.

Provide evidence (the red bit).

From my distant memory of reading the Gospels I don’t recall Christ doubting that he IS the Messiah. I also don’t recall him stating that he is the Messiah.

The miracles that Jesus performed with eye witness accounts, to an atheist as yourself (yes, your form of “GOD” is no god – I can explain if you wish)

WHY will you ONLY explain if "belinda" wishes?

What is "belinda's" for of 'God', and why is that form of God a so-called 'no god'?

Also, why do you just not explain what the True, Right, Accurate, and Correct form of God is, EXACTLY?

Obviously you do NOT explain because you do NOT know. Which then invokes the QUESTION, 'How do you know that "belinda's" form of God is NOT God, Itself?

you CLARITY would help in speeding up the revealing of who and what the One and ONLY REAL and True God is, in Life. But you will NOT provide ANY CLARITY at all, here, because of your FEAR that 'your form of God' will be SHOWN and REVEALED as THE NO God, here.

you, instead, will just keep making out and pretending that you KNOW God, Itself, but all along what the ACTUAL Truth is, EXACTLY, is the VERY OPPOSITE.

are clearly not enough for you to consider him the MESSIAH..

And the Fact that you have NO PROOF AT ALL, and NOTHING AT ALL, other than your OWN MADE UP BELIEFS 'you' will, STILL, BELIEVE, ABSOLUTELY, that 'that one human being' was, or is, some so-called 'messiah'. Which just goes to SHOW and PROVE, ONCE MORE, the POWER of BELIEF, itself.

of course that included Him stating not only being Son of GOD – but also indicating he is GOD (incarnated as human).

And, just like some people BELIEVE fairies, tooth fairies, easter bunnies, invisible ninjas, and/or a santa claus exists, for NO other reason than they were just TOLD and/or they READ that 'those things' exist, some people also BELIEVE God and some so-called 'son of God' exist for NO other reason than they were just TOLD and/or they READ that 'they' exist.

Some people, back in the days when this was being written, REALLY were that EASY TO DECEIVE and FOOL. But this was just because they have NOT YET LEARNED HOW the brain ACTUALLY WORKS.

Christians consider the Messiah to be a spiritual not a literal messiah.

I very much doubt that.

As a Christian myself,

LOL ONCE AGAIN the ONLY 'one' 'this one' is FOOLING and DECEIVING, here, IS "itself".

One would think that if 'one' was going to CLAIM "them" 'self' to be some 'thing', then 'that one' would be ABLE TO DEFINE the 'very thing' that it CLAIMS "itself" to be. Yet, 'this one' WILL PROVE that it can NOT define the "christian" word in A WAY that could be AGREED WITH, and ACCEPTED, BY EVERY one. Which is, OBVIOUSLY, the ONLY WAY ANY thing can FIT IN, PERFECTLY, WITH the One and ONLY True and REAL Picture, of Life, Itself.

I am of the opinion that Jesus the Christ was not the Son of GOD,

Are you also of the opinion that ONLY 'the one' human being known, here, as "jesus christ" was the ONLY 'child of God'?

but GOD incarnate as man himself. There would be great reasons why he only stated he was the Son of GOD and the Son of Man. For to continually state he is GOD would immediately have him killed (*not part of the plan yet) and also, deter those Jews around him from considering Him as their Messiah. It was better to be considered the Christ than GOD from the Jew (open to proselytization) POV.

But, 'that human being' ONLY stated or expressed things that were TAUGHT TO it.

The point is academic, and does not affect how Christianity may be taught as a reasonable faith.
To teach Christianity as a reasonable faith it must be taught without miracles or a version of God who intervenes in history.

Such nonsense!

There would be NO faith, absolutely no point to consider Jesus the Christ, ergo, “Christianity” if one is to discard the KEY components of the reasoning of what a GOD and Jesus the Christ actually did and is.

BUT, you OBVIOUSLY STILL DO NOT YET KNOW what God is.

There is nothing unreasonable in such teachings, including miracles, to do otherwise is where reasoning fails on the subject matter.

But, what the 'subject matter' is, EXACTLY, you STILL DO NOT YET KNOW.

[Age]

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

Miracles are paranormal like ghosts, ouija, and poltergeists.

There is no evidence for miracles.
I am sorry that Christianity is become the stomping ground of the superstitious , the unthinking, and the political extreme right.

There may be no evidence for you Belinda, one that has no faith, faith was stated as a prior requirement.

I on the other hand since 1997 have been witness to countless "miracles".

Why do you keep mentioning '1997' as though that has some importance on its own, here?

you have been WITNESSING countless so-called 'miracles' SINCE 'your birth', and even since 'your conception', but you were just NOT YET 'conscious' OF 'them'. you ONLY started NOTICING some of the countless 'miracles', since 'that year', because you just ended up LOOKING, and thus SEEING, FROM a different perspective/s, ONLY.

Contrary to 'your BELIEF', 'you' are NOT some sort of CHOSEN one AT ALL. 'you' are NO DIFFERENT than ANY other human being, in 'this regard', including the one human being known as "jesus christ". 'you' like EVERY other one of you human beings has just had DIFFERENT 'past experiences'.

If someone believes in a ghost, GOD may project one to them, same goes for anything..as per my "UFO" story below..

LOL
LOL
LOL

God does NOT 'project' what one wants to BELIEVE. What one BELIEVES is what STOPS and PREVENTS 'that one' FROM LOOKING AT and SEEING the ACTUAL Truths, in and of Life, and is what CAUSES you people to 'see' what you WANT TO SEE.

All we can be certain of I guess is cogito ergo sum.

'your GUESS', here, is Wrong and False, AS WELL, as that is NOT the ONLY 'thing' that 'we' NOR 'I' AM CERTAIN OF.

As I explained to Will one day that we cannot even believe what we witness.

YET here people like "will bouwman" AND "attofishpi" are BELIEVING 'things', which they have NOT YET even WITNESSED.

LOL 'These two' BELIEVE some things are ABSOLUTELY TRUE ON NOTHING MORE than just what they have READ and/or have just been TOLD.

But, AGAIN, the POWER of FAITH and BELIEF can and DOES LEAD some people COMPLETELY and UTTERLY ASTRAY

1997 GOD introduced itself to me via manipulating REAL_IT_Y

LOL
LOL
LOL

'This one' ACTUALLY BELIEVES, ABSOLUTELY, that some 'God thing', (which it STILL does NOT YET KNOW what God is, EXACTLY), LOL 'manipulated 'Reality', Itself, just so "attofishpi", itself, would SEE things DIFFERENTLY.

AGAIN "attofishpi" 'you' are NOT some 'CHOSEN one'. AGAIN, God does NOT CHANGE ANY thing for ANY particular individual.

'you' REALLY DO NEED TO CHANGE 'your OWN made up BELIEFS', that is; if you REALLY DO WANT TO SEE, and KNOW, the ACTUAL Truth of things, here.

Kuitpo Forest - 1997/98
I was sat on the bonnet of my old XB Falcon late at night in Kuitpo Forest, eating a pizza and staring up at the Milky Way.

I saw a shooting star streak across part of the sky. Then, where the trail of that streak ended, another shooting star shot back in the opposite direction to the position where the original "star" had started. THEN another shooting star, repeated from the exact same point of the original, in the exact same streak direction!

Therefore, God exists, AND, God CHOSE 'me', hey "attofishpi"?

So, basically, I am supposed to consider that from three space rocks\debris - two went in precisely the same part of the sky in the precisely the same direction, but the other went precisely the opposite direction. I can't understand how rocks from space can go in an opposite direction - odds at the same time, same place - rather slim is an understatement.

Why can you NOT just UNDERSTAND that rocks which are NOT on earth can go in ALL directions?

What is so HARD or so COMPLEX, here, that MAKES you NOT UNDERSTAND that rocks move in ALL DIRECTIONS in what you call 'space'?

After that, three strobe lights on some 'craft' - "strobed" in the same area of the sky where these shooting stars had been - but travelling away from me into the distance!

In 'what direction' were you travelling that 'some craft' was travelling in some so-called 'away from you' direction?

I just laughed and blamed God for blowing smoke up my arse attempting to get me to believe there was a ship with little green men up there too!

GOD projected another "UFO" to me in 2021 when I was driving along a country road in Yorke Peninsula..

What kind of terminology 'God projected ...', even MEANT to MEAN, EXACTLY, or what is 'that terminology' REFERRING TO, EXACTLY?

Obviously, If you can not explain it simply, then you do not understand it well enough.

Yes, Aliens could be around the place as so many, including some within the US government believe. Personally, from what I have witnessed this GOD entity can do - I believe GOD is just keeping us on our toes and projecting such phenomena.

There is NO wonder that 'you' were DIAGNOSED WITH 'schizephrenia" when you SAY and CLAIM things like 'this'.

CLAIMING that God PROJECTS 'things', TO 'you' PERSONALLY, is A VERY HIGH ORDER OF 'mental DISORDER'.

PS: The existence of the Shroud of Turin is as close to a miracle as you may ever get..
viewtopic.php?t=43652&start=165

Are you EVEN AWARE that some so-called "scientists" CLAIM that 'climate change' IS REAL, while other so-called "scientists" CLAIM that 'climate change' IS NOT REAL, just like some so-called "scientists" CLAIM the called 'shroud of turn' IS A MIRACLE, while other so-called "scientists" CLAIM that the called 'shroud of turin' IS NOT A MIRACLE?

And, that 'you' have just CHOSEN to LOOK AT and USE some particular "scientists" ONLY?

[iambiguous]

Shroud of Turin – Dr John Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT1R2kDPHFA&t=0s

The shroud of Turin is THE most important artifact of physical proof of anything pertaining to a miracle. Thus, of such importance to your quest for evidence of GOD, especially the Christian GOD - that I insisted you watch it prior to my reply to your earlier post.

Really, think about it. An omnipotent Christian God could easily provide mere mortals with evidence or artifacts or personal experiences such that around the globe men and women would look like fools if they did not accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Instead, He leaves them a shroud!

As I stated in my previous reply to you, that this GOD entity may have a great reason NOT to make its existence obvious to everyone such that all humanity are left with NO doubt.

Of course: His mysterious ways. The perfect explanation for things we either don't understand about existence itself or things we do understand [or think we do] that deeply disturb us. We can then just convince ourselves it's all necessary given God's Divine Plan. And since it's assumed that the Christian God is [ultimately] loving, just and merciful, our leap of faith includes the assumption as well that "in the end" we'll be taken care of. And in paradise no less.

I am happy to discuss my theory on that if you wish.

No, I prefer that any theories pertaining to meaning, morality and metaphysics be brought down out of the academic clouds and reconciled with the arguments I make pertaining to dasein and conflicting goods in my signature threads. Given a context of your own choosing.

Even IF the shroud is a 1260-1390 AD forgery - scientists are baffled as to how in that time period grayscale information that is embedded as the image could have been produced, especially with enough grayscale to permit a 3D image with todays tech - see my comments below.

Well, if it's finally confirmed that the shroud is a 1260-1390 AD forgery, so much for it being the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Scientists admit that they could not even reproduce the artifact using today's technology.

On the other hand, if it is unequivocally true that science today still fails to replicate it, "to reproduce the artifact using today's technology" please link me to the arguments, the evidence, the bottom line, etc., that convinced you of this.

The evidence is explained in the video. The reason I insist on this video is because it has footage of microscopic analysis among other things that show the fibres and how they have individually been radiated.

On and on and on you go about the shroud. Whereas others -- https://www.google.com/search?q=the+shr ... URT-reRWmz -- disagree and have their own set of assumptions about it.

Why yours and not theirs? I suspect that revolves around the fact that your own conclusions here do comfort and console you. Whereas my assumptions are considerably more...ghastly?

The great thing about the omnipotence of this GOD entity (*while choosing to remain imperceptible to us, for good reason) IS that GOD can minimise the suffering of people in great natural catastrophes - indeed, snatch their souls prior to great suffering.

That's simply preposterous, in my view, given any number of particularly agonizing contexts above in which the "act of God" itself is the source of all the terrible pain and suffering.

And, again, unlike Jesus Christ who "as God in the flesh" was fully aware that Heaven [immortality/salvation] was right around the corner for Him, almost all the rest of us are left grappling with existential leaps of faith or wagers. Also, knowing that there are many, many other religious denominations "out there" who are quite adamant that only their own One True Path counts.

And thereeth lieth the end of the sermon.

I don't preach or teach the gospel according to iambiguous. On the contrary, over and again, I flat-out acknowledge that my own set of assumptions here are no less rooted existentially in dasein. I can demonstrate little or nothing in regard to human interactions in the is/ought world.

Then the part where contingency, chance and change can have a profound impact in our lives given new experiences, new relationships and access to new information and knowledge.

Then this part:

Go into more detail regarding this "introduction". How did it commence and then unfold? Aside from what you tell yourself about it in a "world of words" here, what actual substantive, authentic and corroborative evidence do you have?

And this part:

A shroud such that if you Google "is the shroud of Turin real?", you are deluged with all manner of conflicting accounts. Same with things like the Holy Grail or the Ark of the Covenant.

https://www.google.com/search?q=is+the+ ... s-wiz-serp

As I once noted, "I'm reminded of that scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark...a warehouse and a crate with a swastika on it. We watch as [supposedly] God burns it away. Take that you Nazis!"

You want to believe that there is an omnipotent GOD, but scoff at what I know IS plausible with this entity. There is no point to this discussion.

In other words, since I have not come around yet to how you think about this, and you're convinced that I never will...?

[Age]

Wow. Your standards of evidence might need some raising, B.

https://www.str.org/w/the-jesus-seminar-under-fire

Miracles are paranormal like ghosts, ouija, and poltergeists.

Well, that's a different question than the credibility (or better, as you can see, lack thereof) of "The Jesus Seminar." It's also nothing but an assumption. But it's certainly an assumption many are very enthusiastic to jump to.

There is no evidence for miracles.

You mean, "no evidence I'll accept," not "no evidence, period." There's certainly evidence.

And, just like some people will NOT accept 'evidence' for some things, some people WILL accept 'evidence' for some things. Like, for example, some people ACCEPT so-called 'evidence' for the flat earth, the geocentric universe, the Universe beginning, the Universe expanding, that God has a penis and gonads. So, as can be VERY CLEARLY SEEN, here, some people really do ACCEPT so-called 'evidence' for things that are OBVIOUSLY ABSOLUTELY False TO 'other people'.

And, what ALL of 'these people', who ACCEPT so-called 'evidence', for things, COMPLETELY MISS and/or MISUNDERSTAND IS that 'evidence' is NOT even worth being LOOKED AT and/or CONSIDERED. Especially considering the Fact that ACTUAL PROOF EXISTS, for ALL things, and which IS READILY AVAILABLE, that is; WHEN one has LEARNED HOW TO LOOK AT and SEEING 'things' for what they, EXACTLY Truly ARE.

You just don't like what it is, I suppose.

EXACTLY like how you just do like what 'it' is.

The life of Christ would be the first of all miracles,

LOL
LOL
LOL

'This one' SAYS 'this' as though the life of that 'one' out of countless just 'human beings' was somehow more important or more significant. Which SHOWS and PROVES just how NARROWED and CLOSED some human beings HAD BECOME.

and there's plenty of evidence for it

LOL 'There is plenty of evidence that a human being was born and lived'. LOL

...literary, prophetic, historical, archaeological, and plenty of present-day existential evidence in the lives and cultures of those He's transformed.

LOL 'transformed' LOL

How, EXACTLY, would 'this one' BELIEVE that that one very simple human being 'transformed' others, EXACTLY?

By the way the word 'prophetic', here, PLAYS/ED A HUGE ROLE IN the ' second coming of "jesus" '. Depending in what 'age' one is READING 'these words'.

But that won't maybe make much difference to you.

But, maybe 'that' will maybe make much difference, as well.

You'll have to set your own standard of what you'll accept and call "evidence."

LOL
LOL
LOL

Just like 'you', "immanuel can", have SET 'your own standard' of what you will ACCEPT and CALL 'evidence'. For example you have ALREADY ACCEPTED that because one or a few male human beings started naming, labeling, and calling God a "he", you just ACCEPT 'this' ONLY as 'enough evidence'. Which is ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS TO WATCH and OBSERVE what 'some people' ACCEPT and CALL as 'evidence'.

Some people could be and were TRICKED, FOOLED, and DECEIVED so ABSOLUTELY SIMPLY and EASILY.

Nobody can force you to have a standard of evidence if you don't choose to have one.

Just like NO one can force you to STOP having the MOST RIDICULOUS and ABSURD 'standards of evidence' ALSO "immanuel can".

See, if people like "yourself" want to ACCEPT and BELIEVE things, which are OBVIOUSLY ABSOLUTE Falsehoods and/or FAIRY TALES, TO others, and even PROVABLY SO, then you are ABSOLUTELY FREE TO DO SO.

But if you do, then let me ask you the usual question: what would you accept as evidence for a miracle?

What would you ACCEPT as 'evidence' for your BELIEFS, which are NOT TRUE?

Or, better still, if what you BELIEVE were NOT TRUE, then would you want to HEAR IT?

NOT that you will EVER ANSWER and CLARIFY the LAS CLARIFYING QUESTION, here, BECAUSE OF, EXACTLY, WHERE that WILL LEAVE you.

[attofishpi]

Shroud of Turin – Dr John Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT1R2kDPHFA&t=0s

Really, think about it. An omnipotent Christian God could easily provide mere mortals with evidence or artifacts or personal experiences such that around the globe men and women would look like fools if they did not accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Instead, He leaves them a shroud!

As I stated in my previous reply to you, that this GOD entity may have a great reason NOT to make its existence obvious to everyone such that all humanity are left with NO doubt.

Of course: His mysterious ways. The perfect explanation for things we either don't understand about existence itself or things we do understand [or think we do] that deeply disturb us. We can then just convince ourselves it's all necessary given God's Divine Plan. And since it's assumed that the Christian God is [ultimately] loving, just and merciful, our leap of faith includes the assumption as well that "in the end" we'll be taken care of. And in paradise no less.

Not even close mate.

My theory is that since we arn't the only lifeform that GOD created, and many humans do abhorrent things to other humans to the point that they probably don't get to reincarnate human ever again. 666 - again, life is a struggle - if i were to judge someone I know and what he did in comparison to my dog Donnie being able to reincarnate as human, i'd swich their DNA moving forward in time

So.

GOD leaves people to their own actions. EVERYONE has been warned at least that there is some consequences to their actions IF GOD exists. (*problem for many is, IT does)

KEY reason ENTROPY -reversed- Y_PORT_NE? Why port any souls and to where, for certainly we need the biosphere equilibrium to continue..

I am happy to discuss my theory on that if you wish.

No, I prefer that any theories pertaining to meaning, morality and metaphysics be brought down out of the academic clouds and reconciled with the arguments I make pertaining to dasein and conflicting goods in my signature threads. Given a context of your own choosing.

Woops! I accidenally did just above.

Regarding 'dasein', such as myself being brought up in a Roman Catholic School via my parents choosing. Yes, I think I was wiser than many of my schoolfriends that thought Christianity/GOD was a load of nonsense. Since, I considered IF there is a GOD, then perhaps it had my soul implanted into this family that would send me to the R.C. school and learn of this GOD entity. Turned out, faith did enable me to know GOD exists.

Even IF the shroud is a 1260-1390 AD forgery - scientists are baffled as to how in that time period grayscale information that is embedded as the image could have been produced, especially with enough grayscale to permit a 3D image with todays tech - see my comments below.

Well, if it's finally confirmed that the shroud is a 1260-1390 AD forgery, so much for it being the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

Absolutely. I hope the RC church will allow further analysis, using the material of the shroud more central to it.

Scientists admit that they could not even reproduce the artifact using today's technology.

On the other hand, if it is unequivocally true that science today still fails to replicate it, "to reproduce the artifact using today's technology" please link me to the arguments, the evidence, the bottom line, etc., that convinced you of this.

Pretty certain it was in the video. I am not your errand boy. I truly don't care about you or any faithless on this forum, you keep striving without faith, no skin off of my knows.
If a NEGATIVE photgraphic image of a man was formed in the 14th Century, with enough grayscale information that NASA tech when applied permits a 3D model of a man in rigor-mortis, IF that isn't enough to switch from inside your head to have that thing that is required FAITH, then I guess nothing will.

And, again, unlike Jesus Christ who "as God in the flesh" was fully aware that Heaven [immortality/salvation] was right around the corner for Him, almost all the rest of us are left grappling with existential leaps of faith or wagers. Also, knowing that there are many, many other religious denominations "out there" who are quite adamant that only their own One True Path counts.

This is my best advice for you:

Apply your best rational mind to EVERTHING around you, look for anomalies within REALITY.

Look into such things as I am suggesting:-
SINAI - SIN_A.I. https://www.androcies.com/Images/Art/Mount%20Sinai.jpg

REAL_IT_Y?

The balanced structure of the ALPHABET:- https://www.androcies.com/Images/Art/Vo ... 20Sage.jpg

The Tree of KNOW_LEDGE of good and evil: https://www.androcies.com/Images/Art/Tr ... wledge.jpg

etc..etc..etc..www.androcies.com

And thereeth lieth the end of the sermon.

You want to believe that there is an omnipotent GOD, but scoff at what I know IS plausible with this entity. There is no point to this discussion.

In other words, since I have not come around yet to how you think about this, and you're convinced that I never will...?

Correct. And, more to the point as I stated above, I don't care.

[Age]

Shroud of Turin – Dr John Campbell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT1R2kDPHFA&t=0s

Really, think about it. An omnipotent Christian God could easily provide mere mortals with evidence or artifacts or personal experiences such that around the globe men and women would look like fools if they did not accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Instead, He leaves them a shroud!

As I stated in my previous reply to you, that this GOD entity may have a great reason NOT to make its existence obvious to everyone such that all humanity are left with NO doubt.

Of course: His mysterious ways. The perfect explanation for things we either don't understand about existence itself or things we do understand [or think we do] that deeply disturb us. We can then just convince ourselves it's all necessary given God's Divine Plan. And since it's assumed that the Christian God is [ultimately] loving, just and merciful,

There is NOT a single 'theology religion' where the MAIN or CENTRAL 'character' is NOT, ultimately, LOVING, JUST, and MERCIFUL.

EVERY S.A.G.E., Spirit, Allah, God, or Enlightenment, is ABOUT BEING LOVING, JUST, and MERCIFUL TO EVERY one, as One.

our leap of faith includes the assumption as well that "in the end" we'll be taken care of. And in paradise no less.

And, ONCE AGAIN, here, is ANOTHER PRIME example of 'these people's' ASSUMPTIONS LEADING them COMPLETELY and UTTERLY ASTRAY.

What is also VERY CLEAR, here, is 'this one's' ABSOLUTE SELFISHNESS and GREED, SHINING THROUGH VERY BRIGHTLY.

'In the end' ALL human beings END UP living in Peace and in Harmony, HERE-NOW, FOREVER MORE. The 'paradise' being referenced, here, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AT ALL to do with ANY one individual and what happens AFTER 'their death'.

SEEING the bible as being ABOUT individuals is WHY 'these human beings', when this was being written, had NOT YET LEARNED, and FULLY UNDERSTAND the ACTUAL MEANINGS in the words, nor in the messages, in the bible.

[Age]

As I stated in my previous reply to you, that this GOD entity may have a great reason NOT to make its existence obvious to everyone such that all humanity are left with NO doubt.

Of course: His mysterious ways. The perfect explanation for things we either don't understand about existence itself or things we do understand [or think we do] that deeply disturb us. We can then just convince ourselves it's all necessary given God's Divine Plan. And since it's assumed that the Christian God is [ultimately] loving, just and merciful, our leap of faith includes the assumption as well that "in the end" we'll be taken care of. And in paradise no less.

Not even close mate.

My theory is that since we arn't the only lifeform that GOD created, and many humans do abhorrent things to other humans to the point that they probably don't get to reincarnate human ever again.

Since you THEORY is Wrong, Inaccurate, AND Incorrect would you like to FIND OUT and KNOW WHEREABOUTS and WHY, EXACTLY?

If no, then, here, 'we' have ANOTHER PRIME example of just how CLOSED ''this one' REALLY IS.

666 - again, life is a struggle - if i were to judge someone I know and what he did in comparison to my dog Donnie being able to reincarnate as human, i'd swich their DNA moving forward in time

'This' is absolutely NONSENSICAL. And, if you BELIEVE otherwise, then just EXPLAIN HOW and WHY 'it' is NOT.

So.

GOD leaves people to their own actions. EVERYONE has been warned at least that there is some consequences to their actions IF GOD exists. (*problem for many is, IT does)

LOL It IS an ABSOLUTE, logical AND physical, IMPOSSIBILITY for ANY one to be ABLE TO 'live', ETERNALLY, AFTER 'they have died', IN 'the form' you BELIEVE, here.

KEY reason ENTROPY -reversed- Y_PORT_NE?

AGAIN, absolutely NO one 'sees' what you do, here.

Why port any souls and to where, for certainly we need the biosphere equilibrium to continue..

WHAT?

'NO 'soul' gets PORTED.'

you can NOT even DEFINE the word 'soul' in A WAY that could be AGREED WITH and ACCEPTED BY EVERY one. So, you do NOT YET EVEN KNOW what the word 'soul' MEANS or is even REFERRING TO, EXACTLY. BECAUSE IF you DID, then you would NOT be SAYING and CLAIMING what you are, here.