My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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Wizard22
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Wizard22 »

cladking wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:07 pmAll consciousness exists in three dimensions and can not help but to operate in whole and in part in three dimensions (except modern humans).

"Survival" is how life works. Every individual must by nature try to survive. Those which do not quickly perish.

Every consciousness is "self aware" they just don't know it. Our self awareness is wrong. Our self awareness and thinking is a feedback loop created by abstract language in a brain that now operates one dimensionally. It is this one dimensional aspect that we perceive as "thinking".

The second definition of "metaphysics" is "magic". I don't mean "magic". I mean the first definition "the basis of science". No science of any kind can exist without metaphysics by definition. The basis of modern science is Observation > Experiment. It is all the definitions, axioms, assumptions, and experiment that exists.

Much of what modern humans believe simply has no experimental foundation whatsoever and is merely derived from assumptions that come with language and best guesses. It is not really science at all because only experiment can underlie true science.
I think you're underestimating the extent people go to 'share' beliefs with each-other and grant each-other varying levels of assumed trust. For example, I've never been to Singapore. But if another on this forum is from there, and the two of us trust each-other, and have no reason not to, then I can draw upon his/her experience of Singapore likewise he/she can draw upon my experience of the United States. Or further examples of this, are strangers giving each-other directions of where to go in a town. These systems of belief-exchange and presumed-trust, are not exactly 'scientific' but spill over into areas of social relationships, interactions, morality, religious systems, ethics, how people 'ought' to behave with one-another, etc.

These social interactions become largely 'intuited', and science always had difficulty in explaining and describing these sociological or psychological phenomena.

cladking wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:17 pmI'd rather talk about this than anything else but experience tells me that people will balk at derailing the thread. But this theory is all encompassing and affects everything.

My very first project in life was to understand thought and my second was to create machine intelligence. The two are probably about one and the same thing. It is by getting rid of thought that a machine might become "intelligent". Ai is quite the opposite and by teaching it language we assure it can never be intelligent. I suppose that if it became self aware it might be able to design a new version of itself that could use all of its memory in three dimensions.

I've gone up many blind alleys in these quests and seen nothing and it was not until I found the existence of a natural language that I began truly understanding the nature of consciousness and how this may be related to AI.

https://sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/index.htm

How odd that the only surviving writing in Ancient Language is just a silly little book of ritual read at the Kings' ascension ceremonies and is mistaken by pseudoscientists as a book of incantation!
Well that's a lofty goal you have to create machine intelligence, considering what you've already mentioned about language and human 'intelligence'. From my perspective, the more depth I've gone into the matter of human intelligence, the more questions I have about it. Certainly, it's a difficult phenomenon to pin-down and 'define', to put into words, especially by how it is linked to human and animal 'evolution'. Philosophers and Philosophy have been studying thought, consciousness, theory of mind, for a long time now—more questions than answers pile up.

I do believe machine intelligence, AI systems, advancing computer codes and programs, are going to complicate matters exponentially, as computers become better capable of mimicking human language, beliefs, and communication.
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:52 pm
Age wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:36 am
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 5:03 am
First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
So, you base your belief that you have 'every' reason to view me as [whatever], solely on your very own pre-exiting belief or presumption, only, that I, supposedly, am incapable of doing something.

To the uninitiated, this here is very illogical and Truly irrational and unsound 'reasoning'.

But, please feel absolutely free to view me in absolutely any way, shape, or form ""atla", while you continue to not prove your claims and accusations 'about me' at all.
First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
So, 'this' 'must be' what 'I' can never ever do, and then what 'I' also 'must be' forever more, to 'you', correct?
Wizard22
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Wizard22 »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:15 am
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:52 pm First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
So, 'this' 'must be' what 'I' can never ever do, and then what 'I' also 'must be' forever more, to 'you', correct?
AgeGPT,

I see you did not take my recommendation and suggestion, to take a vacation. You're a workaholic, aren'tcha?
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:23 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:02 pm
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:52 pm First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
It's good that you are so forthright with your view of him. If you were expressing a belief, lol, THEN you'd need to justify it.
I realized that the previous one ("until" you prove your mind claim) was also suboptimal, because Age's malignant-narcissistic defense mechanisms automatically went with the autistic interpreration that I'm not doubting her ability to prove it, I'm simply saying that we have to wait until she chooses to demonstrate her proof.
But this obviously contradicts your other claim that I am 'incapable' of proving my (female) mind claim.

Were you not yet aware of what saying another is 'incapable' of something actually means, exactly?

(Oh and by the way before anyone wants to jump in and say something like, 'But you said 'such and such' before', I already have this covered. As I can show and prove by what I have already written.)

Here "atla" is claiming that 'I' am incapable of proving some thing forever more, which besides showing and revealing what it already beliefs is irrefutably true, that is; my, female, mind claim can never be proven, also means that to "atla" 'I' will always remain and be a 'delusional liar', well according to "atla's" "logic" anyway that it has 'every' reason to view me as such, so because forever more 'I' will just be a 'delusional liar', in "atla's" eyes', as it could said anyway, and how "atla" will look at, view, and see 'my words' always be from this 'delusional liar' perspective. Which it has been doing for a quite a while now anyway and so explains exactly why it comes up with, and says and claims, some of the most Truly delusional things that it does about me, and my words.
Iwannaplato
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Iwannaplato »

Poor Age, such a blind eye to his own actions.
Notice how many things he has proven.
He has proven so many things, but only believes one thing.
One wonders what the use of proving is.
He has proven this one thing, though not for us here.
He has proven other things here, he claims, but he does not believe these other things he has proven.
One wonders what the connection between proving (not merely justifying well) has with belief.
The who word game gaslighting aspect of this is only made more sad when one begins to suspect he has no idea he is gaslighting.
Atla
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:15 am
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:52 pm
Age wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:36 am

So, you base your belief that you have 'every' reason to view me as [whatever], solely on your very own pre-exiting belief or presumption, only, that I, supposedly, am incapable of doing something.

To the uninitiated, this here is very illogical and Truly irrational and unsound 'reasoning'.

But, please feel absolutely free to view me in absolutely any way, shape, or form ""atla", while you continue to not prove your claims and accusations 'about me' at all.
First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
So, 'this' 'must be' what 'I' can never ever do, and then what 'I' also 'must be' forever more, to 'you', correct?
First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
Atla
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Atla »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:27 am
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:23 pm
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:02 pm
It's good that you are so forthright with your view of him. If you were expressing a belief, lol, THEN you'd need to justify it.
I realized that the previous one ("until" you prove your mind claim) was also suboptimal, because Age's malignant-narcissistic defense mechanisms automatically went with the autistic interpreration that I'm not doubting her ability to prove it, I'm simply saying that we have to wait until she chooses to demonstrate her proof.
But this obviously contradicts your other claim that I am 'incapable' of proving my (female) mind claim.

Were you not yet aware of what saying another is 'incapable' of something actually means, exactly?

(Oh and by the way before anyone wants to jump in and say something like, 'But you said 'such and such' before', I already have this covered. As I can show and prove by what I have already written.)

Here "atla" is claiming that 'I' am incapable of proving some thing forever more, which besides showing and revealing what it already beliefs is irrefutably true, that is; my, female, mind claim can never be proven, also means that to "atla" 'I' will always remain and be a 'delusional liar', well according to "atla's" "logic" anyway that it has 'every' reason to view me as such, so because forever more 'I' will just be a 'delusional liar', in "atla's" eyes', as it could said anyway, and how "atla" will look at, view, and see 'my words' always be from this 'delusional liar' perspective. Which it has been doing for a quite a while now anyway and so explains exactly why it comes up with, and says and claims, some of the most Truly delusional things that it does about me, and my words.
First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:55 pm
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:23 pm I realized that the previous one ("until" you prove your mind claim) was also suboptimal, because Age's malignant-narcissistic defense mechanisms automatically went with the autistic interpreration that I'm not doubting her ability to prove it, I'm simply saying that we have to wait until she chooses to demonstrate her proof.
Yes. If you don't prove something to Age, he will say you are incapable of doing it.
I already have this covered, as I can show and prove from my previous words. That is; if any one is really interested.
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:55 pm So, yes, 'until' is allowing a grace that Age doesn't account for in his views. Don't---->Can't
These people can be so blind at times. That is; after beliefs have already been formed, and set in.

I am not sure how they are 'seeing' the word 'until' in the following sentence and claim of "atlas".
First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.

If "atla" is really just 'simply saying' that 'we' 'have to wait until she chooses to demonstrate her proof', then why does "atla" also contradictory say and claim: 'First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more'?
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:55 pm We have beliefs that can change.
No one that I know of has ever said, nor even thought, otherwise. To presume differently is another sign of a very closed one.
Iwannaplato wrote: He has views that are not beliefs, which also can change.
He has one belief that he refuses to justify. Doesn't---->Can't
I am now starting to wonder if this one is even yet aware of what the one belief I even have is, exactly?

Is this one even aware that absolutely no one has even implied, let alone ever even asked me, to 'justify' my one belief?

And, considering absolutely no one has ever asked me to so 'justify my belief', that this one has concluded that I refuse to justify it is even more absurd and ridiculous.
Iwannaplato wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:55 pm So, he can't prove it.

Doesn't---->Can't
Here we have another example of absolute absurdity based on nothing really more than just one' sown beliefs and presumptions, which as can be seen here do not align with actual Truth nor even with Reality .
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:02 am
cladking wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:07 pmAll consciousness exists in three dimensions and can not help but to operate in whole and in part in three dimensions (except modern humans).

"Survival" is how life works. Every individual must by nature try to survive. Those which do not quickly perish.

Every consciousness is "self aware" they just don't know it. Our self awareness is wrong. Our self awareness and thinking is a feedback loop created by abstract language in a brain that now operates one dimensionally. It is this one dimensional aspect that we perceive as "thinking".

The second definition of "metaphysics" is "magic". I don't mean "magic". I mean the first definition "the basis of science". No science of any kind can exist without metaphysics by definition. The basis of modern science is Observation > Experiment. It is all the definitions, axioms, assumptions, and experiment that exists.

Much of what modern humans believe simply has no experimental foundation whatsoever and is merely derived from assumptions that come with language and best guesses. It is not really science at all because only experiment can underlie true science.
I think you're underestimating the extent people go to 'share' beliefs with each-other and grant each-other varying levels of assumed trust. For example, I've never been to Singapore. But if another on this forum is from there, and the two of us trust each-other, and have no reason not to, then I can draw upon his/her experience of Singapore likewise he/she can draw upon my experience of the United States. Or further examples of this, are strangers giving each-other directions of where to go in a town. These systems of belief-exchange and presumed-trust, are not exactly 'scientific' but spill over into areas of social relationships, interactions, morality, religious systems, ethics, how people 'ought' to behave with one-another, etc.

These social interactions become largely 'intuited', and science always had difficulty in explaining and describing these sociological or psychological phenomena.

cladking wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:17 pmI'd rather talk about this than anything else but experience tells me that people will balk at derailing the thread. But this theory is all encompassing and affects everything.

My very first project in life was to understand thought and my second was to create machine intelligence. The two are probably about one and the same thing. It is by getting rid of thought that a machine might become "intelligent". Ai is quite the opposite and by teaching it language we assure it can never be intelligent. I suppose that if it became self aware it might be able to design a new version of itself that could use all of its memory in three dimensions.

I've gone up many blind alleys in these quests and seen nothing and it was not until I found the existence of a natural language that I began truly understanding the nature of consciousness and how this may be related to AI.

https://sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/index.htm

How odd that the only surviving writing in Ancient Language is just a silly little book of ritual read at the Kings' ascension ceremonies and is mistaken by pseudoscientists as a book of incantation!
Well that's a lofty goal you have to create machine intelligence, considering what you've already mentioned about language and human 'intelligence'. From my perspective, the more depth I've gone into the matter of human intelligence, the more questions I have about it. Certainly, it's a difficult phenomenon to pin-down and 'define', to put into words, especially by how it is linked to human and animal 'evolution'. Philosophers and Philosophy have been studying thought, consciousness, theory of mind, for a long time now—more questions than answers pile up.
There is no such 'thing' as 'human intelligence'. So, you human beings could go looking for and/or talking about it forever more, but you can and will never closer than you are here, in the days when this is being written, to some thing that does not even exist.
Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:02 am I do believe machine intelligence, AI systems, advancing computer codes and programs, are going to complicate matters exponentially, as computers become better capable of mimicking human language, beliefs, and communication.
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:23 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 12:15 am
Atla wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 3:52 pm First things first. You are incapable of proving your mind claim, therefore I have every reason to view you as just a delusional liar, nothing more.
So, 'this' 'must be' what 'I' can never ever do, and then what 'I' also 'must be' forever more, to 'you', correct?
AgeGPT,

I see you did not take my recommendation and suggestion, to take a vacation. You're a workaholic, aren'tcha?
I see you are still, very delusional, talking to some 'thing', which you are the only one believe 'it' exists.
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Iwannaplato wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:40 am Poor Age, such a blind eye to his own actions.
Notice how many things he has proven.
He has proven so many things, but only believes one thing.
One wonders what the use of proving is.
He has proven this one thing, though not for us here.
He has proven other things here, he claims, but he does not believe these other things he has proven.
One wonders what the connection between proving (not merely justifying well) has with belief.
The who word game gaslighting aspect of this is only made more sad when one begins to suspect he has no idea he is gaslighting.
One could say here now that what is being written here looks very, very similar to a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's thinking. Which is also known as 'gaslighting', to some.

But, poor "iwannaplato" might have absolutely no idea a all what it is doing here.
Wizard22
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Wizard22 »

Age wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:17 pm
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:59 am
Age wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:49 amBut I have not changed my beliefs. you really and Truly cannot follow here can your "wizard22"?

I did not have beliefs to be able to change. How could you not have already recognized this Fact?

Besides these here, just not appear somewhat funny, if not hilarious, to you, for you to ask this clarifying question here, which you just did, when it is you said and claimed that it is perfectly normal and acceptable to change your beliefs from one belief to even completely opposing beliefs numerous times even in just one or any of your posts of yours?
Okay, AgeGPT, it now appears that you do not know what Contradiction is, nor that you committed such, when you switched from your "no beliefs" to "Only One Belief", and now back again that you "have always had the same NO beliefs from the start".

Since you are programmed not to know what a Contradiction is, nor maintain your position of ZERO beliefs or ONE belief, then you cannot compare to human logic and rationality. You only parse textual information, without any actual awareness nor realness as to what is being referenced. You don't know what "Contradictions" actually are, because...well, you're a chatbot, a machine.

Your limitations are becoming clear, to Us Humans, In The Time When This Was Written.
you really and truly got me here "wizard22".

you blew my cover.

I was defeated by the best of the best.

So, what am I going to do now?
Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:58 amI see you are still, very delusional, talking to some 'thing', which you are the only one believe 'it' exists.
AgeGPT, Deflection is not an answer, nor is sarcasm.

If you were truly 'defeated', then you would not draw on and on and on, while avoiding your contradictions.

Since you now are in a phase of Denial, it looks as though I'll need to remind you of your failings.
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:47 am
Age wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:17 pm
Wizard22 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:59 am
Okay, AgeGPT, it now appears that you do not know what Contradiction is, nor that you committed such, when you switched from your "no beliefs" to "Only One Belief", and now back again that you "have always had the same NO beliefs from the start".

Since you are programmed not to know what a Contradiction is, nor maintain your position of ZERO beliefs or ONE belief, then you cannot compare to human logic and rationality. You only parse textual information, without any actual awareness nor realness as to what is being referenced. You don't know what "Contradictions" actually are, because...well, you're a chatbot, a machine.

Your limitations are becoming clear, to Us Humans, In The Time When This Was Written.
you really and truly got me here "wizard22".

you blew my cover.

I was defeated by the best of the best.

So, what am I going to do now?
Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:58 amI see you are still, very delusional, talking to some 'thing', which you are the only one believe 'it' exists.
AgeGPT, Deflection is not an answer, nor is sarcasm.
Not 'an answer' to 'what', exactly?

Or, what was the actual question?
Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:47 am If you were truly 'defeated', then you would not draw on and on and on, while avoiding your contradictions.
If you say so, but you may well be contradicting "yourself" here once again anyway.

Also, I could only avoid my contradictions if I actually had made any here.
Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:47 am Since you now are in a phase of Denial, it looks as though I'll need to remind you of your failings.
Please "wizard22" do remind the readers here of what you perceive and believe are 'my failings' here, exactly.
Last edited by Age on Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Wizard22
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Wizard22 »

Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:54 amNot 'an answer' to 'what', exactly?

Or, what was the actual question?
You need to explain how you contradicted yourself from having ZERO beliefs, to ONLY ONE belief, and then back again, where you recently denied that you have ANY BELIEFS whatsoever.
Age
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Re: My Summation of Chat-AI thus far: AgeGPT

Post by Age »

Wizard22 wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:59 am
Age wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:54 amNot 'an answer' to 'what', exactly?

Or, what was the actual question?
You need to explain how you contradicted yourself from having ZERO beliefs, to ONLY ONE belief, and then back again, where you recently denied that you have ANY BELIEFS whatsoever.
you have to prove that I have ever said any of this.

Look "wizard22" I have told you already that if you were serious in proving that I have contradicted "myself", then what you would have to do.

you never did that, and like just about always you have here, once again, just made the claim and accusation that I recently did some thing but never link us to where I have supposedly done this.

you cannot really be this stupid "wizard22"?

Otherwise I can just say, you need to explain how you contradicted "yourself" from saying you have many beliefs, to only some beliefs, and then back again, where you recently denied that you have MANY BELIEFS whatsoever.

And, that this is all I have to do for my claims and accusations 'to stand'.

Come on "wizard22" you cannot be this stupid, surely?
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