Lost in the flood of beliefs

[Age]

Why pick any story? Can't we function without a story?

I pick HIS_STORY ->> Je sus Christ.

Whatever.

Doesn't seem to do you much good.

HOW do 'you', supposedly, KNOW?

"attofishpi" might have been much worse, now, if "attofishpi" had NOT 'picked' 'the story' that 'it' did.

[Age]

Do the stories we cling to for comfort or security actually keep us in captivity?

If 'the story' one so-calls 'picks', which that one then 'clings on to' for comfort, security, or for ANY other reason, and which is a LIMITING story, like, for example, 'the story' about 'there being NO one truth', then yes 'those stories' DO keep 'you' CAPTIVE "lacewing".

As 'you' are have been CONTINUALLY SHOWING and PROVING here.

Like a holding cell of familiar 'known' walls, we might prefer it over the limitless unknown 'outside' of it.

Yes that is just about EXACTLY what 'you', adult human beings, DID, BACK in the days when this WAS being written.

We impose the limits and then insist to others (especially on this forum) that it's the only true reality.

Which 'you', "lacewing", have PROVEN MANY TIMES OVER "yourself" here.

Among ALL of the "other ones" of 'you' here.

But why would the Universe be so small and contrived according to any person's limited reality... and what might be beyond that 'known space', truly?

WHY do 'you' KEEP ASKING 'this SAME QUESTION', as though 'your views or beliefs' are BETTER than "others" are, or like 'you' KNOW MORE than "others" do?

The Universe, Itself, IS infinite AND eternal.

Now, the Universe IS KNOWN.

So, there is NO 'beyond', of the 'KNOWN space or place' of this KNOWN Universe.

I think it's like learning that we can float in an immense body of water, and then swim. Which suddenly reminds me, when I was seven years old and didn't know how to swim, my abusive stepfather threw me in the deep end of a pool and kept pushing me away from grasping onto the sides of the pool or anything else. It only further taught me that I was on my own in life. I ran away from home that afternoon, only to return a short while later to the abuse because I didn't know where else to go.

Is 'this story' of 'your childhood' related to the first sentence here?

If yes, then HOW, EXACTLY?

Also, what is the 'it' word in that first sentence, even referring to, EXACTLY, anyway?

My life's experiences have always inspired me to explore further, and that is how I know that there's always more to discover than wherever I am at any particular moment.

BUT are 'you' EVER ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR what IS ACTUALLY True and Right ABOUT ANY 'thing' "lacewing"?

If yes, then are 'you' SURE?

But if no, then do 'you' KNOW, EXACTLY, WHY?

ALSO, how could ANY one DISCOVER MORE of A 'thing' that IS ALREADY FULLY UNDERSTOOD, and KNOWN?

It just doesn't make sense to 'lock it down' anywhere -- which essentially locks 'me' down.

So, ALTHOUGH 'it' does NOT make sense, to 'you', 'you' STILL DO 'it'.

Which, to "others", does NOT make ANY REAL sense AT ALL, REALLY.

I need to be free to keep moving...

How is 'this NEED' comforting 'you'?

Is 'this NEED' securing for 'you'?

Could this, PERCEIVED, NEED be LIMITING 'you' in some way?

Has this, PERCEIVED, NEED ALWAYS WORKED FOR 'you' and DONE 'you' GOOD?

mainly with my mind/perspective...

So, what IS 'this thing', which 'you' call 'your mind'?

And, who and/or what ARE 'you', which, supposedly, HAS this 'mind thing'?

as I discover more territory and potential.

Are 'you' here now 'trying to' suggest that 'you' are the ONLY one, or the ONLY REAL one, here who IS DISCOVERING what 'you' call 'more territory and potential'?

Could it be A POSSIBILITY that "others" are DISCOVERING just AS MUCH, or even MORE, than 'you' have been and/or are here?

Is it A POSSIBILITY that "another" here could have DISCOVERED MORE, or even FAR MORE, then 'you' have, so far, but 'your' LIMITING views or beliefs are HOLDING 'you' BACK, from ACTUALLY DISCOVERING A LOT MORE?

If I feel unreasonably restricted,

STRAIGHTAWAY 'this one' GOES DIRECTLY TO 'an ATTEMPT' AT "justification".

ANY 'restriction' in ANY SHAPE, FORM, WAY is NEVER REASONABLE.

What 'you' ARE DOING here "lacewing" is just providing a PERFECT example of just how Truly INTELLIGENT 'you', human beings, ARE, and CAN BE. SHOWING.

SEE, 'you' ALL have the ABILITY to LEARN, UNDERSTAND, and 'REASON' absolutely ANY and EVERY 'thing', individually.

And, what 'you' ARE 'TRYING TO' DO here is 'REASON' OUT that 'your' OWN forms of LIMITING or RESTRICTIVENESS IS 'reason-able'.

'you' have "your" OWN 'self' TRICKED and FOOLED INTO BELIEVING that there ARE some TYPES of 'restrictions' here that ARE 'reasonable' and some that ARE NOT 'reasonable'.

BUT, if some one was to CHALLENGE and/or ASK 'you' CLARIFYING QUESTIONS OVER and ABOUT 'this', then 'you' could NOT come up WITH ACTUALLY 'REASONED-ABLED' ANSWERS and JUSTIFICATIONS.

I start manifesting a way to move beyond the restrictions. It has worked out very well for me.

SO, what IS the REASON WHY 'you' can NOT move BEYOND 'the restrictions', which 'you', OBVIOUSLY, do HAVE, HOLD ONTO, and KEEP?

WHY do 'you' NOT START manifesting A WAY to MOVE BEYOND 'those restrictions'?

And, HOW WELL has 'this' been WORKING for 'you', EXACTLY?

This is perhaps why stories, especially religious ones, don't hold much sway for me.

BUT 'you' HOLD ONTO and ARE RIGIDLY FIXED and SOLIDLY CLOSED by one of the MOST False and Wrong BELIEFS and stories there IS.

So, WHY criticize "others" for HOLDING ONTO and ARE RIGIDLY FIXED and SOLIDLY CLOSED by OTHER False and/or Wrong BELIEFS and stories?

I already feel like I'm part of all-that-is, and I've been swimming in it my whole life

Do 'you' KNOW OF absolutely ANY human being who does NOT feel like A part of ALL-THAT-IS, and/or who has NOT been so-called 'swimming in 'it' their WHOLE life, (and again your INABILITY to just NAME and CALL 'it' what 'it' Truly IS does NOT go UNNOTICED).

without assurances.

Are 'you' ABSOLUTELY SURE 'you' are so-called 'swimming' WITHOUT absolutely ANY 'assurances' AT ALL?

Have 'you' NOT 'picked' the 'There is NO God' story, and feel 'comfort' AND 'security' IN and WITH that CHOSEN 'story'?

I would rather flow with it instead of clinging onto something.

But 'your ACTUAL words' here SHOW and REVEAL otherwise.

'you' are, supposedly, 'flowing' WITH 'it', again, supposedly, WITHOUT ANY 'buoyancy' AT ALL, which 'you' are, supposedly, NOT CLINGING ONTO. BUT, when 'you' are QUESTIONED and/or CHALLENGED OVER 'your words and CLAIMS', then 'you' FAIL, FALTER, and FLOUNDER, and just what could be called and described as SINK TO 'the bottom'.

For example, if 'you' have CHOSEN to 'pick' "one side" here, like the "NO God side and story", and/or the "NO one truth story and side", then WHY can 'you' NOT just RISE TO THE TOP and PROVE "your side" IRREFUTABLY True AND Right here, now?

Are 'you' ABSOLUTELY SURE "lacewing" that 'you' are NOT HOLDING ONTO or CLINGING TO some 'thing' that is REALLY just HOLDING and WEIGHING 'you' DOWN here?

There's a difference between utilizing different elements and 'handholds' while moving along... versus... committing myself to them. I know that my psychedelic use in my twenties helped me to see that I was safe in the Universe (beyond this physical world). That was a pivotal realization for me, and I've moved much more freely and effectively (and joyfully) through life ever since.

YET 'you' STILL ENDED UP here, in this forum, WITH 'the rest of us', whinging or complaining ABOUT "others" and HOW 'their' VIEWS or BELIEFS ARE WRONG, and/or while EXPRESSING one's OWN VIEWS or BELIEFS as 'they' ARE the TRUE and RIGHT ones TO HAVE, and TO BEHOLD.

So, WHY ARE 'you' CLINGING ONTO, and IN, 'this forum', WITH the 'rest of us', FOR EXACTLY, if 'you' ARE Truly FREE and Truly HAPPY, in Life, as 'you' SAY and CLAIM TO BE?

Our greatest limits are typically those that we impose on ourselves.

Which is, EXACTLY, what 'you' OBVIOUSLY ALSO DO, VERY WELL, "lacewing".

No matter what the world throws at us, we have options in how we perceive and manifest.

VERY True.

'you' COULD EITHER BE and STAY COMPLETELY and FULLY OPEN.

Or,

'you' COULD EITHER CHOOSE to 'pick' A particular story, and then ASSUME and/or BELIEVE 'that story' TO BE TRUE.

Like, for example, one COULD CHOOSE TO EITHER:

Pick 'the story' that 'There is NO One truth, NO One path, and/or NO One God', Or JUST BECOME and REMAIN Truly OPEN INSTEAD.

Life and death come and go -- sometimes full of terror -- but often not. What do we do with the moments that we have, in any circumstance? Naturally, I will always be discovering more ways that I am getting stuck and creating what I don't want...

GREAT. 'your progress' and SPEED of 'moving along', however, just seems relatively like at a 'SNAILS PACE', as some might say and call 'it'.

so that I can move and manifest beyond that, because I know there is greater potential all the time.

Have 'you' EVER considered that ACTUALLY there MIGHT JUST BE AN ABSOLUTE 'potential', of which there is NO so-called 'greater'?

Are 'you' OPEN TO 'this'? Or, is the VIEW that, 'There is 'greater potential ALL the time', just TO STRONG and/or TO RESTRICTIVE for 'you' to SEE that there JUST MIGHT BE A POTENTIAL OF NO MORE 'greatness'?

Oh, and which by the way, MIGHT JUST BE THE ACTUAL 'potential' REACHED AT, and WHEN AT, JUST FULL OPENNESS, Itself.

We WILL just HAVE TO WAIT, TO SEE, and FIND OUT, right?

Or, do 'you' STILL WANT TO STICK BY the CHOSEN 'picked' story that 'There is 'greater potential' 'ALL the time'?

So it's not surprising that the rigidity of religion not only makes no sense to me, but it seems quite demented as well, in that it is the exact opposite of the vast and vibrant nature of the Universe which can be experienced and utilized by those who aren't 'locked down' or afraid of it.

It is NOT surprising AT ALL that 'your' OWN RIGIDITY here, "lacewing", which IS BEING CLEARLY SHOWN, and SEEN, HAS BEEN HOLDING 'you' BACK, and 'LOCKING 'you' DOWN, COMPLETELY.

'you' have just CHOSEN to 'pick' ANOTHER 'story', and to just BELIEVE that 'your (CHOSEN) story' is the BETTER and MORE CORRECT one.

Which, to some, IS Truly A VERY DEMENTED WAY to LOOK AT and SEE 'things', AS WELL. And, VERY, VERY SAD and UNFORTUNATE, AS WELL, especially considering HOW CLOSE 'you' REALLY ARE to the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth of 'things' here, now.

[Age]

Thanks for sharing that Lacewing.

The only difference between your outlook on the universe of things and mine pretty much, is that I have a pro_found respect for what Christ went through to instil hope and faith in love for humanity.

Wait till 'you' come to EXPERIENCE, REALIZE, KNOW, and UNDERSTAND what the 'second coming' of "christ" ACTUALLY IS and ACTUALLY ENTAILS, then the 'pro-found respect' that 'you' have 'now' WILL BE overshadowed infinite fold.

"Christianity" as a man made construct that includes Christ teachings (rather poorly - as so much bigotry exists) can kiss my arse.

In the UK some people go to church every Sunday...Christ didn't say "do this every week to remember me.." - so I go once in a blue moon.

Did "jesus christ" SAY, 'to go and do this once in a blue moon'?

If yes, then ARE 'you' SURE?

But if no, then WHY go 'once in a blue moon'?

To me, it sounds like 'you' are JUST DOING what ALL adult human beings, in the days when this was being written, WERE DOING, that is; 'doing things', and then 'TRYING TO' "justify" 'those things', sometimes in and by what just CLAIMING that 'this' is what "jesus christ", (or another FOLLOWED one), WOULD want me TO DO.

I do my "faith" my way and that DOES NOT restrict me in my thoughts about this 'potential' you often mention of other things. It's nice to know that when someone I love passes away, that there are these lovely old churches that can be places where we can gain solace and contemplation for our deceased loved ones...

WHY can 'you' NOT just 'contemplate' a deceased so-called 'loved one' ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE on earth, or beyond?

And, are 'mosques', 'synagogues', or OTHER places just as so-called 'lovely' as 'old churches' are to 'you'?

If no, then WHY NOT?

Also, are 'old churches' the ONLY places on earth where 'you' can OBTAIN or GAIN 'solace', itself?

and this is thanks to the great man and what he went through - showing us we share our suffering, life is difficult but there is more to it.

BUT 'Life', Itself, and even living, itself, ARE NOT difficult, AT ALL.

Although 'you', adult human beings, seem to BELIEVE 'It' IS, and thus therefore can MAKE 'life' and living seem VERY, VERY DIFFICULT, and HARD.

If you think I am in some way restrained by the fact that I am a Christian, sure kindly point it out..

HOW, EXACTLY, 'you' ARE RESTRAINED can be SEEN here, VERY CLEARLY, in that 'you' CLAIM that the 'I' in the QUESTION, 'Who AM 'I'?' IS A "christian", which is OBVIOUSLY NOT True AT ALL, and thus VERY False, OBVIOUSLY.

[attofishpi]

<<TYPICAL RAMBLING CRAP>>

I ignore 99% of your posts - I didn't read a word of the above CRAP. so why bother putting in so much effort with me?

Someone should take away your access to electricity.

[Walker]

Do you really think Age has a choice?

[attofishpi]

Do you really think Age has a choice?

What? DO you THINK there ARE humans WHEN this WAS written THAT cannot DECIDE things FOR themselves?

[Walker]

Do you really think Age has a choice?

What? DO you THINK there ARE humans WHEN this WAS written THAT cannot DECIDE things FOR themselves?

The question I asked should be answered with a yes or no, for clarity. What you wrote doesn't meet that standard.

So, which is it? Yes, or no?

[attofishpi]

Do you really think Age has a choice?

What? DO you THINK there ARE humans WHEN this WAS written THAT cannot DECIDE things FOR themselves?

The question I asked should be answered with a yes or no, for clarity. What you wrote doesn't meet that standard.

So, which is it? Yes, or no?

You stated: Do you really think Age has a choice?

So, and again, WHAT exactly am I answering yes or no to? ...a choice about WHAT!?

[Walker]

About this:

<<TYPICAL RAMBLING CRAP>>

I ignore 99% of your posts - I didn't read a word of the above CRAP. so why bother putting in so much effort with me?

Someone should take away your access to electricity.

[attofishpi]

About this:

<<TYPICAL RAMBLING CRAP>>

I ignore 99% of your posts - I didn't read a word of the above CRAP. so why bother putting in so much effort with me?

Someone should take away your access to electricity.

Do you practice at being an imbecile or do you find it just comes naturally?

[Sculptor]

I was watching a show on TV tonight about the supposed Giants of Puma Punku, and the story goes that they were created from the dirt by a god, but then they angered the god, so the god sent a great flood to destroy them. How many times has such a story been used as a framework for beliefs, I wondered? Here's a list...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flood_myths

Do we human beings just not raise our awareness long enough to recognize how much of our beliefs are built on endlessly recycled stories? The intent of many such stories being religious lures for the fearful. How many repetitions do we need to go through before we move on from it?

Who's "we". I moved on when I was five years old.
It took a few more years to also chllenge the "belief" of nationhood, which is the primary cause of so many wars, then racism, then sexula predudice.
But I think by the time I was 10 I'd resigned most of human srupidity to the dustim of skepticism.

[Age]

Thanks for sharing that Lacewing.

I think it's interesting to look at the things we come through, and see how they set our path in motion... but not dwell on it because there is so much change that can happen in any moment.

The ONLY time ANY 'thing' IS FIXED, RIGID, or NOT CHANGING is A BELIEF, itself, while 'it' is HELD and MAINTAINED. Absolutely EVERY 'thing' ELSE IS CONSTANTLY-CHANGING, ALL OF THE TIME.

The only difference between your outlook on the universe of things and mine pretty much, is that I have a pro_found respect for what Christ went through to instil hope and faith in love for humanity.

Well, it's nice to know that there are things we agree on. I do not know that Jesus was any greater than so many other people and the sacrifices they have made for others. Nor that he was uniquely of God. And I do not know how much of a zealot he might have been. My understanding is that there were a lot of those in those days. If he was, instead, a progressive hippy dude, it would be great fun to sit and talk with him... and ask him what he thinks about the trip/journey he was on, and what he thinks about the ways in which it has been interpreted since?

So, one HAS TO BE a so-called 'progressive hippy dude' BEFORE 'you' will REALLY LISTEN TO 'them', and it would ONLY be 'that kind of dude' that would be 'great fun', for you, to sit and talk with, right?

For example, a so-called "zealot" might be SAYING the EXACT SAME 'thing' as a so-called "progressive hippy dud", but, to 'you', ONLY 'one' would be 'great fun' to sit and talk WITH. Although 'they' BOTH would be SAYING the SAME 'thing' and EXPRESSING the SAME 'message'.

Does he have any regrets? Did it turn out like he expected? Everything that is written is made up by man and re-interpreted for all kinds of purposes. What was the truth for Jesus?

I do my "faith" my way and that DOES NOT restrict me in my thoughts about this 'potential' you often mention of other things. It's nice to know that when someone I love passes away, that there are these lovely old churches that can be places where we can gain solace and contemplation for our deceased loved ones...

Very nice. I'm more inclined to go sit in nature, looking out at the mountains and sky, feeling that all is one and perfect.

WHO REALLY CARES, especially in a philosophy forum?

Or, are 'you' 'TRYING TO' SUGGEST here that 'this type of religion' IS somehow BETTER than the OTHER types of religions in GAINING and OBTAINING some TRUE perspective of ALL-THERE-IS?

I think Jesus might appreciate doing that.

Sitting in a human constructed building in a human constructed city is ALSO 'sitting IN Nature'. Some just do NOT LOOK AT and SEE 'things' the EXACT SAME WAY.

If you think I am in some way restrained by the fact that I am a Christian, sure kindly point it out..

I think we all are restrained at times by the things we hold onto too exclusively.

I am PRETTY SURE that 'this' IS an IRREFUTABLE True Fact.

If we aren't open to seeing more than that, we don't. And isn't there more in everything?

How can one, for example, be MORE OPEN, or MORE Honest?

If one is OPEN, and Honest, then what MORE could 'they' BE?

Layers, connections, phases... shifting and flowing like a sparkling stream of clear water... but we get mesmerized by the shimmer and the reflections and the physical sensations. Very intoxicating world we live in... with all of its stories. Can we sense the vast clarity underneath/behind all of that if we get our noise out of the way?

YES. AND, ALREADY DONE.

ALSO, HOW 'you', "lacewing", and "others", can GET RID OF 'your' OWN NOISE, completely, IS ALREADY KNOWN, and UNDERSTOOD.

[Age]

<<TYPICAL RAMBLING CRAP>>

I ignore 99% of your posts - I didn't read a word of the above CRAP. so why bother putting in so much effort with me?

LOL "attofishpi", can 'you' REALLY NOT YET SEE the LIE and CONTRADICTION in your statement and CLAIM here; 'I didn't read A word of the above CRAP'?

ALSO, NO ACTUAL so-called 'effort' is NEEDED to POINT OUT, QUESTION, SHOW, FIX UP, and/or Correct 'things'

Someone should take away your access to electricity.

WHY?

Then I would NOT be ABLE TO POINT OUT and SHOW the CONTRADICTIONS, like in this reply of 'yours' ONCE MORE.

[Lacewing]

Do we human beings just not raise our awareness long enough to recognize how much of our beliefs are built on endlessly recycled stories? The intent of many such stories being religious lures for the fearful. How many repetitions do we need to go through before we move on from it?

Who's "we". I moved on when I was five years old.
It took a few more years to also chllenge the "belief" of nationhood, which is the primary cause of so many wars, then racism, then sexula predudice.
But I think by the time I was 10 I'd resigned most of human srupidity to the dustim of skepticism.

That's great! I used the word 'we' to talk about human beings in general, obviously, and to indicate that I am one. For someone like yourself who moved on when you were 5 years old, why haven't you yet figured out how to NOT be an asshole? That's possible too, ya know.

[Lacewing]

<<TYPICAL RAMBLING CRAP>>

I ignore 99% of your posts - I didn't read a word of the above CRAP. so why bother putting in so much effort with me?

Someone should take away your access to electricity.

You and I agree on this too.