The Democrat Party Hates America

[Alexis Jacobi]

Republicans are making a mockery of the Democrats process by bring false claims against Biden in this sham impeachment.

One, it is an “impeachment inquiry”. It is not yet an impeachment.

Two, everyone should see that it has, or seems to have, a tit-for-tat retributive element in it.

In the present political battles — battles of real consequence — there seems to be no political tool that will be considered as “off the table”.

Again, it points back to the real nature of the battle. And that requires an analysis of power-systems.

That analysis is outside of your capabilities, Sculptor.

[commonsense]

Let's hope they screw the others properly.

One must take distance from these shallow and determined perspectives to be able to see with clarity.

What are the things that one would see with clarity if not absorbed by the shallow perspectives regarding election fraud in Georgia? What is it that is not clear to zealous observers? Seriously, it would help me to understand your position if you would enumerate or describe what you are talking about.

[Immanuel Can]

Republicans are making a mockery of the Democrats process by bring false claims against Biden in this sham impeachment.

One, it is an “impeachment inquiry”. It is not yet an impeachment.

Two, everyone should see that it has, or seems to have, a tit-for-tat retributive element in it.

In the present political battles — battles of real consequence — there seems to be no political tool that will be considered as “off the table”.

Again, it points back to the real nature of the battle. And that requires an analysis of power-systems.

That analysis is outside of your capabilities, Sculptor.

It's quite amazing to witness the partisanship, isn't it? Sculpy is certain that Trump is a criminal for having documents to which his role as president once entiteld him in his house; but Biden is not a criminal for having documents to which he had no entitlement, as VP, in his garage. Using the penal system to go after a political opponent is virtuous for Biden, but a vice for the Republicans. Demonstrated false Russia-collusion stories are fine as a way of smearing Trump; but things like the suppression of the laptop prior to the last election are "conspiracy theories" of election interference. And any investigation of Biden is automatically a "sham" and "false," even prior to investigation.

The guy simply can't be reasoned with. His commitment to "the Party" is simply the total orienting point of his thinking. Even the idea that both parties are corrupt, and neither deserves a pass, and that the American system itself needs to be summarily disinfected and flushed, simply escapes his ability to think.

[Alexis Jacobi]

What are the things that one would see with clarity if not absorbed by the shallow perspectives regarding election fraud in Georgia? What is it that is not clear to zealous observers? Seriously, it would help me to understand your position if you would enumerate or describe what you are talking about.

In my view the genuine grievances of those who were responsible for voting Trump into office originally. A better understanding (meaning an understanding) of the political, social and economic machinations that led to the weakening of the American working class.

An understanding of the social engineering projects through which a general and conservative social ideology was deliberately undermined over the last 60 years or so, turning an entire sector of the nation with other values into pariahs and retrogrades (deplorables) and provoking their reaction, leading to the present social crises.

Understanding that the information-provision apparatus (Google, the media systems, etc.) play a key role in social engineering and are controlled by entities and powers that one large sector of the population is deeply suspicious about and is gaining more awareness about, but which generally does not have enough clarity to name accurately, producing paranoid, partial views of a situation requiring a far fuller understanding.

A grasp of Critical Theory as an ideological tool the effect of which undermines the identity of that large section of the population I referred to, thus propelling them to seek identity-structures as a defensive and offensive reaction.

Unlimited and uncontrolled illegal immigration as a strategy to undermine a specific demographic sector, alienating them, and further contributing to their undermining in a political and social sense. All of this being perceived as “strategies” by the powerful (who initiate these processes) to undermine their sense of what is theirs. I.e. their nation. But also their destiny.

Seriously, it would help me to understand your position if you would enumerate or describe what you are talking about.

It is not “my” position but rather a developing view which is one part of what brought the MAGA movement onto the scene.

My view is less to defend and more to explain it. And I have only scratched the surface with a glossary review.

[promethean75]

"Sculpy is certain that Trump is a criminal for having documents to which his role as president once entiteld him in his house"

§2201. Definitions

As used in this chapter—

(1) The term "documentary material" means all books, correspondence, memoranda, documents, papers, pamphlets, works of art, models, pictures, photographs, plats, maps, films, and motion pictures, including, but not limited to, audio and visual records, or other electronic or mechanical recordations, whether in analog, digital, or any other form.

(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, the President's immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise or assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term—

(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of the President's staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but

(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) 1 of title 5, United States Code); (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.

(3) The term "personal records" means all documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion therof, 2 of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term includes—

(A) diaries, journals, or other personal notes serving as the functional equivalent of a diary or journal which are not prepared or utilized for, or circulated or communicated in the course of, transacting Government business;

(B) materials relating to private political associations, and having no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; and

(C) materials relating exclusively to the President's own election to the office of the Presidency; and materials directly relating to the election of a particular individual or individuals to Federal, State, or local office, which have no relation to or direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.

(4) The term "Archivist" means the Archivist of the United States.

(5) The term "former President", when used with respect to Presidential records, means the former President during whose term or terms of office such Presidential records were created.

§2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

[Lacewing]

What are the things that one would see with clarity if not absorbed by the shallow perspectives regarding election fraud in Georgia? What is it that is not clear to zealous observers? Seriously, it would help me to understand your position if you would enumerate or describe what you are talking about.

In my view the genuine grievances of those who were responsible for voting Trump into office originally. A better understanding (meaning an understanding) of the political, social and economic machinations that led to the weakening of the American working class.

Trump -- as a life-long narcissist, pathological liar, and wanna-be dictator, who openly cheats and doesn't pay his workers -- is as responsible for the erosion of values as much as anyone. But even worse, he is a buffoon... and this is who this group of people rallies behind to support their cause? He has essentially turned his followers into extremist mindless zombies... and you think other people should take that seriously? He doesn't even represent them! How about if they showed they have some clarity by rejecting him and what he stands for? Instead of doubling-down on the insanity to follow him over the cliff and destroy their own credibility.

An understanding of the social engineering projects through which a general and conservative social ideology was deliberately undermined over the last 60 years or so

Are you aware that human evolution is not meant to stand still? What do you think needs to stay the same? Why isn't it possible (in your view) to expand and move forward while retaining the values that don't limit our expansion and forward movement? You complain about your view being undermined... yet you undermine the views of others.

How do we find a middle-ground that honors multiple perspectives? First-off, get some good representatives that ACTUALLY represent the values of the group of people they are affiliated with, while also making it clear that the leader of the country represents ALL people! The extremist divisive poison is at the root of the problem.

What can you imagine that would be a less divisive attitude -- and would honor a broader range of perspectives? Is that possible? Or do you see anything other than your viewpoint as deficient and as straying from some optimal model we must preserve... as if it were the pinnacle of human creation?

Can you agree that there is nothing wrong with people having different perspectives for how they want to live... and that these should not be imposed on other people? Is it reasonable that I do not want religious beliefs limiting my life in this current day and age of more diverse thinking?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Those are 5 fairly concise paragraphs with — though hyperventilated — not bad questions and pronouncements combined! Or are they pronouncements and pseudo-questions?

You do show all your personal affiliations of course. And as I have pointed out previously you are an example of someone who has internalized predicate-sets which you associate with the metaphysical good. That’s fine except others have a very very different base for their predicates and their values.

The better this is understood, the more insight one will have into such conflicts. And some conflicts, I must say, are non-resolvable.

In any case I see a route to offer comments on each paragraph and will do so later.

NB: It would be inaccurate to describe me as a “Trump supporter”. I prefer to see myself as an “explainer” of the present social crisis.

(Also I do not think IC is a “supporter” either. Walker does seem to be one though).

[Lacewing]

Those are 5 fairly concise paragraphs with — though hyperventilated

wtf? Why do you say that? It's stupid and false, and shows you to be so hopelessly addicted to being a rude asshole. Yet you want people to respect what you say? This demonstrates exactly what I was talking about. Now I don't care what your response is, so you can save yourself the trouble.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I say that because that is the impression I got from your questions mingled with extremely strong opinions. Some of us, for different reasons mind you, notice when we believe we encounter someone with TDS. You come across as one. If I have you pegged wrong do let me know.

I am not closed to critique of Trump. But there are indeed others who describe the man very differently.

(Thus the word “hyperventilated”).

[Lacewing]

I say that because that is the impression I got from your questions mingled with extremely strong opinions.

Oh, is that different from what you or many other posters do?

[Alexis Jacobi]

and shows you to be so hopelessly addicted to being a rude asshole. Yet you want people to respect what you say?

Addicted? I assure you I can quit anytime!

As per usual you make things personal. Choose not to get your panties in a bundle is my advice.

I do not seek to be respected through my tone or delivery. If an idea has merit it stands on its own — or doesn’t.

[Lacewing]

I do not seek to be respected through my tone or delivery.

Mission accomplished.

If an idea has merit it stands on its own — or doesn’t.

That would explain why your ideas repeatedly fall flat.

[Lacewing]

and shows you to be so hopelessly addicted to being a rude asshole. Yet you want people to respect what you say?

Addicted? I assure you I can quit anytime!

That's what addicts say.

As per usual you make things personal.

It's not personal at all. You being a pretentious dick is on wide display.

[henry quirk]

Trump -- as a life-long narcissist, pathological liar, and wanna-be dictator, who openly cheats and doesn't pay his workers -- is as responsible for the erosion of values as much as anyone. But even worse, he is a buffoon... and this is who this group of people rallies behind to support their cause? He has essentially turned his followers into extremist mindless zombies... and you think other people should take that seriously? He doesn't even represent them! How about if they showed they have some clarity by rejecting him and what he stands for? Instead of doubling-down on the insanity to follow him over the cliff and destroy their own credibility.

he's not a real alternative.

When you look past the public displays by talkin' heads and MAGA leaders, I think you find folks who hired him once, tried to hire him again, and who'll try to hire him next year, know he's not an alternative.

He's, to them, as I say, their Fuck You.

Would it be better if those talking heads were all saying, it's just a fuck you, there's no need to think of Trump as a real option?

Sure. Such an observation might lead them to ask why are a great many ORANGE MAN voters are sayin' Fuck You to the powers that be? They might ask why are these voters not seeking a true alternative?

They don't ask becuz they won't like the answer.

Simply: these voters have voted harder over and over and it got them nowhere. They have no faith in the system except as a waning bulwark against the very folks who are supposed to represent them. They see no alternatives. Trump is sugar in the enemy's gas tank for these voters. They don't care about the man or his fitness for office. He's a Big Middie Finger. And while ORANGE MAN takes heat and riles up the enemy, the enemy is largely leavin' these voters alone.

And they don't think he's actually a very good guy who will help them and support their interests?

As I say: these voters have voted harder over and over and it got them nowhere. They have no faith in the system except as a waning bulwark against the very folks who are supposed to represent them. They see no alternatives. Trump is sugar in the enemy's gas tank for these voters. They don't care about the man or his fitness for office. He's a Big Middie Finger. And while ORANGE MAN takes heat and riles up the enemy, the enemy is largely leavin' these voters alone.

*

How do we find a middle-ground that honors multiple perspectives? First-off, get some good representatives that ACTUALLY represent the values of the group of people they are affiliated with, while also making it clear that the leader of the country represents ALL people! The extremist divisive poison is at the root of the problem.

Describe this middle ground. How can a leader represent all the people in a country where Repubs and Dems, progressives and conservatives, communists and libertarians, atheists and theists, live openly and at odds?

*

Can you agree that there is nothing wrong with people having different perspectives for how they want to live... and that these should not be imposed on other people? Is it reasonable that I do not want religious beliefs limiting my life in this current day and age of more diverse thinking?

Politics, by definition, government, by definition, favors the winner. In both, there can be no these should not be imposed on other people.

[Lacewing]

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump ... 9ea1079f11

'ANAHEIM, Calif. (AP) — In an occasionally dark and profane speech, Donald Trump on Friday sought to win over Republicans in California by complaining that rich people in Beverly Hills smell bad because they’re denied water, reiterating lies about widespread election fraud and calling on police to shoot people robbing stores.

While many of his remarks at the California Republican Party convention in Anaheim were familiar retreads of Trump’s attacks and grievances, his encouragement of violent retribution against criminals marked an escalation of his longstanding tough-on-crime message.'

If he's really tough on crime:

What punishment would he suggest for the demonstrators who attacked the Capitol? Should they have been shot?

Should all criminals be shot? Or just people other than himself (and possibly his supporters)?

Seriously, how stupid and obvious does this need to get to face the truth about him?