woke

[commonsense]

Here's something we can explore. It would involve some incredibly honest answers:

If God said to you, "kill Gary". Would you do it, IC? And if you asked God, "why" and God refused to give you a reason, would you accept the command regardless? I'd like to hear what you would do in such a situation.

Let's get honest, then.

How would this "saying" be conveyed? Do you mean if God appeared in a vision? Or if the Bible said, "Thou shalt kill Gary?" Or do you mean that some ecclesiastical poser told me that God had told him, "We need to kill Gary?"

And can you conceive of a scenario in which the God who made Gary would want me to kill Gary?

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out the terms of your hypothetical.

There’s no vision, no Bible, no ecclesiastical poser. It says, in plain English right there in the post, “God said to you.” There’s no conveyance to be considered.

And the easiest scenario in which God wants Gary to be killed is the scenario in which God’s motives are completely unknowable.

Let’s get honest and dispense with your deflective questions. Pull up your big boy pants and answer the question.

[Sculptor]

Here's something we can explore. It would involve some incredibly honest answers:

If God said to you, "kill Gary". Would you do it, IC? And if you asked God, "why" and God refused to give you a reason, would you accept the command regardless? I'd like to hear what you would do in such a situation.

Let's get honest, then.

How would this "saying" be conveyed? Do you mean if God appeared in a vision? Or if the Bible said, "Thou shalt kill Gary?" Or do you mean that some ecclesiastical poser told me that God had told him, "We need to kill Gary?"

And can you conceive of a scenario in which the God who made Gary would want me to kill Gary?

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out the terms of your hypothetical.

There’s no vision, no Bible, no ecclesiastical poser. It says, in plain English right there in the post, “God said to you.” There’s no conveyance to be considered.

And the easiest scenario in which God wants Gary to be killed is the scenario in which God’s motives are completely unknowable.

Let’s get honest and dispense with your deflective questions. Pull up your big boy pants and answer the question.

IC only wears short trousers.

[commonsense]

Let's get honest, then.

How would this "saying" be conveyed? Do you mean if God appeared in a vision? Or if the Bible said, "Thou shalt kill Gary?" Or do you mean that some ecclesiastical poser told me that God had told him, "We need to kill Gary?"

And can you conceive of a scenario in which the God who made Gary would want me to kill Gary?

I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out the terms of your hypothetical.

Well, apparently God did something similar to Abraham.

Except He didn't. Isaac lived, as you must surely recall, if you know the story.

For sake of argument, let's say God miraculously materialized in front of you in such a way that you would have no doubt it was God. Would you kill me for no apparent reason, other than it was God's will?

Well, hy would the God who commanded, "Thou shalt not murder," ask me to murder Gary?

I guess I'm not getting the gist of your hypothetical. I'm not sure it's even something reasonable to suppose.

Yes, Isaac lived but only after God told Abraham to kill him. That’s precisely like Gary’s scenario.

And as for why God would order Abraham to kill Isaac, well God is inscrutable.

[Gary Childress]

Except He didn't. Isaac lived, as you must surely recall, if you know the story.

Well, hy would the God who commanded, "Thou shalt not murder," ask me to murder Gary?

I guess I'm not getting the gist of your hypothetical. I'm not sure it's even something reasonable to suppose.

What difference does any of that make?

It made a big difference to Isaac, I'm certain.

Let's say it's a command from God to the best of your reckoning. Would you obey such a command from God if it was given or would you not? It's just a "yes" or "no" question.

"It's just a yes or no question." Yes, I'm familiar with that line.

It means, "Don't question my assumptions; you're only allowed to accept them. And if you don't, I'll accuse you of being evasive."

I'm just wondering how that scenario makes any sense. Why would the God who created you want you dead, Gary? And why would He need me to do it? It seems to me that your very existence proves His intentions were otherwise.

OK. So what more information do you need from me in order to sufficiently answer whether or not you would obey a command from God to kill me? I'm not really understanding how hard such a question is. For my part, if God himself came up and told me to kill someone and wouldn't give me a satisfactory reason of why I should do it, then I wouldn't do it. If God unequivocally did the same to you, would you do it?

[popeye1945]

If there were a god it would be an oppressive situation, one that certainly wouldn't be desirable, one does not say no to the creator of the cosmos; it would a slave master relationship as it is for many believers today.

[Gary Childress]

one does not say no to the creator of the cosmos;.

Heck, even if it WERE the creator of the cosmos, I wouldn't do it without an unequivocally clear and sufficient reason. For all I know, given this world, the creator of the cosmos may not have good intentions.

[popeye1945]

one does not say no to the creator of the cosmos.

Heck, even if it WERE the creator of the cosmos, I wouldn't do it without an unequivocally clear and sufficient reason. For all I know, given this world, the creator of the cosmos may not have good intentions.

Then I would have to smite you, you're too rational to be a Christian!

[Immanuel Can]

And the easiest scenario in which God wants Gary to be killed is the scenario in which God’s motives are completely unknowable.

Except that's not the world I live in. In the world in which I live, God has spoken and has made a whole bunch of things about Himself and His wishes known, such as "Thou shalt not murder," for a start. So I think Gary's talking about something that for me, can't happen.

[Immanuel Can]

Yes, Isaac lived but only after God told Abraham to kill him. That’s precisely like Gary’s scenario.

And as for why God would order Abraham to kill Isaac, well God is inscrutable.

Not so much, in this case. I think there are reasons given in the context, reasons that have to do with the kind of relationship God wanted with Abraham.

But that gets explored well in Kierkegaard's book, Fear and Trembling, if you're interested.

[Immanuel Can]

I'm not really understanding how hard such a question is.

I can understand that, Gary. For you, God isn't a Person.

That's the problem with the blank placeholder "the God concept." That concept, as a mere concept, has no particular nature, identity or wishes. It has no self-revelation, no commandments, no particular commitments.

It is an "it"; and and "it" might be capable of anything.

But what I understand as the one true God is not like that. So I'm having a little difficulty plugging my conception of who God is into your question. But it doesn't seem you want me to answer with reference to a "god" I don't believe in; I rather think you mean to ask me what I'd do in view of the God in whom I personally believe, no?

So I ask myself, why would the God who made Gary want me to extinguish Gary, contrary to His express wishes? And I'm having a little trouble rendering the question coherent. I don't think God does want that, or ever would. He's made it quite clear that what judgment there is, it's to come from Him. And even were Gary my sworn enemy, which He's not, my duty would be clear: to love my enemy, and do good to him, even if he's spiteful. (Luke 6:27)

[Agent Smith]

Abortion is the key issue when it comes to wokeism.

[Gary Childress]

I'm not really understanding how hard such a question is.

I can understand that, Gary. For you, God isn't a Person.

That's the problem with the blank placeholder "the God concept." That concept, as a mere concept, has no particular nature, identity or wishes. It has no self-revelation, no commandments, no particular commitments.

It is an "it"; and and "it" might be capable of anything.

But what I understand as the one true God is not like that. So I'm having a little difficulty plugging my conception of who God is into your question. But it doesn't seem you want me to answer with reference to a "god" I don't believe in; I rather think you mean to ask me what I'd do in view of the God in whom I personally believe, no?

So I ask myself, why would the God who made Gary want me to extinguish Gary, contrary to His express wishes? And I'm having a little trouble rendering the question coherent. I don't think God does want that, or ever would. He's made it quite clear that what judgment there is, it's to come from Him. And even were Gary my sworn enemy, which He's not, my duty would be clear: to love my enemy, and do good to him, even if he's spiteful. (Luke 6:27)

Maybe God wants you to extinguish me because I won't worship him. Who knows? Maybe instead of doing his own dirty work, God wants you to do it for him, like he had the Israelites do to the Amalekites. Maybe that's what the great Christian George Bush Jr. was doing to the people of the Middle East on God's behalf, murdering them because they wouldn't accept Christ as Bush apparently had done. Who knows?

In any case, I applaud your reluctance to commit violence. It's admirable. There are certainly Christians out there who seem to have (had) little problem smiting the unholy. I was at a church service a few months back where the pastor asked if there were any military veterans in the congregation that morning. When no one raised their hand he seemed sort of embarrassed or disappointed, "really, no one?" he exclaimed in a tone that sounded rather incredulous, as though it's some great Christly honor to have people in the audience who served in an institution with little other purpose than to kill other human beings.

[Dontaskme]

Act like you made yourself.

the God who created you.

In other words, IC is saying...

The God who created ''you'' can be no other than a pretender, the only action-man available, so it seems. And that ''you'' the actor, is only ever acting a role ''you'' were created to do, because only a dummy can play the part of a dummy.

In other words...IC is saying...there are no real actors acting out here at all...there is only God's artificial actors.

God created a pretender, a fictional character to be life's real fake action man.

Nice philosophy IC ... the dais you are using to convey this rather unusual addictive story is the mind in mourning.


The absurdity of language.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Maybe God wants you to extinguish me because I won't worship him. Who knows?

You’d need yo become an “Edomite” and to oppose the Jewish people and god’s mission in this world in order to get for yourself god’s fatwa. God (in a story!) gave instructions to ritually sacrifice Isaac but with the intention of staying his hand. But god gave orders to totally destroy Canaan.

But Edom is really the earthly enemy of Judaism and thus of the Yahweh you often refer to.

Traditional enemies of the Israelites, the Edomites were the descendants of Esau who often battled the Jewish nation. Edom was in southeast Palestine, stretched from the Red Sea at Elath to the Dead Sea, and encompassed some of Israel's most fertile land. The Edomites attacked Israel under Saul's rulership. King David would later defeat the rogue nation, annexing their land. At the fall of the First Temple, the Edomites attacked Judah and looted the Temple, accelerating its destruction. The Edomites were later forcibly converted into Judaism by John Hyrcanus, and then became an active part of the Jewish people. Famous Edomites include Herod, who built the Second Temple.

Esau the Ancestor of Rome

Yahweh, when understood, is a particular will for this world. If you oppose that will, you are the Enemy.

So in order to get god’s fatwa you are going to have to be far less wishy-washy!

Properly understood, Immanuel is really more Jewish than Christian. Or his Evangelical Christianity serves Jewish purposes and will.

In order to get god’s real wrath you will have to try harder, son. Only then, when you’ve clearly shown you are the Enemy, could god instruct Immanuel to oppose you with (righteous) force.

Then the foam bat of gentle discourse might be replaced with, say, the Negev NG-7.

[Gary Childress]

Maybe God wants you to extinguish me because I won't worship him. Who knows?

You’d need yo become an “Edomite” and to oppose the Jewish people and god’s mission in this world in order to get for yourself god’s fatwa. God (in a story!) gave instructions to ritually sacrifice Isaac but with the intention of staying his hand. But god gave orders to totally destroy Canaan.

But Edom is really the earthly enemy of Judaism and thus of the Yahweh you often refer to.

Traditional enemies of the Israelites, the Edomites were the descendants of Esau who often battled the Jewish nation. Edom was in southeast Palestine, stretched from the Red Sea at Elath to the Dead Sea, and encompassed some of Israel's most fertile land. The Edomites attacked Israel under Saul's rulership. King David would later defeat the rogue nation, annexing their land. At the fall of the First Temple, the Edomites attacked Judah and looted the Temple, accelerating its destruction. The Edomites were later forcibly converted into Judaism by John Hyrcanus, and then became an active part of the Jewish people. Famous Edomites include Herod, who built the Second Temple.

Esau the Ancestor of Rome

Yahweh, when understood, is a particular will for this world. If you oppose that will, you are the Enemy.

So in order to get god’s fatwa you are going to have to be far less wishy-washy!

Properly understood, Immanuel is really more Jewish than Christian. Or his Evangelical Christianity serves Jewish purposes and will.

In order to get god’s real wrath you will have to try harder, son. Only then, when you’ve clearly shown you are the Enemy, could god instruct Immanuel to oppose you with (righteous) force.

Then the foam bat of gentle discourse might be replaced with, say, the Negev NG-7.

Heck, maybe I'm an Edomite. I don't know all of whom my ancestors slept with.