Christianity

[Alexis Jacobi]

A Humanist friend came from an extended family of observant Jews. He himself was educated to post graduate level and was politically left wing.He was slightly amused as his Jewish relations and their quaint customs. It would be really misleading to have called him a Jew.

I assume you and your friends ate out from time to time? Did he tip as a humanist ... or?

[Alexis Jacobi]

In any case I've got a joke.

SO THERE WAS this man -- Amos Levi was his name (not, as you are thinking, of Eskimo descent) and he had a most marvellous St Bernard who carried on like an Observant Jew. Amos ended up moving to a new city and, naturally, on Friday eve went to the closest synagogue -- with his dog of course as was his habit.

"Hold it there! You can't go in with the dog!" said the shamash. "You can go in but the dog'll have to stay outside."

"No no no, you don't understand, this dog is fully obervant. Watch..."

He said something to him in dog and immediately the dog opened his St Bernard barrel, took out siddur, kippa, tallit and tefillin and, to the shock of the shamash began to daven.

"Whoa! This is incredible. That is an incredible dog. Look, get his act on TV and you'd make a MILLION!"

With a (classically Jewish) shrug the said "Talk to him, will ya? He tells me he wants to be a dentist!"

[Alexis Jacobi]

BTW (for the sake of FlashDangerPants) I present here the authorized Gentile response to that joke:

"DIE NAZI SCUM!!!"

[phyllo]

A Humanist friend came from an extended family of observant Jews. He himself was educated to post graduate level and was politically left wing.He was slightly amused as his Jewish relations and their quaint customs. It would be really misleading to have called him a Jew.

You don't think he learned and retained anything from his extended Jewish family?

He has no Jewish culture, philosophy or attitude?

He did not seem any different from other friends and was interested in the same things as other Humanists. I also had school classmates who were Jewish refugees(I learned later) and they seemed no different from anyone else.

So if all non-Jews in the UK were replaced by Jews , then it would not change the country in any way? (other than that churches would be converted to synagogues).

[Alexis Jacobi]

Hmmmmmm. Bagels for chippies — that’s a hard sell Phyllo.

[Gary Childress]

You don't think he learned and retained anything from his extended Jewish family?

He has no Jewish culture, philosophy or attitude?

He did not seem any different from other friends and was interested in the same things as other Humanists. I also had school classmates who were Jewish refugees(I learned later) and they seemed no different from anyone else.

So if all non-Jews in the UK were replaced by Jews , then it would not change the country in any way? (other than that churches would be converted to synagogues).

Somehow I doubt there's much danger of that happening. Eventually, every single human alive today will be "replaced" by a younger generation in the furure. And I doubt they'll all be Jews. I think I saw that France is currently 95% white European. The US is about 75% and there hasn't been a zombie apocalypse yet.

[phyllo]

He did not seem any different from other friends and was interested in the same things as other Humanists. I also had school classmates who were Jewish refugees(I learned later) and they seemed no different from anyone else.

So if all non-Jews in the UK were replaced by Jews , then it would not change the country in any way? (other than that churches would be converted to synagogues).

Somehow I doubt there's much danger of that happening. Eventually, every single human alive today will be "replaced" by a younger generation in the furure. And I doubt they'll all be Jews. I think I saw that France is currently 95% white European. The US is about 75% and there hasn't been a zombie apocalypse yet.

It's a thought experiment designed to make people think about whether there are any differences between Jews and everyone else. It can also be applied to men and women, democracy and communism, etc. Oh and of course races

[Alexis Jacobi]

I think I saw that France is currently 95% white European. The US is about 75% and there hasn't been a zombie apocalypse yet.

I’m correcting your figures though this should not be taken to mean I am opposed to the Zombie Apocalypse.

(For God’s sake what do you take me for?)

Diversity between the dead and the living (or the somewhat dead or the partially alive) is our strength.

USA: about 70% +|-

France: the state does not seek or keep ‘race’ records but close to 85% +|-

[attofishpi]

I've only every met one in Australia - a lovely old fella in my local shops and I said to him to tell the boss I'll try and start behaving, to which he smiled.

I doubt he grasped that you were talking about the AI program known as 'God' which overrules everything we see. Next time you see him remember to clarify that.

To be honest, when I saw him again in the next aisle he was arguing with a woman that I assumed to be his wife (I think he thought I was referring to her, as in we were having an affair ).

Anyway, for the record I don't believe God to be Point 2. of my argument (purely AI). I believe God to be divine but uses something akin to AI (God can have tech right?) as part of his stuff.

Oh, finally I just remembered what he said to me this morning as I lay in bed with the dog trying to get me up. So I had this amazing dream where I was in this massive castle - most of us started this game, random people (it was a real life game based on a computer game) - and we were all in the central garden collecting loot - objects magical etc that we would need to get through the adventure. I was doing really well because I got into the area quite early, I got a nice ornate but more importantly large box, to store all sorts of magical orbs and stuff. Anyway I won't go into what happened but it was so much fun.

So, as I was considering getting up this was said, "Did you enjoy that?"

RE: The AI thing. About two years ago, I was awoken around 2am and this voice said something, and I said something (in my head) and an image flashed in my minds eye, and I thought something related and then 'it' said something...and then I said "There is no way humans are involved in this, you are a bloody AI." - to which 'it' responded, "You're good!" - which I presume means that I was correct.

[attofishpi]

Nah, I saw some of those dudes in NY - first Jews I ever saw in the flesh - I liked the look. (I like to know what kind of a nutjob someone is, and I don't mean they're all nuts, but some of them must have some bloody weird ideas about God)

Orthodox, practicing Jews in New York?? You surely must be kidding, right?

Bloody weird ideas about god? Can you start with the un-weird ones so I know what we're talking about?

Good point.

[attofishpi]

Most of them don't believe Jesus did as the Messiah was supposed to do (and was not in fact their Messiah from...dunno what? the Torah?) - Obviously overlooking the fact that their land of Israel was provided by the lovely Christian nation (that Jesus obviously set up as part of the master promise) - England - and is still protected by many predominantly Christian nations - ergo the Messiah did as promised.

A Jew who believes in Jesus is no longer a Jew but a Christian. Good work Atto!

True, the Orthodox Jewish notion of Moshiach is radically different from anything Christian so Jesus cannot be seen as that figure. Given what resulted to Judea (Exile) and Jewish experience in Europe at the hands of Christians, Jews don't have too many options left but to define Jesus Christ as a demon. And those associated with this figure as demonic. Within strictly Orthodox Judaism this, of course, defines what Jews at this level believe about both Jesus Christ and Christians.

No Christian did anything contrary to the teachings of Christ in Europe, or what did you have in mind?

No Orthodox Jew would ever say that Israel was 'provided' by England but only that Israel was given to Jews by god. This, and 'chosenness', are the two core pillars of Judaism. You have inadvertently done some stunning work! You seem capable of much more. Is it best to 1) keep the bottle corked, o r2) uncork it and proceed? What works best for you?

Well, the orthodox ones are the loons, so no point in arguing with them the veracity of what is the truth.

Option 2) please.

But you have encountered one non-minor problem. That is when we focus *within the narratives*. If you believe the traditional narratives then the Exile of Jews from Judea which, in Christian interpretation, resulted in Exile and the destruction of the former Jewish temple, then only god could restore the Jews to Israel in our present.

So does it follow that a) because there is a Jewish nation now reestablished in Judea that god did this? and b) is the god who did this the same Moshiach the Jews predict will come? But c) if the Jews are indeed in Israel (again) what then is the function of Moshaich since Israel is a fait accompli?

a) = correct b) = CAME ..btw, I think he spends most of his time in California these days) c) Well I hear He pots the white ball, so at least He doesnt cheat at pool. (oh I forgot, yes mission accomplished re somewhere for Jews to kip and stuff -- however, they should all now be Christians, including the rest of the infidels).

NB: All the above is thanks to the great Christian nation of England. (oh shit, and of course that Moshiach chap)

[attofishpi]

What's Judaism got to do with it?

What's Judaism got to do with what? Being a Jew? Jeepers I'd never thought of it in that way.

::: thinking really hard :::

"What does Judaism got to do with being a Jew???"

I give up. It's too hard a question Atto! Can you shoot me an easier one?!?

I thought you were asking what flavours Jews come in (some are into Judaism, some aren't)

Was I asking that? Wait, do I have a double here who also post under my username asking trick questions? I regard that as dastardly!

But we seem to be back to something interesting: some Jews are *into Judaism*. But then some aren't. Does being a Jew depend on being *into Judaism*? Wait, what's a Jew? I'd have thought a Jew by definition would have to be 'into Judaism'. But I am learning so much here today! (Are you getting these answers from the Chat A!?!?)

Nah, since the menstrual cycles thing it's obvious the Chat AI is never wrong (but here I presume I could be).

When a Jew is no longer 'into Judaism' what becomes of that Jew? On what basis does he (or she) remain a Jew? If all Jews became 'not into' Judaism would they remain Jews?

So many questions!

Well finally, so Jew is not only considered by some DNA thang - it's whether they believe in at least some of the tenets of Judaism!

I think I might learn something today, this could be a good day.

[Dubious]

Also, God's truly special people means God's chosen? Chosen for what?

If 'Chosen' means not knowing what one is chosen for, make it generic. It's always been the easiest way, en masse, to include all specificities in a non-specific way without giving a reason for any of them, since there is no specific reason for any distinct group to be chosen...by any power we've chosen to choose.

[attofishpi]

In any case I've got a joke.

SO THERE WAS this man -- Amos Levi was his name (not, as you are thinking, of Eskimo descent) and he had a most marvellous St Bernard who carried on like an Observant Jew. Amos ended up moving to a new city and, naturally, on Friday eve went to the closest synagogue -- with his dog of course as was his habit.

"Hold it there! You can't go in with the dog!" said the shamash. "You can go in but the dog'll have to stay outside."

"No no no, you don't understand, this dog is fully obervant. Watch..."

He said something to him in dog and immediately the dog opened his St Bernard barrel, took out siddur, kippa, tallit and tefillin and, to the shock of the shamash began to daven.

"Whoa! This is incredible. That is an incredible dog. Look, get his act on TV and you'd make a MILLION!"

With a (classically Jewish) shrug the said "Talk to him, will ya? He tells me he wants to be a dentist!"

LMAO!!!

(..I was so relieved I didn't need to look up all those Jewish terms either!)

[Alexis Jacobi]

(..I was so relieved I didn't need to look up all those

Alabado sea Alá!