Christianity

[Alexis Jacobi]

How am I doing so far?

Not so good really. For the simple reason that you have not got to the heart of the issue. You are mentioning set of superficial traits. But you are failing to get to the core of what makes a Jew a Jew. So I assume that you (and likely everyone writing on this thread) has no essential definition of what Judaism is. Therefore, functionally, they are on the 'outside' of the entire question. Why would they bother to be concerned about things Jewish then? What is the angle?

Many think they are God's true special people, and are rather arrogant about it.

Really? Have you ever encountered one that expressed this arrogance to you?

Also, God's truly special people means God's chosen? Chosen for what?

[Harbal]

Some wear funny hats and have funny plats.

I really hate that look. It annoys me no end when I see it.

[attofishpi]

How am I doing so far?

Not so good really. For the simple reason that you have not got to the heart of the issue. You are mentioning set of superficial traits. But you are failing to get to the core of what makes a Jew a Jew. So I assume that you (and likely everyone writing on this thread) has no essential definition of what Judaism is. Therefore, functionally, they are on the 'outside' of the entire question. Why would they bother to be concerned about things Jewish then? What is the angle?

What's Judaism got to do with it? I thought you were asking what flavours Jews come in (some are into Judaism, some arn't)

Many think they are God's true special people, and are rather arrogant about it.

Really? Have you ever encountered one that expressed this arrogance to you? [/quote]

I've only every met one in Australia - a lovely old fella in my local shops and I said to him to tell the boss I'll try and start behaving, to which he smiled.

But re the arrogance I have only heard of it, via utube interviews with a worker\victim of J Epstein. - some rumours also.

Oh yes, and let's not forget that utube interview I posted of that poor Jewish girl and he plight being raised by the Jew religious nutjob parents (you confirmed you had also already seen that one)

Also, God's truly special people means God's chosen? Chosen for what?

Well I'd like the answer to that (chosen for what). I just though that because they received "1st contact" way back in the day, and some guidance, that made some these days - likely the very religious ones as being that ' hey we're God's special dudes, type of attitube - above the rest of the rest of us muppets.

[attofishpi]

Some wear funny hats and have funny plats.

I really hate that look. It annoys me no end when I see it.

Nah, I saw some of those dudes in NY - first Jews I ever saw in the flesh - I liked the look. (I like to know what kind of a nutjob someone is, and I don't mean they're all nuts, but some of them must have some bloody weird ideas about God)

[attofishpi]

Most of them don't believe Jesus did as the Messiah was supposed to do (and was not in fact their Messiah from...dunno what? the Torah?) - Obviously overlooking the fact that their land of Israel was provided by the lovely Christian nation (that Jesus obviously set up as part of the master promise) - England - and is still protected by many predomonminatly Christian nations - ergo the Messiah did as promised.

By the way Alexis, I came up with the above all on my own noggins. What do you think? Have you ever heard this type of statement before? (I have posted it in this thread a long time ago)


(I am so annoyed with myself - all that deep n funny stuff on the previous page I wrote I accidentally deleted when I copied the above..maybe it wasnt funny, and I pissed God off!)

[Immanuel Can]

An "Evolutionist" is not every denier of Creation, it's an indoctrinated adherent of the Darwinian narrative.

What is your story?

I don't believe you don't know the answers to those questions. If you didn't, it would mean you knew nothing about Darwin or evolution at all.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I've only every met one in Australia - a lovely old fella in my local shops and I said to him to tell the boss I'll try and start behaving, to which he smiled.

I doubt he grasped that you were talking about the AI program known as 'God' which overrules everything we see. Next time you see him remember to clarify that.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Nah, I saw some of those dudes in NY - first Jews I ever saw in the flesh - I liked the look. (I like to know what kind of a nutjob someone is, and I don't mean they're all nuts, but some of them must have some bloody weird ideas about God)

Orthodox, practicing Jews in New York?? You surely must be kidding, right?

Bloody weird ideas about god? Can you start with the un-weird ones so I know what we're talking about?

[Alexis Jacobi]

Most of them don't believe Jesus did as the Messiah was supposed to do (and was not in fact their Messiah from...dunno what? the Torah?) - Obviously overlooking the fact that their land of Israel was provided by the lovely Christian nation (that Jesus obviously set up as part of the master promise) - England - and is still protected by many predominantly Christian nations - ergo the Messiah did as promised.

A Jew who believes in Jesus is no longer a Jew but a Christian. Good work Atto!

True, the Orthodox Jewish notion of Moshiach is radically different from anything Christian so Jesus cannot be seen as that figure. Given what resulted to Judea (Exile) and Jewish experience in Europe at the hands of Christians, Jews don't have too many options left but to define Jesus Christ as a demon. And those associated with this figure as demonic. Within strictly Orthodox Judaism this, of course, defines what Jews at this level believe about both Jesus Christ and Christians.

No Orthodox Jew would ever say that Israel was 'provided' by England but only that Israel was given to Jews by god. This, and 'chosenness', are the two core pillars of Judaism. You have inadvertently done some stunning work! You seem capable of much more. Is it best to 1) keep the bottle corked, o r2) uncork it and proceed? What works best for you?

But you have encountered one non-minor problem. That is when we focus *within the narratives*. If you believe the traditional narratives then the Exile of Jews from Judea which, in Christian interpretation, resulted in Exile and the destruction of the former Jewish temple, then only god could restore the Jews to Israel in our present.

So does it follow that a) because there is a Jewish nation now reestablished in Judea that god did this? and b) is the god who did this the same Moshiach the Jews predict will come? But c) if the Jews are indeed in Israel (again) what then is the function of Moshaich since Israel is a fait accompli?

[Alexis Jacobi]

What's Judaism got to do with it?

What's Judaism got to do with what? Being a Jew? Jeepers I'd never thought of it in that way.

::: thinking really hard :::

"What does Judaism got to do with being a Jew???"

I give up. It's too hard a question Atto! Can you shoot me an easier one?!?

I thought you were asking what flavours Jews come in (some are into Judaism, some aren't)

Was I asking that? Wait, do I have a double here who also post under my username asking trick questions? I regard that as dastardly!

But we seem to be back to something interesting: some Jews are *into Judaism*. But then some aren't. Does being a Jew depend on being *into Judaism*? Wait, what's a Jew? I'd have thought a Jew by definition would have to be 'into Judaism'. But I am learning so much here today! (Are you getting these answers from the Chat A!?!?)

When a Jew is no longer 'into Judaism' what becomes of that Jew? On what basis does he (or she) remain a Jew? If all Jews became 'not into' Judaism would they remain Jews?

So many questions!

[Lacewing]

...

Look Immanuel, dattaswami uses the same logic you do... but he's taking it to the next level with technology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io0Hn-750VM

[Gary Childress]

What I would like (I too have likes) would be for you, without searching on the topic, to write out what a Jew is. Again, no research, just your own ideas on what a Jew is. What makes a Jew a Jew?

My thought is that what makes a Jew a Jew is that they practice Judaism. Aside from the particulars of their religion, they seem pretty much like anyone else. So if you feel that you have some unique problem with Jews, then it would (should) probably boil down to a problem with the tenets of Judaism.

That is a really really shallow definition. Based on it I'd say you know next to nothing or nothing at all of what Judaism is. Now the reason I asked the question of Mighty Iambiguous is because I know that he is just as ignorant as you are. In fact he has no concern at all nor on any level about the issue. The purpose of his *question* was only to establish a mire, a trap, in the hope that I would walk into it.

Fair enoough, there are practicing jews and non practicing. I assume even those who don't practice Judaism at least believe in the old testament in one way or another. Otherwise I wouldn't think calling them "Jews" would be accurate.

[Belinda]

My thought is that what makes a Jew a Jew is that they practice Judaism. Aside from the particulars of their religion, they seem pretty much like anyone else. So if you feel that you have some unique problem with Jews, then it would (should) probably boil down to a problem with the tenets of Judaism.

That is a really really shallow definition. Based on it I'd say you know next to nothing or nothing at all of what Judaism is. Now the reason I asked the question of Mighty Iambiguous is because I know that he is just as ignorant as you are. In fact he has no concern at all nor on any level about the issue. The purpose of his *question* was only to establish a mire, a trap, in the hope that I would walk into it.

Fair enoough, there are practicing jews and non practicing. I assume even those who don't practice Judaism at least believe in the old testament in one way or another. Otherwise I wouldn't think calling them "Jews" would be accurate.

A Humanist friend came from an extended family of observant Jews. He himself was educated to post graduate level and was politically left wing.He was slightly amused as his Jewish relations and their quaint customs. It would be really misleading to have called him a Jew.

[phyllo]

That is a really really shallow definition. Based on it I'd say you know next to nothing or nothing at all of what Judaism is. Now the reason I asked the question of Mighty Iambiguous is because I know that he is just as ignorant as you are. In fact he has no concern at all nor on any level about the issue. The purpose of his *question* was only to establish a mire, a trap, in the hope that I would walk into it.

Fair enoough, there are practicing jews and non practicing. I assume even those who don't practice Judaism at least believe in the old testament in one way or another. Otherwise I wouldn't think calling them "Jews" would be accurate.

A Humanist friend came from an extended family of observant Jews. He himself was educated to post graduate level and was politically left wing.He was slightly amused as his Jewish relations and their quaint customs. It would be really misleading to have called him a Jew.

You don't think he learned and retained anything from his extended Jewish family?

He has no Jewish culture, philosophy or attitude?

[Belinda]

Fair enoough, there are practicing jews and non practicing. I assume even those who don't practice Judaism at least believe in the old testament in one way or another. Otherwise I wouldn't think calling them "Jews" would be accurate.

A Humanist friend came from an extended family of observant Jews. He himself was educated to post graduate level and was politically left wing.He was slightly amused as his Jewish relations and their quaint customs. It would be really misleading to have called him a Jew.

You don't think he learned and retained anything from his extended Jewish family?

He has no Jewish culture, philosophy or attitude?

He did not seem any different from other friends and was interested in the same things as other Humanists. I also had school classmates who were Jewish refugees(I learned later) and they seemed no different from anyone else.