Christianity

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seeds
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Re: Christianity

Post by seeds »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:10 pm
seeds wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 5:38 am So then, my belief in the existence (and ultimate purpose) of the soul is a "...fairytale-like fantasy..." resulting from some kind of "...neurosis...," while, on the other hand, your belief in the existence of the soul...
That souls exist, that life continues — these issues do not enter into consideration when the issues are those I have been discussing.
Yes, I get that, and as I have already pointed out to you in an earlier post, the fact that you ignore those issues is the problem with your philosophy.
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 12:10 pm You seem to have a New Age Philosophy taken to extremes. Resulting in a “fairytale-like fantasy.”
First of all, do you even have the slightest clue as to what my “fairytale-like fantasy” actually entails?

And secondly, are you actually operating under the impression that your adoption of the ancient Hindu concept of a soul needing to keep reincarnating until it finally manages to "...work everything out..." so that it can then (as you flippantly suggested) spend the rest of eternity...

(trillions of years into the infinite)

...playing chess, or gardening, or crocheting, or doing NYT puzzles, is more logical than my “fairytale-like fantasy” of which you're going to prove to me that you fully understand?

Good grief, man, if you're going to profess a preference for the Eastern concept of the afterlife, then at least keep in mind that it suggests that once the soul "...works everything out..." it will achieve "moksha"...

...and thus be released from the karmic bonds of "samsara" (reincarnation) and therefore no longer be a part of this temporary illusion consisting of material bodies that low conscious (sleepwalking) humans subdivide and discriminate against based on a body's "color," of all things.

(Continued in next post)
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seeds
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Re: Christianity

Post by seeds »

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Continued from prior post)
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:26 pm Strangely, but yet it makes sense, it is next-to-impossible to dialogue with men like Seeds and Iambiguous. The first thing you run into is the 'Construct' of their own selves. It could be a small, tight edifice or a somewhat more towering one, but it is one nonetheless and it is often established through impenetrability. No discussion about it and no discussion critical of its tenets is even possible...
Please stop lumping me in with iambiguous, for he and I are polar opposites of each other.

And furthermore, except for this one particular inquiry,...
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 8:01 pm It would be helpful if you'd elucidate, in prose, what your diagram means. It is not strikingly obvious to me.
...I have no recollection of you showing the slightest interest in discussing my so-called "impenetrable Construct" (which I assume you mean my core interpretation of reality).

However, seeing how I did my best to explain the meaning of the diagram you were referring to, I therefore have no idea why you would suggest that I'm opposed to any sort of critical analysis of any of my ideas.

Indeed, quite the opposite is true, for I welcome it.
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:26 pm It is this impenetrability' that in my view needs to be questioned and examined.
Here's the main problem with your complaint:

It seems that the only way that any of us would be worthy of dialogue with you is if we first agree to familiarize ourselves with all of the books, and essays, and lectures of all of the people who helped you to build your own "impenetrable Construct."

However, if you were half as intelligent as you think you are, then you would realize that we've all arrived here on this forum after undergoing a similar process of accruing years and years of information and personal experiences that have shaped each of us into our present state of mind.

And my point is that as much as you wish that the rest of us could crawl into your self-created philosophical bubble (again, your "Construct") in order to see and understand reality from your point of view,...

...you nevertheless don't impress me as being someone who'd be willing to do the same for us and familiarize yourself with all of the books, and essays, and lectures of all of the people that we've encountered in order to see reality from our point of view.

Not only is it unreasonable to expect that of each other, but it would be pretty much impossible.

The bottom line is, don't try to pretend that you aren't just as biased and protective of your views as we are of ours.

In the end, the truth is that we are all just sailing across the waters of this earthly life on rickety "rafts" created from our own personal and speculative beliefs; rafts that will each be abandoned once we reach the shore of death.
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Lacewing
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Re: Christianity

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:46 am...
Are you laughing at something I said? I could have been clearer... I think I was tired. But I won't bother unless you ask for it. 8)
tillingborn
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Re: Christianity

Post by tillingborn »

Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:58 pmAn "Evolutionist" is not every denier of Creation, it's an indoctrinated adherent of the Darwinian narrative.
What is your story? Specifically:
1 What is "the Darwinian narrative"?
2 Who is indoctrinating "Evolutionists"?
3 What do the indoctrinators gain?
seeds
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Re: Christianity

Post by seeds »

Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:12 am
seeds wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:46 am...
Are you laughing at something I said? I could have been clearer... I think I was tired. But I won't bother unless you ask for it. 8)
Nah, I just throw in those old-time comedic gifs to help lighten the mood and to fill-in that crappy last space at the end of a page. :D

And even though our takes on reality may sometimes differ, I always enjoy and appreciate the things you write.
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Lacewing
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Re: Christianity

Post by Lacewing »

seeds wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:25 am
Lacewing wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:12 am
seeds wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:46 am...
Are you laughing at something I said? I could have been clearer... I think I was tired. But I won't bother unless you ask for it. 8)
Nah, I just throw in those old-time comedic gifs to help lighten the mood and to fill-in that crappy last space at the end of a page. :D

And even though our takes on reality may sometimes differ, I always enjoy and appreciate the things you write.
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Aw, thanks Seeds. I like that image. :-)
Gary Childress
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gary Childress »

tillingborn wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 8:23 am
Immanuel Can wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 2:58 pmAn "Evolutionist" is not every denier of Creation, it's an indoctrinated adherent of the Darwinian narrative.
What is your story? Specifically:
1 What is "the Darwinian narrative"?
2 Who is indoctrinating "Evolutionists"?
3 What do the indoctrinators gain?
1. I assume the "Darwinian narrative" is the notion that the world and all that is in it formed by accident and continues by accident. Perhaps IC can correct me if I am wrong.
2. I assume teaching it in public schools is considered by IC and others to be "indoctrination."
3. As far as what educators gain, that I couldn't say. Again assuming, I imagine they gain nothing from it--in the sense of wealth or power, at least.

As far as religion is concerned, the gain from teaching religion is order and stability. Because everyone sees their place in the world as divinely ordained or sanctioned. I think atheism produces a tendency toward anarchism because it becomes a free-for-all where everyone is competing with everyone else on equal moral footing and there is little to no reason for an individual to believe that their lot in life is any more deserving or undeserving than that of a king and the lot of a king no more deserving or undeserving than that of a peasant.

Again, I would be interested in hearing IC's take on the above.
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Harbal
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Re: Christianity

Post by Harbal »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:18 am 2. I assume teaching it in public schools is considered by IC and others to be "indoctrination."
He may have a point. At school they taught me about how plants are able to convert light into chemical energy. I never questioned it, and have spent my entire life as a Photosynthesist. :|
Gary Childress
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gary Childress »

Harbal wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:45 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:18 am 2. I assume teaching it in public schools is considered by IC and others to be "indoctrination."
He may have a point. At school they taught me about how plants are able to convert light into chemical energy. I never questioned it, and have spent my entire life as a Photosynthesist. :|
That's terrible, Harbal! You've been brainwashed with the scientific method! Not sure what to tell you at this point. Perhaps feigning ignorance will help? However, once you eat that apple of knowledge, what is done is done. Knowledge is apparently a terrible thing.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

iambiguous wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:12 pm Just as with race, what I would like is for you to discuss your thoughts and feelings about Jews theoretically, academically, analytically etc., and then take those conclusions out into the world that we live in today.
What I would like (I too have likes) would be for you, without searching on the topic, to write out what a Jew is. Again, no research, just your own ideas on what a Jew is. What makes a Jew a Jew?
Gary Childress
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Re: Christianity

Post by Gary Childress »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:08 pm
iambiguous wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:12 pm Just as with race, what I would like is for you to discuss your thoughts and feelings about Jews theoretically, academically, analytically etc., and then take those conclusions out into the world that we live in today.
What I would like (I too have likes) would be for you, without searching on the topic, to write out what a Jew is. Again, no research, just your own ideas on what a Jew is. What makes a Jew a Jew?
My thought is that what makes a Jew a Jew is that they practice Judaism. Aside from the particulars of their religion, they seem pretty much like anyone else. So if you feel that you have some unique problem with Jews, then it would (should) probably boil down to a problem with the tenets of Judaism.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

seeds wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:48 am ...
With respect I don't have any interest in all that seems to interest you in respect to where souls wind up after millions, billions or trillions of years. I have my own ideas or intuitions about This World but I can see no way that other people in this world do have, or could have, ideas similar to mine. You are entirely free to zoom off into any level of (New Age-esque) speculations about this reality or humankind if that levitates your spacecraft. But in my own case what interests me, what gets my attention, is the here-and-now and how people are now dealing with immediate cultural and social issues and questions. For this reason I brought out a specific example: Renaud Camus and his ideas on remplacement. But engaging you you on the level of your fantasy-world will only divert me into what I have defined (within quotes) as your *neurosis*.
The word neurosis has been used since the 1700s, when it referred broadly to a "nervous disease." With the advent of Freud's theory of psychoanalysis in the late 1800s, neurosis evolved to refer to mental disorders resulting from internal psychological conflicts rather than from neurological diseases or conditions. Today, the words neurosis and neurotic are no longer used in formal psychiatric diagnosis. The conditions formerly referred to as neurotic are now described with many other terms, such as anxiety disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder. Neurosis and neurotic are still frequently used in informal conversation and writing to denote recurrent worry and anxiety.
I regret using a word that has a pathological tinge to it but you must understand, if you are to understand what I write and why I write it, that I operate from the position that we exist in pathological times. I do not expect you to have read or even to read now what I write and I don't care much if you do or don't (I am here strictly for my own purposes) but the notion of 'pathology' is core to many of my positions. And I hope that you will excuse me if I tell you honestly what I think about the content of your writing.

The basic premise I work from when thinking about indoctrination and PR and social engineering is that we have all been subject to it in extreme forms. I submited some quotes by Tomislav Sunic on the topic of Homo americanus to give an idea of ideas that I entertain. So let me make a statement and you can then decide where you will stand in respect to it: I regard the ideas of Renaud Camus as being sane, as containing sane view and sane propositions. I regard his stance as 'needed' and also 'necessary' in order to counteract the objectives of Progressive Egalitarianism motivated essentially by Marxian praxis. There you have it. The pathology is Progressive Egalitarianism motivated essentially by Marxian praxis. And the object (my object if you will) is to examine what is the necessary antidote or reversal that is needed.

I don't give a flying fuck about your interesting, but bizarre, ideas of the sameness of all souls, and though I found your diagrams creative, and I would not object to some of the assertions that they express (a religious idealism unless I am completely off the mark), I do not find your area of concern to have much relationship at all to those things I see going on in the world right now. So I cannot engage with you at your level.

I am fundamentally interested in 'counter-currents'. I believe that I can see and understand 'the current' as it is flowing in our present time. It is pictured as 'good, necessary, progressive, positive, tending toward good ends' etc. but within my personal project I introduce the possibility that this is not so. I resort to another descriptive-assertion that has to do with degeneration, break-down, headlong dives into 'ignorant modes', and much else. I am therefore forced (in the sense of in order to pursue my core interests) to read, examine and think about the thought and conclusions of all those philosophers (to use the broad term as thinkers, opinionators) who took positions against 'the current'. Note that these men have been pushed utterly out of the picture into the realm of 'unthinkable thought'. I have an example. I have read the writing of Martin Luther King a man presented to us as a model and a hero and one whom society will commend you for reading and emulating. Who might we propose stands opposite him on the America cultural field? There are a few I'm sure but let me present David Duke as a good example.

Surely you have read something of MLK, right? But have you ever read, say, David Duke's autobiography? Could you read it? I do not think so. You and tens of thousands -- millions -- could not even conceive of getting the book and reading it. It is 'not allowed' and he surely must deal in 'illegal thoughts', mustn't he?

(I assume you are waiting for me to make some statement about Duke's biography and where I place him on the human moral scale. Interesting, isn't it, how our thinking always follows predictable lines.)

The point I am trying to make (which will be twisted by those who are deeply involved in twisting as a central part of their praxis) is that we live in a culture where we have been subject to extremely intense social engineering through a wide range of media. Without going into what that is, how it came about, etc., I wish only to start with the assertion: you and people like you, you and me and people like us, live within intellectual worlds that are highly constrained and even controlled. What are those mechanisms? This involves a rather demanding analytical project. And it demands one where we ourselves become the subject of our analysis and inquiry. That is why I refer to ideas that we have become 'wedded to'. That we have incorporated into our personalities. That have become 'part of who we are'. So that if a countering idea is presented it appear to the self as an 'assault' which must be defended agains with one's full force.

What am I referring to? What are the limits and boundaries of what I am referring to? Surely you want me to be specific, right? I can well understand that. When a person feels attacked they tend to respond through reactive modes.

Iambiguous, this amazing hot-head! is similar to you insofar as he clearly operates within an entire set of assertions and assumptions -- indeed these are conclusions -- about what is right & good. He notices that I do not seem to toe the same line as he feels is right & proper and then, in typical Left/Progressive fashion, sets up traps that have been designed to be stepped into. Once you step into them you find yourself in a pre-configured mire. But that was how it was all set up at the start, right?

These are games of course. These are the games common to the discourse [sic] going on in our present.

I can't be sure if I've made myself clear but in order to engage with me you will have to deconstruct a great deal of your own shtick and engage in ways that you do not seem inclined to.
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Alexis Jacobi
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Re: Christianity

Post by Alexis Jacobi »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:21 pm
Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:08 pm
iambiguous wrote: Sun Jan 15, 2023 8:12 pm Just as with race, what I would like is for you to discuss your thoughts and feelings about Jews theoretically, academically, analytically etc., and then take those conclusions out into the world that we live in today.
What I would like (I too have likes) would be for you, without searching on the topic, to write out what a Jew is. Again, no research, just your own ideas on what a Jew is. What makes a Jew a Jew?
My thought is that what makes a Jew a Jew is that they practice Judaism. Aside from the particulars of their religion, they seem pretty much like anyone else. So if you feel that you have some unique problem with Jews, then it would (should) probably boil down to a problem with the tenets of Judaism.
That is a really really shallow definition. Based on it I'd say you know next to nothing or nothing at all of what Judaism is. Now the reason I asked the question of Mighty Iambiguous is because I know that he is just as ignorant as you are. In fact he has no concern at all nor on any level about the issue. The purpose of his *question* was only to establish a mire, a trap, in the hope that I would walk into it.
what makes a Jew a Jew is that they practice Judaism
Except that many Jews do not practice Judaism in any form at all. Are they still Jews according to your view?
So if you feel that you have some unique problem with Jews, then it would (should) probably boil down to a problem with the tenets of Judaism.
First I have not indicated that I have 'a problem with Jews'. That is Iambiguous's assertion.

But the question must be brought out into the open: Who has a problem with Jews? Is there a problem with Jews? Who has that problem, why, and what do they say?

I assume that all those concerned about Jews, about Judaism, about contemporary culture, would be well-informed on these topics. Yet I get the sense that you, Gary, have no formation of any sort. Am I right or wrong?

So I hoped to also get a sense where Iambiguous -- a stunning and powerful intellect I must add -- stands in relation to these questions. You have to know these things before starting a 'valid conversation'.

[And dammit man there are so many 'valid conversions' going on on this amazing forum that I can hardly keep up with them! 👍🏻]
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FlashDangerpants
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Re: Christianity

Post by FlashDangerpants »

The Banality of Evil has nothing on the Pretentiousness of Alexis Jacobi when he's trying to Nazi without saying any Nazi stuff.
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Re: Christianity

Post by attofishpi »

Alexis Jacobi wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 1:16 pm Most of them don't believe Jesus did as the Messiah was supposed to do (and was not in fact their Messiah from...dunno what? the Torah?) - Obviously overlooking the fact that their land of Israel was provided by the lovely Christian nation (that Jesus obviously set up as part of the master promise) - England - and is still protected by many predomonminatly Christian nations - ergo the Messiah did as promised.
By the way Alexis, I came up with the above all on my own noggins. What do you think? Have you ever heard this type of statement before? (I have posted it in this thread a long time ago)
Last edited by attofishpi on Mon Jan 16, 2023 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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