Reincarnation

[Iwannaplato]

Why would he be [would you be] [would anyone be] upset about the inevitable part of being alive?

I've already answered this question.

Not in relation to yourself. There's Christ on the cross suffering crucifixion and he feels forsaken by God and says it. Your response to this is to ask why is he upset about something inevitable. You wrote a post about all the suffering you go through in life and so I asked you about you. Why are you upset about inevitable things?

Personally, I think that's an odd question. But it can't be an odd question for you, since you asked it regarding someone else. So, I asked it of you. Perhaps you will see the oddness of it. Or perhaps something else will happen.

[Dontaskme]

Why would he be [would you be] [would anyone be] upset about the inevitable part of being alive?

I've already answered this question.

Not in relation to yourself. There's Christ on the cross suffering crucifixion and he feels forsaken by God and says it. Your response to this is to ask why is he upset about something inevitable. You wrote a post about all the suffering you go through in life and so I asked you about you. Why are you upset about inevitable things?

Personally, I think that's an odd question. But it can't be an odd question for you, since you asked it regarding someone else. So, I asked it of you. Perhaps you will see the oddness of it. Or perhaps something else will happen.

To be perfectly honest now, I have lost all sense of what is supposed to be the issue here.

All I said is why would he be upset at the inevitability of what it means to be alive, why make the apparent appeal to his Father/God about the inevitable consequences of being alive. To be alive is to know suffering and pain and death...there's no point in calling out to some made up fantasized entity called God in despair of being abandoned in ones agony. What's that appeal going to change or help his circumstances?

My point all along has been to just deal with it, it's upsetting yeah, of course it's upsetting to know you are going to die, your life is in all certainty just a very long winded death sentence, maybe short for the luckier ones....but what can anyone do about their lot in life, they just have to accept unconditionally the inevitability of their death sentence.

Personally, as upsetting as it is, the best way to deal with the situation, would be to accept it and surrender without any resistance. There's nothing that is going to save any of us from our eventual death sentences is there? That's all I'm trying to say to you.

I get upset when I'm in pain, of course I do, but at the same time I accept it and know there's nothing that can be done about it, but just to ride it out until it passes.

So I'm not really sure what it is exactly that you are trying to push out further with this issue, or why Iwannaplato, I'm really not.


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[Lacewing]

It has been my own experience that thrashing back and forth between hate and love is the same one energy. That's my theory anyway, I'm not asking anyone to agree with that.

I imagined you were going to say that... and I agree in part. Everything is made up of the same energy. At the same time, that energy can manifest in so many ways. I guess, being human, enables us to experience the same as different.

By the way, I really enjoyed your clear and easy-to-follow response. At this moment it feels like you and I could be sitting under a tree somewhere, having a cosmic conversation.

For me personally, there is no other game to play. I didn't make myself alive, so I have no other option than to play the game of being alive.

So, you're saying that, for you, there's no other game to play associated with being alive, right?

That sounds like (if I may suggest) that's because that's the game you are committed to.

I can hate the experience with just as much passion as I can love the experience.

I get that. I can see and experience that, myself. Isn't that the amazing thing about being alive? From all the sameness, we can create and experience so much difference? It's all like 'colorful paint' that we can create with. It's all like single cells that can turn into so many different things. It's all atoms... all the same... with the capability for vast manifestations. Magnificent! And yes, within the confines of being human, it can feel terribly restricted. But this is how we experience all the sensory stuff humans are capable of, yes?

Flesh and blood... capable of feeling euphoria and capable of being hacked up. The glory of life may be to experience it passionately while we can. For reasons I don't know, my awareness is here in this human body. I've experienced everything from absolute bliss to complete and utter despair. Is it possible to see the beauty in all of it? Personally, I think so. An incredible experience playing out across a blank screen of so much possibility.

There is so much that I (this awareness) can inject into it! There have been many chapters. I practice my craft of creating. Like playing a game over and over, hoping for better odds while using my improved capabilities. Remember how I've previously spoken about living on a beautiful woodland property that I developed? Well, I recently moved! I let it go. Such a wonderfully magical place! Yet, maintaining it (my creation) was becoming a burden. So, I sold it to some ecstatic people (they get to create with it now), and I'm exploring new territory... on lots of levels. It appears that I use the 'sameness', the 'one energy', to continually create with through this human form. What will I create 'here' and 'now'? It's all unknown, but I'm excited to see. I don't imagine there are any limits to it.

I suppose I've explored everything to be honest.

Perhaps 'everything' you've considered so far? Might there always be more -- even from/within the human experience -- in an expanding Universe of so many levels and possibilities? Hey, I ask myself these questions too! And there are times I cannot see beyond a particular experience/perspective. It's all temporary and it's always shifting. I think we can ride the flow rather than standing in place and feeling jarred by all of the natural movement going on.

I've particularly enjoyed exploring living as a recluse, in solitude, alone, which does apparently seem to suit my character very much.

I have enjoyed that a lot in my life too. It's not part of my life now, though, as I've embarked on a partnership adventure.

Falling in love with the opposite sex because I am not gay, is another capability I have explored which is a very blissful experience for me especially when my love for the man is requited back to me with mutual passion and commitment. The love experience is probably one of the most pleasurable experiences I have explored while being alive, but then it can also be one of the most painful experiences when the love is unrequited.

That's my experience too. It's different now, though, than I've experienced before. The relationship I'm in is more about creating a kind partnership that serves us both, hopefully for the remainder of our lives. We both left our previous lives behind to explore new territory together. It was terribly brave... and utterly overwhelming at times... but the rewards have been beyond imagination. We are really good to each other (most of the time ). I've never had a kinder and more supportive partner. He shows that he adores me every day. This is who he has become despite struggling with alcoholism many years ago... and he is open to exploring the potential of the Universe with me as it manifests in the life we are creating together now. I treasure him, and I'm continually exploring 'more' that I can become individually too.

There just seems to continually be ways for this 'sameness' to keep manifesting, ya know? Even when I think I've experienced the pinnacle, there's more! I am SO GRATEFUL... and I think that has been an important key for me! I've heard it said: if we don't have gratitude for what we have, we don't get more.

It's probably easier for people to imagine/believe how much worse things can get... and then they see that is so. But why not practice the opposite, equally true potential? How much better/greater things can get... and see that is so! Imagine that the most blissful way you've ever felt can be magnified and experienced even greater. Why not?

It's a bumpy rollercoaster ride to nowhere, and the thrill is thinking and believing it is leading somehwere other than a dead end.

I think it helps to let go of any specific ideas about where it leads or what it's limited to. Be in the moment with gratitude and allow the potential for more gratitude to manifest.

[Walker]

All I said is why would he be upset at the inevitability of what it means to be alive, why make the apparent appeal to his Father/God about the inevitable consequences of being alive. To be alive is to know suffering and pain and death...

Every human has a breaking point. Slow physical and mental torture until the body dies is going to find that breaking point for any human. It doesn't matter what concepts are floating around in the noggin about who is and who ain't. There are no atheists in foxholes.

[Dontaskme]

(Hope you're feeling better.)

Why though?

Are we not meant to feel unwell?

[Walker]

The natural state is peace of mind independent of external circumstances, although some situations are more challenging than others, until they become effortless, and to be effortless is relaxed. Although the world and sensation may be spinning around you like a top, if you're the still axis then you're at peace, no matter the rotation.

However, the question still remains.

What is most important to a person?

[Dontaskme]

Every human has a breaking point. Slow physical and mental torture until the body dies is going to find that breaking point for any human. It doesn't matter what concepts are floating around in the noggin about who is and who ain't. There are no atheists in foxholes.

Look, there is no God who is going to save your arse. That which is born will die, there is no way to avoid this. Life either has to extinct itself completely or continue to suffer it's desire to be.

Just deal with that.

Quite frankly any so called divine supreme universal intelligence that chooses to create an organism capable of feeling the sensation of Slow physical and mental torture until the body dies.....I would consider to be so psychologically and pathologically abnormal in a very unhealthy way, that it's hardly any wonder why we go on choosing to impose it on ourselves the way we do. When it's obviously nothing more than a complusively insane idea to do so.


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[Dontaskme]

The natural state is peace of mind independent of external circumstances, although some situations are more challenging than others, until they become effortless, and to be effortless is relaxed. Although the world and sensation may be spinning around you like a top, if you're the still axis then you're at peace, no matter the rotation.

In my opinion: The natural state of mind is during dreamless sleep or death. Real peace of mind is a dead mind. There is absolutely no peace in a consciously aware living sentient feeling organism.

However, the question still remains.

What is most important to a person?

I don't understand the question.

[Walker]

I don't understand the question.

I'm easy, so I'll respond to the principle of deficient understanding.

Since your interest turns to confessing ignorance of the question, this is the new topic. Regarding that: if you tried to answer the question without a basis of either experience or reasoning, then your answer would be incomprehensible, and then Iwannaplato would advise you of the same, at which point the fur would fly. All these external forces moving emotions hither and yon, from peace to rampage in an instant. What's to be made of it?

[Dontaskme]

Falling in love with the opposite sex because I am not gay, is another capability I have explored which is a very blissful experience for me especially when my love for the man is requited back to me with mutual passion and commitment. The love experience is probably one of the most pleasurable experiences I have explored while being alive, but then it can also be one of the most painful experiences when the love is unrequited.

That's my experience too. It's different now, though, than I've experienced before. The relationship I'm in is more about creating a kind partnership that serves us both, hopefully for the remainder of our lives. We both left our previous lives behind to explore new territory together. It was terribly brave... and utterly overwhelming at times... but the rewards have been beyond imagination. We are really good to each other (most of the time ). I've never had a kinder and more supportive partner. He shows that he adores me every day. This is who he has become despite struggling with alcoholism many years ago... and he is open to exploring the potential of the Universe with me as it manifests in the life we are creating together now. I treasure him, and I'm continually exploring 'more' that I can become individually too.

There just seems to continually be ways for this 'sameness' to keep manifesting, ya know? Even when I think I've experienced the pinnacle, there's more! I am SO GRATEFUL... and I think that has been an important key for me! I've heard it said: if we don't have gratitude for what we have, we don't get more.

Lacewing, it's lovely to hear about your life as it is happening right now. I'm very happy for you and your partner. How wonderful for you both to be involved in the love experience together, hopefully forever sharing everything that life has to offer you. May you always be in bliss and gratitude for what you both are giving and receiving in your relationship, may it contiune to flourish and blossom and nourish you.

It's probably easier for people to imagine/believe how much worse things can get... and then they see that is so. But why not practice the opposite, equally true potential? How much better/greater things can get... and see that is so! Imagine that the most blissful way you've ever felt can be magnified and experienced even greater. Why not?

I totally get where you are coming from Lace...however, for me personally, I am at present of the mentality that sometimes it's just easier to disembark the dizzy merry-go-round of life's rollercoaster ride. And to say, I'm done, I've had enough now, it was amazing, it was fun, but I'm all blissed out of bliss now, and there's just this longing to belong to the eternal rest that is the grave. Until I rise again. Be reincarnated to see yet another sunrise and a new dawn, and when I get to say, oh no, here we go again!

[Dontaskme]

I don't understand the question.

I'm easy, so I'll respond to the principle of deficient understanding.

Since your interest turns to confessing ignorance of the question, this is the new topic. Regarding that: if you tried to answer the question without a basis of either experience or reasoning, then your answer would be incomprehensible, and then Iwannaplato would advise you of the same, at which point the fur would fly. All these external forces moving emotions hither and yon, from peace to rampage in an instant. What's to be made of it?

I'll tell you what's to be made of it...you are being an arsehole as usual, that's what's to be made of it.

[Dontaskme]

It has been my own experience that thrashing back and forth between hate and love is the same one energy. That's my theory anyway, I'm not asking anyone to agree with that.

I imagined you were going to say that... and I agree in part. Everything is made up of the same energy. At the same time, that energy can manifest in so many ways. I guess, being human, enables us to experience the same as different.

By the way, I really enjoyed your clear and easy-to-follow response. At this moment it feels like you and I could be sitting under a tree somewhere, having a cosmic conversation.

For me personally, there is no other game to play. I didn't make myself alive, so I have no other option than to play the game of being alive.

So, you're saying that, for you, there's no other game to play associated with being alive, right?

That sounds like (if I may suggest) that's because that's the game you are committed to.

I can hate the experience with just as much passion as I can love the experience.

I get that. I can see and experience that, myself. Isn't that the amazing thing about being alive? From all the sameness, we can create and experience so much difference? It's all like 'colorful paint' that we can create with. It's all like single cells that can turn into so many different things. It's all atoms... all the same... with the capability for vast manifestations. Magnificent! And yes, within the confines of being human, it can feel terribly restricted. But this is how we experience all the sensory stuff humans are capable of, yes?

Flesh and blood... capable of feeling euphoria and capable of being hacked up. The glory of life may be to experience it passionately while we can. For reasons I don't know, my awareness is here in this human body. I've experienced everything from absolute bliss to complete and utter despair. Is it possible to see the beauty in all of it? Personally, I think so. An incredible experience playing out across a blank screen of so much possibility.

There is so much that I (this awareness) can inject into it! There have been many chapters. I practice my craft of creating. Like playing a game over and over, hoping for better odds while using my improved capabilities. Remember how I've previously spoken about living on a beautiful woodland property that I developed? Well, I recently moved! I let it go. Such a wonderfully magical place! Yet, maintaining it (my creation) was becoming a burden. So, I sold it to some ecstatic people (they get to create with it now), and I'm exploring new territory... on lots of levels. It appears that I use the 'sameness', the 'one energy', to continually create with through this human form. What will I create 'here' and 'now'? It's all unknown, but I'm excited to see. I don't imagine there are any limits to it.

Perhaps 'everything' you've considered so far? Might there always be more -- even from/within the human experience -- in an expanding Universe of so many levels and possibilities? Hey, I ask myself these questions too! And there are times I cannot see beyond a particular experience/perspective. It's all temporary and it's always shifting. I think we can ride the flow rather than standing in place and feeling jarred by all of the natural movement going on.

I enjoy reading your positivity and enthusiasm for life Lacewing, thanks for expressing it, sincerely.

For me right now, I'm all burnt out. I'm observing without participating. Just allowing myself to be swept along the universal ocean of being and have no particular preferences as to where the waves want to take me. I'm without any resistance and there is no more effort involved on my part in this life. I'm done trying to control it as I would like it to be, instead I just allow the universe to decide what's best for me, and to accept what will be will be, and what won't be, will not be, and if and when what is meant to be happens or not is not up to me, I just silently wait and see, and then go along with it happily.

Geeeze, I'm turning into a right poetic nerd lately.


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[Lacewing]

Lacewing, it's lovely to hear about your life as it happening right now. I'm very happy for you and your partner. How wonderful for you both to be involved in the love experience together, hopefully forever sharing everything that life has to offer you. May you always be in bliss and gratitude for what you both are giving and receiving in your relationship, may it contiune to flourish and blossom and nourish you.

Thank you. It is definitely A RIDE! We are very different... we're just focused on what works really well for us. It all came together so surprisingly and perfectly (even though very challenging for each of us in some ways), that we both feel there's something 'greater than we can see' behind it. We will allow it to unfold/expand however long, and in whatever way, is best.

I totally get where you are coming from Lace...however, for me personally, I am at present of the mentality that sometimes it's just easier to disembark the dizzy merry-go-round of life's rollercoaster ride. And to say, I'm done, I've had enough now, it was amazing, it was fun, but I'm all blissed out of bliss now, and there's just this longing to belong to the eternal rest that is the grave. Until I rise again. Be reincarnated to see yet another sunrise and a new dawn, and when I get to say, oh no, here we go again!

Wishing you safe and fulfilling travels in whatever way you see fit.

[Iwannaplato]

I get upset when I'm in pain, of course I do

You asked why he was upset. As you say here, you get upset when you are in pain. He was being crucified. That's painful. There's the answer to your original question. Yes, you also asked about God. But here I was pointing out that it would seem like you understand why he might have been upset.

But I brought up the scenario of the crucifixion because earlier you made it sound like in Christianity you could not doubt, should not doubt. But here we have Jesus, in the central part of Christianity, as the central figure, calling out in doubt and despair. To me that says there is room for doubt in Christianity. And I know this from feet on the ground from interactions with Christians.

If you can't understand what I'm getting at, that's ok. I tried a few times in different phrasings and emphases. I also noticed the post where you seem to hate life and the suffering in it. That, I thought, might help you understand why he was upset. It seems, so far, you can't connect your upsetness with life to his. But, it's ok. I'll move on.

[Age]

The 'you' is a mystery even to itself because there is no way for 'you' to be present at your own conception or your own death. So that which is a mystery cannot not be a mystery as the concept is known. A 'known'' can never be made unknown, that simply wouldn't make any sense either.

Although 'you' are absolutely FREE to say and do absolutely ANY thing, I suggest 'you' telling "others" what they can or can not know and do is NOT going to help 'you', AT ALL.

Seriously Age, I'm not seeking or in need of any help here as you suggest.

And I am NOT saying NOR suggesting 'you' are in need of any help "dontaskme", in the way that 'you' are perceiving here. Once again, I suggest 'you' gain CLARITY before 'you' start making ASSUMPTIONS.

Seriously, WHEN will 'you', adult human beings, STOP making ASSUMPTIONS, and just seek out CLARIFICATIONS, FIRST?

'you' have ONCE AGAIN completely and utterly MISCONSTRUED what I just said and wrote here.

Look, writing on a public forum MEANS that you want to be heard, and listened to. That is; you want to express your views and beliefs here, and have them SEEN and HEARD. HOWEVER, I am just POINTING OUT that 'you' TELLING "others" what they can or can not do is NOT going to 'help' 'you', in having your views and beliefs heard and listened to. Especially when your views or beliefs are so obviously Wrong and Incorrect.

Why you even have to drag the idea of 'help' into this discussion is pointless.

But it was NOT pointless AT ALL. As I just EXPRESSED and SHOWED.

'you' NOT listening and ignoring 'things' may well make my points 'pointless' to 'you' ALONE. But 'me' making my points CLEAR is NOT 'pointless' AT ALL.

And the point I wanted to make CLEAR here is that 'you', posters, back in the days when this was being written, would continuously JUMP to CONCLUSIONS, which inevitably turn out to be Wrong and Incorrect, because base those CONCLUSIONS solely on your own Wrong ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS, ALONE.

SEE, IF 'you' had made an attempt to CLARIFY, FIRST, then what would have become absolutely CLEAR, to 'you', was that I was NOT meaning 'help' in the WAY that 'you' were ASSUMING and/or BELIEVING I was.

I'm only presenting my own unique philosophy as I personally know and see it, I call it my philosophy now, and it can be read on the PN forum by anyone who is interested to read it.

And I NEVER said ANY thing otherwise.

As I continually STATE, 'you' are absolutely FREE to express, write, and say absolutely ANY thing 'you' like. BUT, when 'you' write and say 'things' about what "others" can or can NOT do, then do NOT be too 'shocked' when 'you' are SHOWN to be Wrong or Incorrect, which is EXACTLY how 'you' are here.

LOOK, the 'you', the 'i', and the 'I' are NOT a 'mystery' AT ALL. Well at least NOT to some of 'us'. AND, EVERY time 'you' say and state otherwise, and I want to, 'I' will pick 'you' up for being Wrong AND Incorrect. Understood?

Many will, many won't read, but it makes no difference who reads my philosophy, or what they think about it, as it will never change in it's presentation or delivery, it's just the way I personally see the nature of reality, that's all.

And, either 'you' will REMAIN STUCK in and with this BELIEF of 'yours', which is OBVIOUSLY TOTALLY Wrong AND Incorrect, or 'you' will CHANGE and state and express DIFFERENT views and beliefs.

OBVIOUSLY what 'you' say and express here, now IS VERY DIFFERENT from what 'you' would have said and expressed previously. And, as long as 'you' are OPEN, then what 'you' say and express here, in this forum, in the future will be DIFFERENT, ALSO.

But, if 'you' BELIEVE that what 'you' say, express, present, and deliver here, that is; your views or beliefs, will NEVER CHANGE, in the future, then 'you' are providing 'me' with MORE PROOF, of what I want to SHOW and REVEAL here.

I am in no way ''TELLING'' people they must believe what I am saying is irrefutable, or that it is absolutely incapable of being proved wrong.

And, I am just TELLING 'you' that what 'you' are saying and presenting here is just Wrong. As it has ALREADY been PROVED Wrong.

I do not give a shiny shilling whether it's right or wrong for I know nothing.

GREAT. But WHY 'you' do 'you' appear to become so 'upset' or 'uneasy' when I just TELL 'you' that 'you' are Wrong here?

All I know is that I know nothing, except in this conception, what I imagine reality to be.

And, I am just SHOWING where and when, what 'you' IMAGINE to be 'reality', is actually False, Wrong, and/or Incorrect.

WHY does this appear to be a 'drama' for 'you'?

I do not know how many more times I have to remind you about that.

'you' have NEVER had to 'remind' 'me' about that.

The first time 'you' expressed that 'you' are just expressing your OWN views and BELIEFS here, was sufficient.

I will just remind 'you' that when 'you' present and express your views or beliefs, and they are Wrong or Incorrect, and I feel like it, then I WILL Correct 'you'. Okay?

Now, I suggest that if you do NOT like to be Corrected, then just do NOT say ANY thing that is so OBVIOUSLY False, Wrong, nor Incorrect. It properly does NOT get much more SIMPLER and EASIER than this, correct.