Christianity

[Immanuel Can]

I don't want to be around Yahweh.

There it is, again.

The fervent wish for Hell. You wouldn't think anybody could have it; but apparently, they can.

[Gary Childress]

I guess you didn't read this part of one of my posts. No worry. It's not your fault. You're only human like the rest of us.

Hopefully, my fate will be oblivion.

Two problems: firstly, "hope" is not a word that fits with "oblivion." Secondly, there isn't actually any hope of that.

Why? And why not? I'm very interested in learning from experts on the unknown so please proceed!

[Walker]

burn in Hell for eternity

That does appear to be a stumbling block of comprehension for atheists. That, and Gary's notion that God is a big meanie.

However, burning in hell in eternity does make perfectly logical, rational, secular sense, when one doesn't interject their fears and beliefs into the understanding, or worry so much about what other folks think.

Hell only exists in the present. Causation puts you in hell. As a human you have the capacity to know, and the means of knowing, the causation that will put you in hell right now. The way out of hell is also caused, right now. Some causes created by your actions will land you in hell now and all the nows you can ever know. Other causes by your actions will not spare you. Still other causes by your actions will remove you from hell you are in now, while you’re still able to act. Christianity explains the causes and the effects.

The reason Christianity has persisted is because people have lived the causes and effects. It's tried and thus true.

There is no faith in this. It’s the natural way of things.

[Immanuel Can]

But Jesus told us to expect both. So I do.

Actually, a priest-class, those who proceeded from the Hebrew priest-class (against which the figure of Jesus was said to have taken a radical stand), organized the Gospel story. It must be viewed as a sort of religious novel and to have been both written and rewritten.

Apparently, you don't know anything about manuscripts. That's okay...lots of people don't. But common sense should tell you that written words don't just jump around and change...so when something relies on written evidence, you can be sure it stayed stable at least from the day it was written down, assuming you have multiple manuscripts to check.

Which, in the case of the Bible, we do.

So the fact is that *we* do not really have any verifiable evidence of what Jesus of Nazareth said or is said to have said.

That also shows you don't know what historical evidence is. We have plenty of what historians ordinarily use to verify historical events.

As most know there are a number of apocryphal Gospels that offer different pictures,

And we have very good reasons for rejecting all of them. I have some of them here on my shelves, actually. Some most were written much later, were never accepted by the apostles or their contemporaries, are thoroughly Gnostic and contradictory -- both to themselves and to the Biblical text, and so on. If you'd read any, you'd know that for sure.

Your understanding of biblical historiography doesn't quite rise to the level of a Tom & Jerry cartoon, I would say.

[Immanuel Can]

Anyway, Mannie, just tell the lil pissant yes, unless Henry repents, accepts Christ as the way, he'll burn in hell forever & ever.

That's a conversation for me and Henry...for whom I have a lot of respect.

If Biggie doesn't know the answer, whose fault is that? So he gets what he deserves. He learns to speak respectfully, or he gets nothing. That's how we roll.

[Immanuel Can]

I guess you didn't read this part of one of my posts. No worry. It's not your fault. You're only human like the rest of us.

Two problems: firstly, "hope" is not a word that fits with "oblivion." Secondly, there isn't actually any hope of that.

Why? And why not? I'm very interested in learning from experts on the unknown so please proceed!

Well, here's the interesting thing. People say they want "oblivion," but they don't go running to it. They actually want to live...as do you. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here. But you are.

So I understand what you're trying to do: you're trying to say, "I'm sad and tired." Okay, that's fair. Life can be pretty hard. But you're here: and it sure beats the blackness of nothingness forever.

[Gary Childress]

Hell only exists in the present. Causation puts you in hell. As a human you have the capacity to know, and the means of knowing, the causation that will put you in hell right now. The way out of hell is also caused, right now. Some causes created by your actions will land you in hell now and all the nows you can ever know. Other causes by your actions will not spare you. Still other causes by your actions will remove you from hell you are in now, while you’re still able to act. Christianity explains the causes and the effects.

Oh, but we have IC who tells us that hell is eternal and follows death. Are you here contradicting the Bible? Is this your ALTERNATIVE interpretation of the sacred texts written in stone and unwavering in their translation?

[Gary Childress]

Two problems: firstly, "hope" is not a word that fits with "oblivion." Secondly, there isn't actually any hope of that.

Why? And why not? I'm very interested in learning from experts on the unknown so please proceed!

Well, here's the interesting thing. People say they want "oblivion," but they don't go running to it. They actually want to live...as do you. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here. But you are.

So I understand what you're trying to do: you're trying to say, "I'm sad and tired." Okay, that's fair. Life can be pretty hard. But you're here: and it sure beats the blackness of nothingness forever.

I would prefer oblivion to being with Yahweh. I mean, this is the God who wanted to destroy every living thing on Earth because some of them irritated him. I mean, worship who you want, go to heaven if you want, IC. Just leave me out of it. That's all. Enjoy eternity staring at nothing because you won't have eye balls and hearing nothing because you won't have ears. Go for it. Best wishes. But not for me.

[Immanuel Can]

burn in Hell for eternity

That does appear to be a stumbling block of comprehension for atheists.

They say it's unfair. Then they run to it.

But here's what the Scriptures say:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, one can argue that they don't think that that is what is going to happen. They can argue that IF it were to happen, they don't think they're bad enough to deserve it. They can argue that they don't understand. They can argue that, like Harry, they don't think it's "just."

But they can't argue that that is not what the Book says. It is what it is. And whatever Christianity has to say about it, that's it.

[Belinda]

burn in Hell for eternity

That does appear to be a stumbling block of comprehension for atheists.

They say it's unfair. Then they run to it.

But here's what the Scriptures say:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, one can argue that they don't think that that is what is going to happen. They can argue that IF it were to happen, they don't think they're bad enough to deserve it. They can argue that they don't understand. They can argue that, like Harry, they don't think it's "just."

But they can't argue that that is not what the Book says. It is what it is. And whatever Christianity has to say about it, that's it.

You idolise a book. A book about God is not God.

[Gary Childress]

burn in Hell for eternity

That does appear to be a stumbling block of comprehension for atheists.

They say it's unfair. Then they run to it.

But here's what the Scriptures say:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, one can argue that they don't think that that is what is going to happen. They can argue that IF it were to happen, they don't think they're bad enough to deserve it. They can argue that they don't understand. They can argue that, like Harry, they don't think it's "just."

But they can't argue that that is not what the Book says. It is what it is. And whatever Christianity has to say about it, that's it.

Is that from Revelations, the supposed prophecies of Paul? Pretty nasty things to do to mere mortals for no other reason than not worshiping Yahweh. That's some God.

[Immanuel Can]

I would prefer oblivion to being with Yahweh. I mean, this is the God who wanted to destroy every living thing on Earth because some of them irritated him.

You've been reading the wrong books, if you think that's how it is. If you read the Bible, you'll find the flood only came because men's hearts had become so wicked that "every thought of their hearts was only evil continually." That's what it says.

...not for me.

Thou hast said it. I wish you would not. But what you decide, that fate shall be. It will never be oblivion, of course, because that's not one of the alternatives; but if you really make your choice as being without YHWH, He shall seal as you wish. You shall have it.

Choose better.

[Immanuel Can]

You idolise a book. A book about God is not God.

I don't.

That's all that's worth saying about that.

[Immanuel Can]

That does appear to be a stumbling block of comprehension for atheists.

They say it's unfair. Then they run to it.

But here's what the Scriptures say:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Now, one can argue that they don't think that that is what is going to happen. They can argue that IF it were to happen, they don't think they're bad enough to deserve it. They can argue that they don't understand. They can argue that, like Harry, they don't think it's "just."

But they can't argue that that is not what the Book says. It is what it is. And whatever Christianity has to say about it, that's it.

Is that from Revelations, the supposed prophecies of Paul?

The apostle John, actually.

And all who choose Hell choose it. You're choosing it right now. Why shouldn't you get exactly what you're choosing?

[Gary Childress]

I would prefer oblivion to being with Yahweh. I mean, this is the God who wanted to destroy every living thing on Earth because some of them irritated him.

You've been reading the wrong books, if you think that's how it is. If you read the Bible, you'll find the flood only came because men's hearts had become so wicked that "every thought of their hearts was only evil continually." That's what it says.

...not for me.

Thou hast said it. I wish you would not. But what you decide, that fate shall be. It will never be oblivion, of course, because that's not one of the alternatives; but if you really make your choice as being without YHWH, He shall seal as you wish. You shall have it.

Choose better.

I told you I would prefer oblivion. Why wouldn't YHWH grant me that?