Ukraine Crisis

[Age]

I think Putin has had an argument with his girlfriend and he's taking it out on Ukraine. He might even start using his nuclear toys just to 'show her who's boss and what a big man he is'.

Actually this isn't at all far fetched. World leaders (especially despotic ones) are generally the most inadequate and shallow of creatures behind closed doors and out of the public eye.

And you KNOW this HOW, EXACTLY?

I've read accounts and books by people who knew them and studied them. You do realise that they have private lives, don't you, and that there were many people who knew them personally? Stalin had most of his family slaughtered. The women close to him had a habit of committing suicide. His own daughter had to flee to the US because she truly believed that he was planning to have her murdered. He forced those around him to become hopeless alcoholics while he barely drank. That doesn't speak 'normal, well-adjusted person' to me. Hitler had a bizarre relationship with his niece, and she ended up killing herself too. He was a drug-addicted nonentity in real life who bored those around him to distraction with his droning monologues that could go on for hours. There is a book about Putin called 'The man without a face', and how he seemed to just 'appear' out of nowhere. Perhaps he took the title to heart, hence his obsession with making his face as ridiculous as possible. He traded in his wife for someone half his age, and he appears to have an obsession with Russian gymnasts. The saying 'Power corrupts........' is one of the truest and most insightful sayings ever uttered. The human race needs to grow up and abolish leaders altogether. Just have collectives who administer the wishes of the population--as they have in Switzerland, where the 'leader' role is nominal.
It goes without saying that anyone who lusts after power over others has a seriously flawed character.

Okay.

But the answer to the question is; 'from third hand accounts', correct? Or, is there another more correct answer?

[Age]

I think Putin has had an argument with his girlfriend and he's taking it out on Ukraine. He might even start using his nuclear toys just to 'show her who's boss and what a big man he is'.

Actually this isn't at all far fetched. World leaders (especially despotic ones) are generally the most inadequate and shallow of creatures behind closed doors and out of the public eye.

And you KNOW this HOW, EXACTLY?

I knew you wouldn't be able to do it.

Who was this intended to, exactly?

And, what are you referencing here, exactly?

You wrote and stated something. I just questioned you about it. So, it appears that you would be the only one who was asked to do anything here. Therefore, you would be the only able to, or NOT able to, do something here.

OCD is a terrible disorder.

Okay, if you say so.

But who are you claiming has obsessive compulsive disorder?

And, obssesive compulsive disorder in relation to 'what', exactly?

You can't help it, poor thing.

I can NOT help 'what', supposedly?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

And you KNOW this HOW, EXACTLY?

I've read accounts and books by people who knew them and studied them. You do realise that they have private lives, don't you, and that there were many people who knew them personally? Stalin had most of his family slaughtered. The women close to him had a habit of committing suicide. His own daughter had to flee to the US because she truly believed that he was planning to have her murdered. He forced those around him to become hopeless alcoholics while he barely drank. That doesn't speak 'normal, well-adjusted person' to me. Hitler had a bizarre relationship with his niece, and she ended up killing herself too. He was a drug-addicted nonentity in real life who bored those around him to distraction with his droning monologues that could go on for hours. There is a book about Putin called 'The man without a face', and how he seemed to just 'appear' out of nowhere. Perhaps he took the title to heart, hence his obsession with making his face as ridiculous as possible. He traded in his wife for someone half his age, and he appears to have an obsession with Russian gymnasts. The saying 'Power corrupts........' is one of the truest and most insightful sayings ever uttered. The human race needs to grow up and abolish leaders altogether. Just have collectives who administer the wishes of the population--as they have in Switzerland, where the 'leader' role is nominal.
It goes without saying that anyone who lusts after power over others has a seriously flawed character.

Okay.

But the answer to the question is; 'from third hand accounts', correct? Or, is there another more correct answer?

Ok, I used my time machine and went back and met them personally. I was hoping to keep my machine a secret but I guess it's 'out there' now

[vegetariantaxidermy]

What a ridiculous world. We have two old men holding the future of the planet in their hands, both competing with each other over who has had the worst cosmetic surgery on his face.

[iambiguous]

But the Ukraine conflict goes way, way beyond that. It revolves around fundamental differences regarding how the world works. Putin could be said to reflect the "might makes right" school of thought.

Nope. This war is the same as any other: an iteration of The State vys with an iteration of The State. You aren't privy to it, but you're expected to support and mebbe die for the particular faction, party, or iteration of The State that lays claim to you.

You feel moved to pick a side. I tell you: all iterations of The State are illegitimate and none have a claim on you.

But, as I say, you are yours: do with yourself as you think best.

You know, whatever that means.

As for "picking a side" here, I'm sticking with dasein. You pick the one you were brainwashed as a child to pick and/or the one that, subjectively, given your own accumulation of "personal experiences", you were predisposed existentially to pick.

Then there are those who think up things like "an iteration of The State vys with an iteration of The State" to explain...what exactly?

Again, whatever, for all practical purposes, that even means.

Anyone here willing to hazard a guess? Explain what you think it means and then note how it informs your own political prejudices regarding Ukraine.

Finally, it's not what we think is best here that most fascinates me. Instead, it's how, existentially, we come to think one thing rather than another. And then the extent to which philosophers, ethicists and political scientists, using the tools at their disposal, are or are not able to come up with the most rational and virtuous frame of mind that there can ever possibly be.

The objective moral and political truth about Ukraine. And, for some, the objective spiritual truth in turn.

[Age]

WHO, in what is (wrongly) called "right mind" would write things like; ' 'you', human beings ', ' in the days when this was being written ', and/or ' could NOT YET SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' IS, EXACTLY '?

What do 'you' think or ENVISION would be the reason of WHY I write THE WAY I DO?

I think you write the way you do because your brain is hardwired to enjoy pissing off everyone it can by being what it believes is cute without concern for what others think as long as they are annoyed by the unconventional way in which you write and think, so to SPEAK.

Is "your" 'brain' 'hardwired' to think and say what 'it' does here? Or, is it just the individual 'brain', in this body, that is so-called 'hardwired' to think and speak in the particular way 'it' does?

Also, instead of 'thinking' 'things' and one wants to KNOW 'things', then just asking for CLARITY I found is one way to LEARN and KNOW.

1. This 'brain' does NOT 'believe' ANY 'thing'. So, if this was meant to be the 'cause', then this is just Wrong.

2. I write, in a particular way, for the REASONS that I have ALREADY EXPLAINED. And NONE of those reasons include "pissing off" ANY one at all.

3. If 'you', or ANY one else, "gets", (or more correctly, 'feels'), ANNOYED, then is it REALLY 'me' who is CONTROLLING 'this' ALSO? Do you REALLY think or BELIEVE that it is I who has this much POWER over 'you', that I CAN CONTROL how each one of 'you' feels, and thinks?

To make it absolutely CLEAR here, I do NOT write to so-call "piss" ANY one off.

Let me put 'this' this way for 'you'.

Imagine someone came to SEE and UNDERSTAND that the earth actually revolves around the sun, and not the other way around, but EVERY one else besides that one BELIEVES otherwise.

Now, instead of just trying to SHOW and REVEAL what thee ACTUAL Truth IS, which takes such a long time, and which some people will for centuries later STILL NOT believe what has ALREADY been PROVED True anyway, I just SHOW and REVEAL HOW ANY one can FIND and SEE what thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' IS all by "their" OWN 'selves'. Although this does take a 'long time' also, it WILL, eventually, change 'things' for the BETTER, forever more.

Part of this process of CHANGE involves SHOWING and REVEALING, through ACTUAL PROOF, how human beings USED to 'think' and 'mis/behave'. I write, the way I do, for THIS REASON. I am NOT writing to "piss ANY one off". I write USING 'you', posters, here to SHOW and REVEAL HOW and WHY 'people', back in "those days", were just NOT OPEN to what thee ACTUAL Truth of 'things' ACTUALLY IS. Just like the people, back in "those days", when they would NOT LISTEN, NOT ACCEPT, and NOT AGREE with thee ACTUAL Truth that it is ACTUALLY the earth that revolves around the sun.

By the way, some people do get, what is called, "pissed off" when what they BELIEVE is true is being continually explained is NOT true AT ALL.

To SHOW how to PREVENT the Wrong way of 'thinking' and 'misbehaving' EVER AGAIN, I write in a PARTICULAR WAY. That is; instead of just trying to TELL 'you', posters, what is ACTUALLY True, Right, AND Correct, I just USE 'you' to SHOW to 'future readers', HOW and WHY 'you', posters, back in "those days", would NOT LISTEN, and so could NOT HEAR, NOR SEE, thee ACTUAL Truth, to REVEAL what NOT to do in the future, and from NOW ON.

It is said, 'For effective writing one has to understand and/or know your audience'. The 'audience' I am writing FOR is NOT necessarily 'you', human beings, in the days when this is being written. I am writing for the 'audience' who has been PREPARED, and thus Truly Honest and OPEN, which, as can be SEEN, is NOT YET 'you', adult human beings, in the days when this being written.

[Age]

I think Putin has had an argument with his girlfriend and he's taking it out on Ukraine. He might even start using his nuclear toys just to 'show her who's boss and what a big man he is'.

Actually this isn't at all far fetched. World leaders (especially despotic ones) are generally the most inadequate and shallow of creatures behind closed doors and out of the public eye.

And you KNOW this HOW, EXACTLY?

The post starts with thinking, not with knowing.

If you HAD CLARIFIED, then you would have LEARNED, and KNOWN, what I was referring to, EXACTLY.

Anyway, the author naturally knows her own thoughts.

Was ANY one suggesting otherwise?

If yes, then who, EXACTLY?

[henry quirk]

You know, whatever that means.

Tell you what: ask me questions, avoid lecturin' (cuz, me, I don't give a flip what you find fascinating), play it straight, and, mebbe, you might get what I'm talkin' about.

[iambiguous]

You know, whatever that means.

Tell you what: ask me questions, avoid lecturin' (cuz, me, I don't give a flip what you find fascinating), play it straight, and, mebbe, you might get what I'm talkin' about.

I think it is best if we just move on to others.

I truly do believe that you are not interested in others getting what you are talking about, but in agreeing with whatever it is that is being talked about. Ukraine merely being the topic of this thread.

Though, as I suggested, we can always create a new thread in order to discuss our respective conclusions regarding how individuals go about acquiring moral and political value judgments.

If not, no problem, just end it all here.

[Age]

And you KNOW this HOW, EXACTLY?

The post starts with thinking, not with knowing. Anyway, the author naturally knows her own thoughts.

Which indicates a seriously flawed character.

What does the 'character' of a person, or the 'feature' or looks of a body, have to do with the ACTUAL WORDS being USED?

Considering this is a 'philosophy' forum is even looking at the 'person', the 'character', or the 'body', let alone mentioning and talking about 'them' REALLY what 'philosophical discussion' are meant to entail?

This is a shame, because after weeding out all the affectation and irritating 'style' you can find snippets of rationality and good sense.

And, if one STOPPED ASSUMING and/or BELIEVING there are "affectations", and an "irritating style", in my writings, then they WILL STOP SEEING "them", AS WELL.

"They" are CERTAIN NOT in there 'intentionally', nor even 'unintentionally' from what I can SEE.

There is CERTAINLY absolutely NOTHING 'pretentious', in my writings, NOR an 'irritating style' AT ALL.

OBVIOUSLY, 'my style' is a DIFFERENT 'style' to what most of 'you', human beings, in 'these days' are used to, but how human beings wrote, say one or 200 years before 'these days' could also be SEEN as an 'irritating style', to 'you', as well. And, vice-versa, how 'you', human beings, write 'now', at ANY time, could be SEEN as 'irritating' to those human beings one hundred or two hundred years into the future, or, those human beings into the past. But, words, their definitions, language, and writing style, itself, like just about EVERY 'thing' else, just CHANGES, and EVOLVES.

And, one saying that, 'The earth revolves around the sun', could have been "irritating" to those who BELIEVE otherwise, and vice-versa, the one trying to explain that 'the earth REALLY does ACTUALLY revolve around the sun', could be 'irritated' by those saying, "No it does NOT", and the only evidence and proof of this is, 'because we BELIEVE so'.

[henry quirk]

I think it is best if we just move on to others.

Yeah, I figured you'd opt out.

Though, as I suggested, we can always create a new thread in order to discuss our respective conclusions regarding how individuals go about acquiring moral and political value judgments.

You can start whatever thread you like...if it interests me, I'll post there.

But, I won't be lectured to or assessed or used as an example (and with that on the table, I'm thinkin' you won't start that thread).

[Age]

I believe God is watching over the world and will administer justice as needed. In the end, virtue and good will win. They always do.

Do you actually believe this?

Well, leaving Ukraine aside for the moment, if what you say is true, how then do you explain a point I raised over at ILP:

...you don't wonder why God created a planet prone to "natural disasters" that devastate the lives of millions year in and year out?

There is only so-called "devastation" because of the way one LOOKS AT and SEE 'things'. 'you', ones', have not been around for that long at all, really and relatively. So, "year in and year out", hitherto, is REALLY a very short period of time

And, the reason WHY 'you' do NOT wonder WHY God created a planet prone to so-called 'natural' "disasters" is because 'you' would NOT even be existing, NOW, if it was not for those so-called 'natural' "disasters".

Why He brings around the occasional "extinction event" from time to time?

Because this is EXACTLY how the Universe/God creates Life, Itself.

Evolution creates ALL 'things' through 'extinction events', which allows new 'things' to come-into-existence, and which eventually exit-out-of-existence

Why He created viruses and countless other horrific medical afflictions that take a terrible toll on the flocks down here.

WHY are 'you', adult human beings, SO SELFISH that 'you' LOOK AT just about EVERY 'thing' as though they ALL revolve around 'you'?

'Viruses' and EACH and EVERY so-called 'medical affliction' is just a PART OF Life, Itself. Exactly like 'you' are just a PART OF Life, Itself.

Also, WHY do you NOT affirm the IRREFUTABLE Fact that 'you' would NOT even be existing here, 'today', if it was NOT for ALL of the 'viruses' and so-called "medical afflictions" that came BEFORE 'you', did.

Oh, and by the way, WHY do some of 'you', adult human beings, call or refer to God as a "he"?

On children for example. You can start here for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... _disorders

One can either LOOK AT and SEE 'affliction' and 'try' and PRETEND that a Life without 'viruses' or 'diseases', or, one can LOOK AT and SEE that non human created 'viruses' and 'diseases' are just a PART OF Life, and living, and that one would NOT even be existing and ABLE TO LOOK AT and SEE 'things' if it was NOT for the 'naturally' occurring 'viruses' and 'diseases', themselves. The CHOICE is 'yours' ALONE.

And, again, that's assuming a God/the God is your God. And not one of the countless others that have worshipped and adored down through the ages.

So, which God were your questions referring to, EXACTLY?

Things like Ukraine -- and the Holocaust -- are precisely the reason that some like Rabbi Harold Kushner suggested that if God does exist, He must not be omnipotent.

But being 'omnipotent' does NOT mean that the Creator of ALL 'things', which is just thee Universe/God, Itself, is going to CHANGE 'things' just because one tiny, INSIGNIFICANT, whining, and whinging species WANTED 'things' CHANGE to what the 'SPOILED little BRATS' WANT.

Imagine what would happen if the Creator of ALL 'things', [thee Universe, or 'God' as some call or name the Creator of ALL 'things'], CHANGED 'things' to what EACH and EVERY species WANTED?

And, contrary to popular BELIEF, 'you', human beings, have absolutely NO MORE importance over absolutely ANY other 'thing'. 'you', each and ALL may like to think or BELIEVE 'you' have, but I can ASSURE 'you' that absolutely NONE of 'you' is more important, (nor less important) than ANY other 'thing'.

Otherwise, how is it not entirely reasonable to construe Him as a sadistic monster?

By the way I just partly EXPLAINED some 'things' above.

But 'you' are absolutely FREE to SEE and PERCEIVE absolutely ANY 'thing' absolutely ANY way 'you' like.

[Age]

Agree or not?

There’s a fake war in Ukraine that has the purpose of distracting the attention of Americans from domestic issues.

HQ will agree with the statement

No, I don't agree...not completely.

I said: We're not watchin' a war: we're watchin' propaganda about a conflict we're told is a war. We're an audience to another scripted event.

Sumthin' violent is goin' over there. There's a conflict of some kind. There's also a helluva lot of massagin' of info goin' on. Different folks with different agendas are skewin' info then presenting it. It's reality television: real events are recorded then the footage is edited to fit a storyline...30 hours of raw and unscripted is turned into an hour of polished and scripted.

Why? To distract from domestic woes, yeah, but also: these folks can't help themselves...they're as autistic as you-know-who...for them, the storyline is real, and what's actual is just fodder for the storytellin'.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_(1976_film)

Here is a PRIME EXAMPLE of when a person will, literally, BELIEVE some 'things', and NOT other 'things', all depending on their 'agenda'.

[iambiguous]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/01/opin ... putin.html

THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

The battle for Ukraine unfolding before our eyes has the potential to be the most transformational event in Europe since World War II and the most dangerous confrontation for the world since the Cuban missile crisis. I see three possible scenarios for how this story ends. I call them “the full-blown disaster,” “the dirty compromise” and “salvation.”

The disaster scenario is now underway: Unless Vladimir Putin has a change of heart or can be deterred by the West, he appears willing to kill as many people as necessary and destroy as much of Ukraine’s infrastructure as necessary to erase Ukraine as a free independent state and culture and wipe out its leadership. This scenario could lead to war crimes the scale of which has not been seen in Europe since the Nazis — crimes that would make Vladimir Putin, his cronies and Russia as a country all global pariahs.

The wired, globalized world has never had to deal with a leader accused of this level of war crimes whose country has a landmass spanning 11 time zones, is one of the world’s largest oil and gas providers and possesses the biggest arsenal of nuclear warheads of any nation.

Every day that Putin refuses to stop we get closer to the gates of hell. With each TikTok video and cellphone shot showing Putin’s brutality, it will be harder and harder for the world to look away. But to intervene risks igniting the first war in the heart of Europe involving nuclear weapons.

And...

I wish Putin was just motivated by a desire to keep Ukraine out of NATO; his appetite has grown far beyond that. Putin is in the grip of magical thinking: As Fiona Hill, one of America’s premier Russia experts, said in an interview published on Monday by Politico, he believes that there is something called “Russky Mir,” or a “Russian World”; that Ukrainians and Russians are “one people”; and that it is his mission to engineer “regathering all the Russian-speakers in different places that belonged at some point to the Russian tsardom.”

To realize that vision, Putin believes that it is his right and duty to challenge what Hill calls “a rules-based system in which the things that countries want are not taken by force.” And if the U.S. and its allies attempt to get in Putin’s way — or try to humiliate him the way they did Russia at the end of the Cold War — he is signaling that he is ready to out-crazy us. Or, as Putin warned the other day before putting his nuclear force on high alert, anyone who gets in his way should be ready to face “consequences they have never seen” before. Add to all this the mounting reports questioning Putin’s state of mind and you have a terrifying cocktail.

my emphasis

Tell me this isn't getting more and more ominous by the day.

Of course, with newspapers you can never be entirely certain it's not being blown up in order to sell more newspapers. News after all is their business.

In any event, here is a conflict that has the potential to escalate into nuclear war. Hell, you and I could be vaporized if that happens.

Uh, stay tuned:

https://youtu.be/C2zGCh06ZVs
https://youtu.be/QgWDu1N9kLE

[Dontaskme]

Are 7 billions humans really just going to sit back and let a couple of arsehole 'leader types' on an ego trip destroy the only home they have? Probably

This is what happens when we knowingly surround ourselves with the nuclear weapons we have deliberately created knowing what utter chaos and destruction they will cause when detonated, a destruction so unthinkable capable of wiping every living life form from the face of the earth.

Everyone is now trapped in the same diabolical mess of our own making. How can anyone stop someone who is able to threaten others that they will press the red button? and while threats are very easy to make, actually carrying those threats out is a completely different ball game, because to do so, would be likened to the Greek legend of Sisyphus, who is condemned by the gods for eternity to repeatedly roll a boulder up a hill only to have it roll down again once he got it to the top, as a metaphor for the individual's persistent struggle against the essential absurdity of life. This is the stupid mindless irresponsible quagmire we have created for ourselves.

Metaphorically speaking, once that boulder starts rolling, we're all screwed. So we either get this right, or we get it terribly wrong, in the way we deal with this crisis.