Roe Vs Wade? God the greatest Abortionist.

[Lacewing]

It is difficult to know until you've been in that position.
Have you been in that position?

No, I haven't.

So if "being in the position" is requisite of knowing it...

...you don't.

As I already said -- I don't know what I would do. You and Henrietta haven't been in that position either.

[Lacewing]

Lacewing: All you have to do is answer why you claimed that I 'rely on the The State for everything'.

Yeah, I did phrase it that way, didn't I.

Probably woulda been better if I'd just left that off.

Especially since it's not true.

You're obviously a self-reliant sort who'd never turn to The State for solutions to problems created by The State.

Like you?

Lacewing: Henrietta's body might be different, as well as her circumstances.

Does circumstance determine response, or does the person in the circumstance determine response?

Both are involved in influencing the outcome.

As for a different body: sure. But your scenario involved me as a woman, not a woman like me. In the first, I can propose how I would, and would have, handled pregnancy; in the second, I can't.

It's not just about having a different body. Growing up female would absolutely affect who you are and how you think.

Bein' principled doesn't make one nice.

What has your flawed personality got to do with being principled?

Lacewing: It is not my responsibility to birth a bean of life.

Mebbe, though, it is your responsibility not to kill one.

You kill forms of life all the time. Where's your responsibility? It's justified or insignificant when YOU do it, right? What a load of self-righteous crap. You, of all people, telling other people what they should do... oh wait a minute, you actually do that a lot, don't you!

Lacewing: What responsibility do men have for causing pregnancies?

As much as the ladies.

If it were equal, then men could be tasked to birth the resulting babies whether they wanted to or not. And we could make laws FORCING them to do it. Then I bet we'd see a shift in perspective.

Lacewing: Do you think there are reasons it's right to kill adult people?

Self-defense, defense of others, defense of property.

Doesn't a woman have a right to defend herself, and family, life/property from the huge impact of an unwanted pregnancy?

Lacewing: On whose terms is that decided?

God's.

People tell people what God wants, and then they impose that on more people.

Or if that doesn't work for you: natural law/rights.

Lots of different interpretations of that.

And if that doesn't work for you: the universal intuition all men have that each is his own and others ought not take his life, liberty, or property.

An unwanted pregnancy takes life, liberty, and property -- so who takes precedence? The bean of life or the fully-formed and functioning person?
Get a fucking grip!

[Lacewing]

You don't talk like anybody who knows God.

Precisely how does one that actually KNOWS God - via direct interaction with this entity, speak?

Good question!

The idea of 'knowing God' is a personal trip for each individual.

How 'God' speaks would most naturally and likely be coming through the diverse range of EVERYONE.

Therefore, 'God' is unlikely to be represented accurately by any individual -- rather, 'God' would be represented by encompassing all.

[henry quirk]

Does circumstance determine response, or does the person in the circumstance determine response?

Both are involved in influencing the outcome.

Which determines response?


Growing up female would absolutely affect who you are and how you think.

Then I wouldn't be me, so I can't speak to what she would do or why.

I can only say: she ought not kill her baby.


You kill forms of life all the time.

Not human ones: you know, persons.


If it were equal, then men could be tasked to birth the resulting babies whether they wanted to or not. And we could make laws FORCING them to do it. Then I bet we'd see a shift in perspective.

So, are you sayin' men don't have the same responsibility but should, or, are you sayin' men don't have the same responsibility and shouldn't?


Doesn't a woman have a right to defend herself, and family, life/property from the huge impact of an unwanted pregnancy?

Sure. How is the baby a threat to her life, liberty, or property? It was invited, after all.


An unwanted pregnancy takes life, liberty, and property -- so who takes precedence? The bean of life or the fully-formed and functioning person?

A woman hobbled, usually by way of her own actions for *nine months so the life she invited into the world can live vs killin' that invited life cuz it's inconvenient: that's your choice.




*and -- yeah -- it just has to be nine months...adoption is an option, and -- despite the nightmare bureaucracy involved -- is a better choice than killin' a baby

[Immanuel Can]

God told me...

That's the thing I don't believe.

You don't talk like anybody who knows God.

Precisely how does one that actually KNOWS God - via direct interaction with this entity, speak?

Your grammar doesn't seem quite right there,...and I can't figure out what you're asking, as a consequence.

Your words literally say, "...how does one...speak"? (The rest of the grammar is modifiers. Those are your interrogative, subject and verb.) So it means you're askign me how a person speaks (in the relevant conditions)?

Maybe reword?

[Immanuel Can]

No, I haven't.

So if "being in the position" is requisite of knowing it...

...you don't.

As I already said -- I don't know what I would do. You and Henrietta haven't been in that position either.

It isn't necessary that we are. We don't need to be murderers to know "Thou shalt not murder."

In fact, we're actually better not having participated in such an action, because a person who has gets a motive for dishonesty and excuse making. The three of us can now view it calmly, on principle, because we are not guilty or complicit in the matter.

[attofishpi]

That's the thing I don't believe.

You don't talk like anybody who knows God.

Precisely how does one that actually KNOWS God - via direct interaction with this entity, speak?

Your grammar doesn't seem quite right there,...and I can't figure out what you're asking, as a consequence.

The grammar's fine you arrogant pretentious cockwart <-- btw, is that not how someone that is in communication with God, talks?
Reword, using your words?
How does someone that knows God, talk?

[Immanuel Can]

How does someone that knows God, talk?

Ephesians 4:29 -- "Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear."

James 1:26 -- "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this person’s religion is worthless."

Colossians 3:8 -- "But now you also, rid yourselves of all of them: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene speech from your mouth."

Enough?

[henry quirk]

atto...

who's there?

it's god

god?

yep

dear lord...

we're not that close, guy

my god...what do you want of me?

be a good person...don't hurt people...be productive

is that all?

oh yeah...stop tellin' folks you're my spokesman...if I wanna talk to folks, I will

but, lord, I am your spokesman!

no, guy...you're just disordered

but...

but nuthin'

but...

just do what I told you...be a good person...don't hurt people...be productive...and stop tellin' folks you're my spokesman...gotta go...mind me

god?

god?

god?

[attofishpi]

How does someone that knows God, talk?

Ephesians 4:29 -- "Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear."

James 1:26 -- "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this person’s religion is worthless."

Colossians 3:8 -- "But now you also, rid yourselves of all of them: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene speech from your mouth."

Enough?

Er, lol.

What did Christ (God) have to say about such matters?

...and a big irony - that in between looking after my extremely sick mother, I have to eventually get to a point that was insisted I mention to you and your ilk yesterday.

[Immanuel Can]

How does someone that knows God, talk?

Ephesians 4:29 -- "Let no unwholesome word come out of your mouth, but if there is any good word for edification according to the need of the moment, say that, so that it will give grace to those who hear."

James 1:26 -- "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this person’s religion is worthless."

Colossians 3:8 -- "But now you also, rid yourselves of all of them: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene speech from your mouth."

Enough?

What did Christ (God) have to say about such matters?

Well, here's what Peter, who walked and talked with Jesus said about how He talked:

"For you have been called for this purpose, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you would follow in His steps, He who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being abusively insulted, He did not insult in return; while suffering, He did not threaten, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously..." (1 Peter 2: 21-23)

And here's what people who heard Him speak said:

"...all the people were speaking well of Him, and admiring the gracious words which were coming from His lips..." (Luke 4:22)

As for his actual words, they are recorded in four gospels. You can look at any of them and judge whether or not your speech is like His.

[uwot]

A woman hobbled, usually by way of her own actions for *nine months so the life she invited into the world can live vs killin' that invited life cuz it's inconvenient: that's your choice.

You say:

Not once in my 59 years have I impregnated a woman (and I haven't lived a celibate life).

Were those occasions when you were not celibate all invitations to life? As I understand, you would have no reservations about shooting someone who was in your house uninvited.

[Sculptor]

Does circumstance determine response, or does the person in the circumstance determine response?

Both are involved in influencing the outcome.

Which determines response?


Growing up female would absolutely affect who you are and how you think.

Then I wouldn't be me, so I can't speak to what she would do or why.

I can only say: she ought not kill her baby.

No one is talking about killing babies.
No one is advicating killing babies.
We are not even talking about the babies god kills.
This is about reflecting that god aborts more foetuses that humans do.

You kill forms of life all the time.

Not human ones: you know, persons.

Actually Americs is pretty good at killing humans; either humans who live in other countries, or domestic kills.
You yourself have even given praise to those that have, or those that have escaped conviction for doing so.
But this thread is not about killing people

If it were equal, then men could be tasked to birth the resulting babies whether they wanted to or not. And we could make laws FORCING them to do it. Then I bet we'd see a shift in perspective.

SPoken like a true libertarian.

*and -- yeah -- it just has to be nine months...adoption is an option, and -- despite the nightmare bureaucracy involved -- is a better choice than killin' a baby

Better for who?

[henry quirk]

A woman hobbled, usually by way of her own actions for *nine months so the life she invited into the world can live vs killin' that invited life cuz it's inconvenient: that's your choice.

You say:

Not once in my 59 years have I impregnated a woman (and I haven't lived a celibate life).

*Were those occasions when you were not celibate all invitations to life? As I understand, you would have no reservations about shooting someone who was in your house uninvited.

*yep...I've always taken precautions...if those precautions failed...well...I woulda been on the hook.

It is what it is.

[henry quirk]

This is about reflecting that god aborts more foetuses that humans do.

which god?


You yourself have even given praise to those that have, or those that have escaped conviction for doing so.

citation, please


SPoken like a true libertarian.

that's a lace quote


Better for who?

everyone involved.