Imperefct God

[RCSaunders]

Certainly not based on what you wrote.

It doesn't matter that you don't understand or agree with it, it is exactly what I meant.

The world itself has always been the world of infinite opportunity and possibility for those who chose to use it. Most don't, because the world is ruthless and demanding and most people choose to deny it and seek short cuts to success and easy answers provided by their ideologies. Most people live in denial of the demands of reality and wonder why their lives are such disasters and blame everything in the world, society, or culture, or their genetics, or circumstances, or others for their problems and unhappiness, when the cause of all their problems are their own chosen actions.

Quite frankly, I see no reason to want to save most of what is referred to as mankind or humanity. If it needs saving, it's doomed. Why would you choose to be part of it?

It depends a great deal if people are even in a position to live up to your cliché formula for success and happiness. For mucho millions, if not billions, choosing an option isn't even optional. Obviously there is some truth in what you say which has been incessantly repeated for I don't know how long, but to define it into some fixed principle is completely naive; it shows someone who judges or misjudges others based ONLY on his own experience which, btw, could have been disrupted in any number of ways as often happens. The world is much more complicated and now much more dangerous than it ever was. Your old chicken soup story of success doesn't cut it anymore.

Life's tough!

[Dubious]

It doesn't matter that you don't understand or agree with it, it is exactly what I meant.

The world itself has always been the world of infinite opportunity and possibility for those who chose to use it. Most don't, because the world is ruthless and demanding and most people choose to deny it and seek short cuts to success and easy answers provided by their ideologies. Most people live in denial of the demands of reality and wonder why their lives are such disasters and blame everything in the world, society, or culture, or their genetics, or circumstances, or others for their problems and unhappiness, when the cause of all their problems are their own chosen actions.

Quite frankly, I see no reason to want to save most of what is referred to as mankind or humanity. If it needs saving, it's doomed. Why would you choose to be part of it?

It depends a great deal if people are even in a position to live up to your cliché formula for success and happiness. For mucho millions, if not billions, choosing an option isn't even optional. Obviously there is some truth in what you say which has been incessantly repeated for I don't know how long, but to define it into some fixed principle is completely naive; it shows someone who judges or misjudges others based ONLY on his own experience which, btw, could have been disrupted in any number of ways as often happens. The world is much more complicated and now much more dangerous than it ever was. Your old chicken soup story of success doesn't cut it anymore.

Life's tough!

How very observant of you! Any other crystal clear clichés you'd like to impart?

[Dontaskme]

Most of the misery in the world is because most people think they can get away with a successful life without paying the price, then blame everything in the world for their problems when they find out they can't cheat reality.

Says you. But far from being an accurate report. More of a personal self bias world view. We've all got them.

Imposing Life on another being through procreation will always be a gamble. Imagine being born into a world where their success or failure will come at a very high price. But people love to take the gamble with other peoples lives, so be it.

This is the place where you will become who you are. Some people are lucky enough to be born with wide-awake open eyes, they instinctively know too much. It's this sort of awareness that would give rise to the old saying "ignorance is bliss".

As I see it, reality is without claim, blame, shame, fame. And yet judging others is what appears to happen.


"It's just a ride"-Bill Hicks

Some people, not everyone, will come to the realisation that they want to get off the ride, they simply choose to check out of the claim, blame, shame, fame, game.

Life simply IS . This moment simply IS. How one wishes to internalise this is up to them.

[RCSaunders]

The world is much more complicated and now much more dangerous than it ever was.

That is largely true, though not completely. Most of the horrors and dangers of this age are the direct result of human beings implementing their save-the-world schemes and social/political solutions to what they think are the world's problems and attempting to force their own ideologies on the entire world--or at least their own community.

On the other hand, no credit to the do-gooders and world-savers, many of the dangers and difficulties of the past have been eliminated. No one dies of polio, diphtheria, or smallpox today. Diseases like strep and tetanus are rare, as are plague and in most countries yellow fever and malaria, which killed millions every year just 150 years ago. There are millions of people living in the world today who are living into the 80s and 90s who only a hundred years ago would barely have lived into their 60s. There a millions of people in the United States enjoying comfortable homes, free education and health care, driving cars and watching large screen TVs, with plenty of leisure time who, 200 years ago, would have been lucky to have more than one change of clothing. If you really think this is a dangerous world, you would have loved early medieval Europe.

Your old chicken soup story of success doesn't cut it anymore.

You may not like cliches and may call it whatever you like, but the reason they are cliches is because they are simple expression of the truth. It is and will always be true: , "you cannot have your cake and eat it too," "there's no such thing as a free lunch," "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it," and "the road to hell is paved with good intentions," etc.

[Belinda]

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

It is worth the price, but you are right. Whether anyone else is willing to pay the price or not is no one else's business.

Most of the misery in the world is because most people think they can get away with a successful life without paying the price, then blame everything in the world for their problems when they find out they can't cheat reality.

I is true that

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

. This is a personal and subjective choice, or should be. Optimism of the sort that claims 'the price is worth it' is the psychology of Panglossian fools who are usually politically conservative and doing quite well out of it thank you very much.

[Dontaskme]

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

It is worth the price, but you are right. Whether anyone else is willing to pay the price or not is no one else's business.

Most of the misery in the world is because most people think they can get away with a successful life without paying the price, then blame everything in the world for their problems when they find out they can't cheat reality.

I is true that

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

. This is a personal and subjective choice, or should be. Optimism of the sort that claims 'the price is worth it' is the psychology of Panglossian fools who are usually politically conservative and doing quite well out of it thank you very much.

I just don’t like the tone used by the black panther.

Just because someone doesn’t think life is worth the price of admission doesn’t necessarily imply they are blaming the world for their problems or failures… I think that’s just a stupid statement to make. For example I’ve personally led a very successful life raising a successful family who are now themselves living successful lives. And yet I really have to say I do not think life for sentient creatures is a good deal. I personally wouldn’t touch life on earth with a barge pole if I got to choose it again. That’s all I’m saying, and that attitude does not make one a complainer, rather it’s just being honest and not being duped into seeing the world always through rose coloured spectacles.

[Immanuel Can]

This is a personal and subjective choice, or should be. Optimism of the sort that claims 'the price is worth it' is the psychology of Panglossian fools who are usually politically conservative and doing quite well out of it thank you very much.

It's not about politics, B. Conservatives are not necessarily optimists...particularly given the political leadership we've got today. But what do we say about the Leftist fools who continue to believe in Socialism even though it's caused misery and death in 100% of real-world cases where it's been tried? That's pretty optimistic; and I doubt there's anything a Conservative could decide to believe that's more far-removed from reality than that.

What can make a Conservative optimistic is the experience of having grown up, taken responsibility for himself, earned his own way, and not having needed to take a handout from anyone. That gives one a huge sense of empowerment, achievement, ownership and positivity. And yeah, that's pretty optimistic.

[RCSaunders]

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

It is worth the price, but you are right. Whether anyone else is willing to pay the price or not is no one else's business.

Most of the misery in the world is because most people think they can get away with a successful life without paying the price, then blame everything in the world for their problems when they find out they can't cheat reality.

I is true that

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

. This is a personal and subjective choice, or should be. Optimism of the sort that claims 'the price is worth it' is the psychology of Panglossian fools who are usually politically conservative and doing quite well out of it thank you very much.

Long before you were born I was reading and enjoying Voltaire, and it is his own views that mine most nearly reflect. In your narrow perspective it might seem Panglossian, but it was Voltaire's own recognition of the true nature of reality that made it possible for him to be the brilliant autodidact, polymath, and polyglot that he was. It was Voltaire who first translated Newton's Principia into French, and his mistress, the brilliant Émilie du Châtelet who actually corrected one of Newton's mistakes.

My view of reality, like Voltaire's, recognizes reality is, ruthless, demanding, unforgiving, and seemingly cruel.

Reality is ruthless. Defy reality, and it will destroy you. Refuse to work, and you will starve. Refuse to learn, and the mistakes you make in your ignorance will kill you.

Reality is demanding. You must conform to the requirements of reality all the time, because the moment you let up, it will strike you down. Stop paying attention, just for a few moments, while driving on the highway at 70 miles per hour. Don't bother paying your bills for a month. Forget your insulin injections for a day. Just forget where little Sarah is for a while at the Mall.

Reality is unforgiving. You've made a mistake, but the law forgives you, your parents and friends forgive you, you even manage to forgive yourself, but reality never forgives. It may be a forgivable mistake, but the dead animal cannot be made alive again, the pregnant girl cannot be made "unpregnant", you cannot cancel what you have done, ever! Have you been unfaithful once, then you will always have been unfaithful once. You do something stupid and loose an arm, a leg, or put out your own or someone else's eye. You may never do another thing so foolish, and you may be forgiven by others, but you will never have the arm, leg, or eye, yours or another's, restored.

Reality seems cruel. Disease, death, disaster strike without regard to anyone's position or opinions. The world is full of destruction and misery, though most of it is created by other men. But all of nature seems cruel and the entire chain of life is one of death, killing, and being killed.

But reality cannot be charged with cruelty or any other evil, because reality makes no choices. Reality provides no values, but there can be no value that does not recognize the nature of reality and conform to reality's requirements. All the evil in the world is human action in defiance of the requirements of reality, because most of humanity hates reality.

What mankind wishes for is a reality that is pliable, easy-going, forgiving, and kind. Mankind hates reality as it actually is. He hates the necessity of having to work hard all the time, hates the necessity of having to learn so much, hates never being able to act on whim, or passion, or impulse without suffering the consequences, hates knowing he cannot do wrong and get away with it, hates knowing one cannot get something for nothing.

For those few who are willing to recognize the demands of reality and choose to embrace reality for what it is and find their joy in always being the best they can be, always striving to know and understand the world as well as they can, always working and producing all they can of real value, always seeking the best in all things, willingly accepting the consequences of their wrong choices and fully enjoying the rewards of their right ones being fully responsible for everything they choose to believe, think, and do, reality is an endless source or possibility and reward. If one expects a world without any pain, without any risk or danger, without the possibility of failure or loss, without having to work all the time, they want what only lying religions and political ideologies promise and reality refuses.

You do understand, I'm sure, that the character of Pangloss was a satire of Leibniz' assertion that this is the "best of all possible worlds" (because God made it). The mistake is Leibniz attempting to attribute value to reality itself by making reality both contingent and teleological.

Voltaire certainly didn't satirize the possibility of success in this world, else he would have been satirizing his own life. He satirized the view that good was something one could have without earning it, provided by some benevolent reality or God.

As for politically conservative. Before you make any more silly mistakes like that, please see, What I Don't Believe.

[Atla]

It is worth the price, but you are right. Whether anyone else is willing to pay the price or not is no one else's business.

Most of the misery in the world is because most people think they can get away with a successful life without paying the price, then blame everything in the world for their problems when they find out they can't cheat reality.

I is true that

NO ONE has the right to tell others that the price is worth it.

. This is a personal and subjective choice, or should be. Optimism of the sort that claims 'the price is worth it' is the psychology of Panglossian fools who are usually politically conservative and doing quite well out of it thank you very much.

Long before you were born I was reading and enjoying Voltaire, and it is his own views that mine most nearly reflect. In your narrow perspective it might seem Panglossian, but it was Voltaire's own recognition of the true nature of reality that made it possible for him to be the brilliant autodidact, polymath, and polyglot that he was. It was Voltaire who first translated Newton's Principia into French, and his mistress, the brilliant Émilie du Châtelet who actually corrected one of Newton's mistakes.

My view of reality, like Voltaire's, recognizes reality is, ruthless, demanding, unforgiving, and seemingly cruel.

Reality is ruthless. Defy reality, and it will destroy you. Refuse to work, and you will starve. Refuse to learn, and the mistakes you make in your ignorance will kill you.

Reality is demanding. You must conform to the requirements of reality all the time, because the moment you let up, it will strike you down. Stop paying attention, just for a few moments, while driving on the highway at 70 miles per hour. Don't bother paying your bills for a month. Forget your insulin injections for a day. Just forget where little Sarah is for a while at the Mall.

Reality is unforgiving. You've made a mistake, but the law forgives you, your parents and friends forgive you, you even manage to forgive yourself, but reality never forgives. It may be a forgivable mistake, but the dead animal cannot be made alive again, the pregnant girl cannot be made "unpregnant", you cannot cancel what you have done, ever! Have you been unfaithful once, then you will always have been unfaithful once. You do something stupid and loose an arm, a leg, or put out your own or someone else's eye. You may never do another thing so foolish, and you may be forgiven by others, but you will never have the arm, leg, or eye, yours or another's, restored.

Reality seems cruel. Disease, death, disaster strike without regard to anyone's position or opinions. The world is full of destruction and misery, though most of it is created by other men. But all of nature seems cruel and the entire chain of life is one of death, killing, and being killed.

But reality cannot be charged with cruelty or any other evil, because reality makes no choices. Reality provides no values, but there can be no value that does not recognize the nature of reality and conform to reality's requirements. All the evil in the world is human action in defiance of the requirements of reality, because most of humanity hates reality.

What mankind wishes for is a reality that is pliable, easy-going, forgiving, and kind. Mankind hates reality as it actually is. He hates the necessity of having to work hard all the time, hates the necessity of having to learn so much, hates never being able to act on whim, or passion, or impulse without suffering the consequences, hates knowing he cannot do wrong and get away with it, hates knowing one cannot get something for nothing.

For those few who are willing to recognize the demands of reality and choose to embrace reality for what it is and find their joy in always being the best they can be, always striving to know and understand the world as well as they can, always working and producing all they can of real value, always seeking the best in all things, willingly accepting the consequences of their wrong choices and fully enjoying the rewards of their right ones being fully responsible for everything they choose to believe, think, and do, reality is an endless source or possibility and reward. If one expects a world without any pain, without any risk or danger, without the possibility of failure or loss, without having to work all the time, they want what only lying religions and political ideologies promise and reality refuses.

You do understand, I'm sure, that the character of Pangloss was a satire of Leibniz' assertion that this is the "best of all possible worlds" (because God made it). The mistake is Leibniz attempting to attribute value to reality itself by making reality both contingent and teleological.

Voltaire certainly didn't satirize the possibility of success in this world, else he would have been satirizing his own life. He satirized the view that good was something one could have without earning it, provided by some benevolent reality or God.

As for politically conservative. Before you make any more silly mistakes like that, please see, What I Don't Believe.

Funny thing is that I accepted reality as it is even more than you have, overcame something that would have killed most other people, am at a fairly good place financially, also have peace of mind, also more or less finished my intellectual life project etc. and have many more possibilities before me. But I still have no idea what endless source of possibility and reward you're talking about, what are you so happy about? Why would someone even want "success" so badly, in this ridiculous reality?

[Dubious]

The world is much more complicated and now much more dangerous than it ever was.

That is largely true, though not completely. Most of the horrors and dangers of this age are the direct result of human beings implementing their save-the-world schemes and social/political solutions to what they think are the world's problems and attempting to force their own ideologies on the entire world--or at least their own community.

On the other hand, no credit to the do-gooders and world-savers, many of the dangers and difficulties of the past have been eliminated. No one dies of polio, diphtheria, or smallpox today. Diseases like strep and tetanus are rare, as are plague and in most countries yellow fever and malaria, which killed millions every year just 150 years ago. There are millions of people living in the world today who are living into the 80s and 90s who only a hundred years ago would barely have lived into their 60s. There a millions of people in the United States enjoying comfortable homes, free education and health care, driving cars and watching large screen TVs, with plenty of leisure time who, 200 years ago, would have been lucky to have more than one change of clothing. If you really think this is a dangerous world, you would have loved early medieval Europe.

Your old chicken soup story of success doesn't cut it anymore.

You may not like cliches and may call it whatever you like, but the reason they are cliches is because they are simple expression of the truth. It is and will always be true: , "you cannot have your cake and eat it too," "there's no such thing as a free lunch," "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it," and "the road to hell is paved with good intentions," etc.

A lot of cliches are total bunk or at best, extremely trite. Also nothing of what you've written here refers to the fact that you judge others based solely on your circumstances and YOUR opinions of life and what creates success. All of your details and litany of clichés are completely superfluous and meaningless in light of that. Speaking of clichés have you heard of this one...there for the grace of god go I? Ever put yourself in someone else's shoes before deciding whether they're failures not having abided by your Horatio Alger rules of success?

I'm also well aware of the many descriptions of what life was like in the Middle Ages...and beyond. But life went on nevertheless, the planet still being in a fairly pristine state. The dangers now are one's of global devastation together with its geopolitical consequences no-longer amenable to correction. In effect, warnings abound that our current lifestyle, as described by you, is not in any sense guaranteed to continue.

In regard to the road to hell, without those "good intentions" we'd still be dying by cholera, syphilis and tuberculosis, while suffering other painful agonies throughout life, etc. Most minds default to cliches without question when they want to justify anything.

[RCSaunders]

I is true that . This is a personal and subjective choice, or should be. Optimism of the sort that claims 'the price is worth it' is the psychology of Panglossian fools who are usually politically conservative and doing quite well out of it thank you very much.

Long before you were born I was reading and enjoying Voltaire, and it is his own views that mine most nearly reflect. In your narrow perspective it might seem Panglossian, but it was Voltaire's own recognition of the true nature of reality that made it possible for him to be the brilliant autodidact, polymath, and polyglot that he was. It was Voltaire who first translated Newton's Principia into French, and his mistress, the brilliant Émilie du Châtelet who actually corrected one of Newton's mistakes.

My view of reality, like Voltaire's, recognizes reality is, ruthless, demanding, unforgiving, and seemingly cruel.

Reality is ruthless. Defy reality, and it will destroy you. Refuse to work, and you will starve. Refuse to learn, and the mistakes you make in your ignorance will kill you.

Reality is demanding. You must conform to the requirements of reality all the time, because the moment you let up, it will strike you down. Stop paying attention, just for a few moments, while driving on the highway at 70 miles per hour. Don't bother paying your bills for a month. Forget your insulin injections for a day. Just forget where little Sarah is for a while at the Mall.

Reality is unforgiving. You've made a mistake, but the law forgives you, your parents and friends forgive you, you even manage to forgive yourself, but reality never forgives. It may be a forgivable mistake, but the dead animal cannot be made alive again, the pregnant girl cannot be made "unpregnant", you cannot cancel what you have done, ever! Have you been unfaithful once, then you will always have been unfaithful once. You do something stupid and loose an arm, a leg, or put out your own or someone else's eye. You may never do another thing so foolish, and you may be forgiven by others, but you will never have the arm, leg, or eye, yours or another's, restored.

Reality seems cruel. Disease, death, disaster strike without regard to anyone's position or opinions. The world is full of destruction and misery, though most of it is created by other men. But all of nature seems cruel and the entire chain of life is one of death, killing, and being killed.

But reality cannot be charged with cruelty or any other evil, because reality makes no choices. Reality provides no values, but there can be no value that does not recognize the nature of reality and conform to reality's requirements. All the evil in the world is human action in defiance of the requirements of reality, because most of humanity hates reality.

What mankind wishes for is a reality that is pliable, easy-going, forgiving, and kind. Mankind hates reality as it actually is. He hates the necessity of having to work hard all the time, hates the necessity of having to learn so much, hates never being able to act on whim, or passion, or impulse without suffering the consequences, hates knowing he cannot do wrong and get away with it, hates knowing one cannot get something for nothing.

For those few who are willing to recognize the demands of reality and choose to embrace reality for what it is and find their joy in always being the best they can be, always striving to know and understand the world as well as they can, always working and producing all they can of real value, always seeking the best in all things, willingly accepting the consequences of their wrong choices and fully enjoying the rewards of their right ones being fully responsible for everything they choose to believe, think, and do, reality is an endless source or possibility and reward. If one expects a world without any pain, without any risk or danger, without the possibility of failure or loss, without having to work all the time, they want what only lying religions and political ideologies promise and reality refuses.

You do understand, I'm sure, that the character of Pangloss was a satire of Leibniz' assertion that this is the "best of all possible worlds" (because God made it). The mistake is Leibniz attempting to attribute value to reality itself by making reality both contingent and teleological.

Voltaire certainly didn't satirize the possibility of success in this world, else he would have been satirizing his own life. He satirized the view that good was something one could have without earning it, provided by some benevolent reality or God.

As for politically conservative. Before you make any more silly mistakes like that, please see, What I Don't Believe.

Funny thing is that I accepted reality as it is even more than you have, overcame something that would have killed most other people, am at a fairly good place financially, also have peace of mind, also more or less finished my intellectual life project etc. and have many more possibilities before me. But I still have no idea what endless source of possibility and reward you're talking about, what are you so happy about? Why would someone even want "success" so badly, in this ridiculous reality?

I just use the word success to differentiate a life that is enjoyed and fulfilled from a life one suffers and regrets. It's a byproduct or description, not an objective.

Everybody is different. I have no idea what would satisfy another, but I have enjoyed all my life, even the lowest points (at least five times next to death). When Dostoevsky wrote, "White Nights," he ended it with this line, "My god, one moment of ecstasy, why is that not enough for a lifetime?"

Perhaps you've never known such a moment. I have. Not only one, but many, as well as other times of joy, any one of which would have been enough for a lifetime.

Maybe that's not available to everyone. I certainly cannot know what anyone else's experience is. I know there are others who feel the same way about life as I do, and others who feel about it as you do. I have no explanation for the difference, nor do I need one.

Have you ever watched wild animals in pursuit of their lives, doing all the things their life depends on. Except for domesticated cats, most of them work all the time and certainly seem to be enjoying their lives. I think it is part of living nature for an organism to enjoy doing what it's nature requires, and I think that is true of human organisms as well. I think most human beings do not enjoy their lives because they live in defiance of the requirements of their natures, as if work, and learning, and thinking and achieving were some kind of burden instead of the means to life and enjoyment. For me it is the whole reason for living and it provides a life of endless discovery, adventure, and wonderful moments of ecstasy.

[RCSaunders]

The world is much more complicated and now much more dangerous than it ever was.

That is largely true, though not completely. Most of the horrors and dangers of this age are the direct result of human beings implementing their save-the-world schemes and social/political solutions to what they think are the world's problems and attempting to force their own ideologies on the entire world--or at least their own community.

On the other hand, no credit to the do-gooders and world-savers, many of the dangers and difficulties of the past have been eliminated. No one dies of polio, diphtheria, or smallpox today. Diseases like strep and tetanus are rare, as are plague and in most countries yellow fever and malaria, which killed millions every year just 150 years ago. There are millions of people living in the world today who are living into the 80s and 90s who only a hundred years ago would barely have lived into their 60s. There a millions of people in the United States enjoying comfortable homes, free education and health care, driving cars and watching large screen TVs, with plenty of leisure time who, 200 years ago, would have been lucky to have more than one change of clothing. If you really think this is a dangerous world, you would have loved early medieval Europe.

Your old chicken soup story of success doesn't cut it anymore.

You may not like cliches and may call it whatever you like, but the reason they are cliches is because they are simple expression of the truth. It is and will always be true: , "you cannot have your cake and eat it too," "there's no such thing as a free lunch," "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it," and "the road to hell is paved with good intentions," etc.

A lot of cliches are total bunk or at best, extremely trite. Also nothing of what you've written here refers to the fact that you judge others based solely on your circumstances and YOUR opinions of life and what creates success. All of your details and litany of clichés are completely superfluous and meaningless in light of that. Speaking of clichés have you heard of this one...there for the grace of god go I? Ever put yourself in someone else's shoes before deciding whether they're failures not having abided by your Horatio Alger rules of success?

I'm also well aware of the many descriptions of what life was like in the Middle Ages...and beyond. But life went on nevertheless, the planet still being in a fairly pristine state. The dangers now are one's of global devastation together with its geopolitical consequences no-longer amenable to correction. In effect, warnings abound that our current lifestyle, as described by you, is not in any sense guaranteed to continue.

In regard to the road to hell, without those "good intentions" we'd still be dying by cholera, syphilis and tuberculosis, while suffering other painful agonies throughout life, etc. Most minds default to cliches without question when they want to justify anything.

If your way of life satisfies you, I wish you the best.

[Dubious]

That is largely true, though not completely. Most of the horrors and dangers of this age are the direct result of human beings implementing their save-the-world schemes and social/political solutions to what they think are the world's problems and attempting to force their own ideologies on the entire world--or at least their own community.

On the other hand, no credit to the do-gooders and world-savers, many of the dangers and difficulties of the past have been eliminated. No one dies of polio, diphtheria, or smallpox today. Diseases like strep and tetanus are rare, as are plague and in most countries yellow fever and malaria, which killed millions every year just 150 years ago. There are millions of people living in the world today who are living into the 80s and 90s who only a hundred years ago would barely have lived into their 60s. There a millions of people in the United States enjoying comfortable homes, free education and health care, driving cars and watching large screen TVs, with plenty of leisure time who, 200 years ago, would have been lucky to have more than one change of clothing. If you really think this is a dangerous world, you would have loved early medieval Europe.

You may not like cliches and may call it whatever you like, but the reason they are cliches is because they are simple expression of the truth. It is and will always be true: , "you cannot have your cake and eat it too," "there's no such thing as a free lunch," "Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it," and "the road to hell is paved with good intentions," etc.

A lot of cliches are total bunk or at best, extremely trite. Also nothing of what you've written here refers to the fact that you judge others based solely on your circumstances and YOUR opinions of life and what creates success. All of your details and litany of clichés are completely superfluous and meaningless in light of that. Speaking of clichés have you heard of this one...there for the grace of god go I? Ever put yourself in someone else's shoes before deciding whether they're failures not having abided by your Horatio Alger rules of success?

I'm also well aware of the many descriptions of what life was like in the Middle Ages...and beyond. But life went on nevertheless, the planet still being in a fairly pristine state. The dangers now are one's of global devastation together with its geopolitical consequences no-longer amenable to correction. In effect, warnings abound that our current lifestyle, as described by you, is not in any sense guaranteed to continue.

In regard to the road to hell, without those "good intentions" we'd still be dying by cholera, syphilis and tuberculosis, while suffering other painful agonies throughout life, etc. Most minds default to cliches without question when they want to justify anything.

If your way of life satisfies you, I wish you the best.

Thank you! No point wishing you the best; you already seem to have it.

[Lacewing]

Everybody is different. I have no idea what would satisfy another, but I have enjoyed all my life, even the lowest points (at least five times next to death). When Dostoevsky wrote, "White Nights," he ended it with this line, "My god, one moment of ecstasy, why is that not enough for a lifetime?"

Perhaps you've never known such a moment. I have. Not only one, but many, as well as other times of joy, any one of which would have been enough for a lifetime.

Maybe that's not available to everyone. I certainly cannot know what anyone else's experience is. I know there are others who feel the same way about life as I do, and others who feel about it as you do. I have no explanation for the difference, nor do I need one.

I agree with you RC. When I talk about my gratitude and joy, it is typically in response to someone claiming that I can't really know such a thing truthfully... either because I'm not a theist, or I'm not seeing the awful truth about life/reality, or because I don't think like they do. I guess they prefer to explain/excuse their own limitations in such a way, rather than considering there are other valid (and maybe even preferable) ways to perceive and live. Some people are primarily happy and satisfied through thick and thin. So instead of dismissing that potential/quality, I would think that people who don't see/feel that way would say, "Hey... what am I not seeing here?" What other doors of perception might be available to walk through? Why would anyone think that they see/know all the potential there is, ever???????

It doesn't make sense to me that life is just a huge horrible mess that we can only endure and survive. What makes sense to me is that many of us operate on a very surface level -- believing the limitations of our perception -- meanwhile, there is amazing capability all around to be tapped into. It makes more sense to me that life is vibrantly full of every possibility to be experienced, and we get to figure out ways to do it. If we accept the surface value, that's all we get. In my experience, there has always been more beyond every perspective I've ever had. And I think that makes perfect sense.

[Dontaskme]

To understand the illusory nature of separation, the assumption/claim there is a knower/believer...

Thinking has to think in reverse, it has to go backwards, back to the blank space between thought, that blank space that seems to allow thought to be present.

Thought arises in pure emptiness, thought is an appearance of nothing...thoughts are an 'illusory appearance' of no thing, because thought is made of the exact same substance as their source....the illusion is only seen as real in the conceptual context of language, where knowledge informs there can only be 'no thing' - 'thinging'.


Reality has no 'agency'. Reality is totally devoid of any agency separate from itself. Agency is an illusory appearance of it's same self source which is 'no thing'. . 'Agency' manifests as being an artificial sense of separate self, which is the appearance of no thing thinging..and is the dual nature of non-duality, which is always the same one reality.

Reality has no limitations..separation is the price of manifestation.

Each of our illusory ''limited minds'' is just an 'artificial conceptual agency' ...an appearance, albeit illusory because nothing is actually appearing...although infinite consciousness does apparently appear to itself as a limited world.

The whole idea of ''appearance'' is nothing more than the nondual infinity itself expressing itself as a world of 'knowledge', 'the knower' and 'the believer' ( duality)....In reality, life is a dream dreamt by no one. No thing happens in a dream.

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In the dream, pain and pleasure are very much tangible experiences, and dislike and likes, and all preferences are real experiences too...but they are not happening to any independant agency.

When the the claim that life is happening to a 'me' that is the apparent suffering.