Silly Religion

[Eodnhoj7]

Reciprocity is a dual of the Golden Rule,

Not at all so. The Golden Rule requires much more of us than mere "reciprocity." It positively commands active doing of good, and even the doing of good to actual enemies. Reciprocity only demands that we love those who love us first, and hate those who hate us: "get them before they get you," or at least, "get them after they get you," is all it takes to fulfill the principle of reciprocity. Otherwise, ignore those who ignore you works just fine too.

That's a pretty low bar.

It demands us to love others as we love ourselves. It is reciprocal in nature with the self being projected.

[Eodnhoj7]

nearly all "pagan" religions were/are Poltheistic.

"the great wolf" "the great lion" etc......

Yes they still worship deities with some people worshipping one of many deities.

I was interested in attending a local pagan event... thinking it would be more focused on nature... but the invitation requested bringing offerings to a couple of specific pagan figures, and that just seems too "worshippy" for me. Why don't we bring offerings for this beautiful Earth experience that supports us, and for this opportunity of a vibrant, sensory-filled life, and to ourselves for surviving and navigating all the craziness and challenge of an Earth life? Doesn't matter what the religion is, it seems I'm just not into any particular stories about worshipping or glorifying imaginary or dead beings from long ago. There is so much in the present moment to embrace with appreciation and to gain awareness from.

The Gods are anthropomorphizations of different facets of the psyche.

[RCSaunders]

“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [Romans 12:20]

"Love your enemy, feed your enemy, give your enemy your coat," sounds very loving, until you get to Romans and find out what the real motive is.

You're thinking "coals of fire" is literal, rather than figurative, and speaks of real "hot coals" instead of inflaming the sense of shame someone feels when they've harmed someone who's done them wrong? In that case, it would seem that no Christian in history has obeyed the command as you see it. I have never seen any of them "heap hot coals" literally on anyone.

I think you're misreading there, RC.

In point of fact, I think there's a very real sense that if I harmed someone who turned around and showed me grace, that I would feel like I had hot coals in my heart, if not in on my head. But here's the favour such a person would have done me; to awaken me to what a complete moral wreck I was behaving like, and perchance to cause me to become ashamed and change. And those are "coals of fire" I would need.

You think it's a metaphor referring to the present and one's feelings, I think it's a metaphor referring to the future and one's final condition in Gehenna (Sheol or Hades). In either case, I don't know why doing something that causes another person suffering, even if it's only shame and remorse, and not eternal burning, that it's really very loving. "I'm going to be sweet, kind, and generous to you so you'll feel crummy," is not my idea of a noble motive.

As for using an inducement to discomfort to improve someone else (a method I regard as dishonest since it appeals to feelings instead of reason), I doubt if it works. Honey still catches more flies than vinegar, but perhaps, at bottom, that is really what you are thinking.

[Lacewing]

The Gods are anthroporphizations of different facets of the psyche.

Why idolize and worship them?

[Immanuel Can]

Reciprocity is a dual of the Golden Rule,

Not at all so. The Golden Rule requires much more of us than mere "reciprocity." It positively commands active doing of good, and even the doing of good to actual enemies. Reciprocity only demands that we love those who love us first, and hate those who hate us: "get them before they get you," or at least, "get them after they get you," is all it takes to fulfill the principle of reciprocity. Otherwise, ignore those who ignore you works just fine too.

That's a pretty low bar.

It demands us to love others as we love ourselves. It is reciprocal in nature with the self being projected.

You're not paying attention to the specifics of what each "rule" actually implies. That's the only way you can imagine they are the same. But you're still wrong. Sorry.

Reciprocity does not say "love yourself." It doesn't say, "love your neighbour," either. It doesn't say anything more than "Give back whatever you get, good or bad."

[Immanuel Can]

In either case, I don't know why doing something that causes another person suffering, even if it's only shame and remorse, and not eternal burning, that it's really very loving.

It's loving for two reasons: in the present, the victim returns kindness instead of malice. In the longer term, it creates entirely justified shame in the perpetrator, which is a key incentive to repentance. If the price is a little discomfort in the present moment, then that's way better for the perp than anything else. So the victim is seeking the long-term best interests of the perp. It's not a case of "revenge" at all.

[Eodnhoj7]

Not at all so. The Golden Rule requires much more of us than mere "reciprocity." It positively commands active doing of good, and even the doing of good to actual enemies. Reciprocity only demands that we love those who love us first, and hate those who hate us: "get them before they get you," or at least, "get them after they get you," is all it takes to fulfill the principle of reciprocity. Otherwise, ignore those who ignore you works just fine too.

That's a pretty low bar.

It demands us to love others as we love ourselves. It is reciprocal in nature with the self being projected.

You're not paying attention to the specifics of what each "rule" actually implies. That's the only way you can imagine they are the same. But you're still wrong. Sorry.

Reciprocity does not say "love yourself." It doesn't say, "love your neighbour," either. It doesn't say anything more than "Give back whatever you get, good or bad."

Reciprocity is the assumption and projection of patterns. As the assumption and projection of patterns it shares the same nature of the Golden Rule.

[Eodnhoj7]

The Gods are anthroporphizations of different facets of the psyche.

Why idolize and worship them?

They are idolizing specific facets of the psyche and embodying them. Take for example a fertility goddess. The goddess is just a feminine part of the psyche which embodies all behaviors of fertility (sexual attractiveness, mate selection, preparing body for reproduction, etc.). The worship puts the mind body and spirit in a mode of being for reproduction. The same applies for other facets of reproduction, such as crop growth.

[Lacewing]

They are idolizing specific facets of the psyche and embodying them. Take for example a fertility goddess. The goddess is just a feminine part of the psyche which embodies all behaviors of fertility (sexual attractiveness, mate selection, preparing body for reproduction, etc.). The worship puts the mind body and spirit in a mode of being for reproduction. The same applies for other facets of reproduction, such as crop growth.

I can appreciate that. It seems, however, that the initial benefit and meaning are often forgotten as the methods turn into idol worship, and people are told what the idols want. The focus is on the symbols and those who control/translate the symbols.

Why do humans feel the need to worship beings they imagine as greater? How do they become convinced of such "separation" between themselves and that idea?

[RCSaunders]

The Gods are anthroporphizations of different facets of the psyche.

What does that mean? Which Psyche do you mean? Cupid's lover or the human mind. If you mean the human mind how can that be anthropomorphization. The human mind is a human attribute and anthropomorphize means to attribute human attributes to something.

[Eodnhoj7]

They are idolizing specific facets of the psyche and embodying them. Take for example a fertility goddess. The goddess is just a feminine part of the psyche which embodies all behaviors of fertility (sexual attractiveness, mate selection, preparing body for reproduction, etc.). The worship puts the mind body and spirit in a mode of being for reproduction. The same applies for other facets of reproduction, such as crop growth.

I can appreciate that. It seems, however, that the initial benefit and meaning are often forgotten as the methods turn into idol worship, and people are told what the idols want. The focus is on the symbols and those who control/translate the symbols.

Why do humans feel the need to worship beings they imagine as greater? How do they become convinced of such "separation" between themselves and that idea?

All forms of idolization is the prioritizing of something disproportionate to its place in the totality of being. It is extremism at its root.

[Eodnhoj7]

The Gods are anthroporphizations of different facets of the psyche.

What does that mean? Which Psyche do you mean? Cupid's lover or the human mind. If you mean the human mind how can that be anthropomorphization. The human mind is a human attribute and anthropomorphize means to attribute human attributes to something.

See response to Lacewing in this thread.

[Lacewing]

the initial benefit and meaning are often forgotten as the methods turn into idol worship, and people are told what the idols want. The focus is on the symbols and those who control/translate the symbols.

Why do humans feel the need to worship beings they imagine as greater? How do they become convinced of such "separation" between themselves and that idea?

All forms of idolization is the prioritizing of something disproportionate to its place in the totality of being. It is extremism at its root.

Okay. I'm still interested in the "why" and "how" as a way to question/explore what we do, and to consider the implications of it.

[Eodnhoj7]

the initial benefit and meaning are often forgotten as the methods turn into idol worship, and people are told what the idols want. The focus is on the symbols and those who control/translate the symbols.

Why do humans feel the need to worship beings they imagine as greater? How do they become convinced of such "separation" between themselves and that idea?

All forms of idolization is the prioritizing of something disproportionate to its place in the totality of being. It is extremism at its root.

Okay. I'm still interested in the "why" and "how" as a way to question/explore what we do, and to consider the implications of it.

I think that people become disillusioned due to desire and these desires build up until people cannot reason properly....as to the why and how, people fall in love with the wrong things and it ends in a regressive spiral.

[Immanuel Can]

Reciprocity is the assumption and projection of patterns. As the assumption and projection of patterns it shares the same nature of the Golden Rule.

Now, that sentence doesn't even make sense.