What is Belief?

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Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 am
Age wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:57 pm
PrfromTexas wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:18 am

Beliefs are inherent - I would not deny that in any case. While our perception and interpretation of phenomena and things changes due to temporal and spacial changes, beliefs also change accordingly.

If beliefs can also change, then why do you have BELIEFS, and maintain them?

If beliefs can change, then that means that they were NOT true, right, nor correct, in the beginning.
BELIEFS do NOT just appear and are uncontrollable.
So, If a BELIEF is NOT necessarily True, Right, nor Correct, and you do in fact control what to BELIEVE and DISBELIEVE, then WHY do YOU choose to have and/or hold some BELIEFS, in the first place?

I control whether I have, and hold, a BELIEF, or not. But of course, you may well BELIEVE that BELIEFS are NOT controllable, and that you have absolutely NO say in what happens here regarding this. So, what do you (choose to) say and/or (choose to) BELIEVE here, in this regard?
BELIEFs come in a range from unjustified to justified true beliefs.

This does NOT necessitate that human beings MUST HAVE beliefs.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 amThus a belief can change from 'unjustified' to 'justified' and this is what is happening in Science.

This does NOT necessitate that human beings MUST HAVE beliefs.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 amWhen the apple hit Newton's head, he believed there must be some sort of operating laws behind the experience and event.

What actual EVIDENCE do YOU have that a human being called "newtown" BELIEVED such a thing?

IF you have said such EVIDENCE, then this STILL does NOT necessitate that human beings MUST HAVE beliefs.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 am He then went on to justify his beliefs as a theory,

Developing a 'theory' does NOT necessarily justify one's beliefs, in and of itself. Any one can have any belief, they so choose to have, and then develop any theory, they so choose to do, from that belief. But this does NOT, by itself, justify the belief, NOR, does it necessitate that human beings MUST HAVE beliefs.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 ami.e. a Justified True Belief that can be tested repeatedly with the same results.

The whole point in developing a theory, based upon or not based upon a BELIEF, is to have it tested. If that testing results in a theory, which was based upon a BELIEF, being found to be justifiably True, then one MAY then NOW propose that that is a Justified True Belief. But to do it the order that you have proposed here is beyond reason.
1. Have a BELIEF. (Unnecessary).
2. Then justify this belief as a theory (Absurdity in itself).
3. Call that theory a Justified True Belief. (More absurdity).
4. And THEN test, repeatedly. (Bit late if the theory is ALREADY called a Justified True Belief)
5. Wait to see if the same results occur. (Why wait? From the beginning at step 1, it was already a BELIEF, and would a person have a BELIEF in some thing that was not even True? You had that BELIEF already JUSTIFIED back at step 2. And at step 3 that BELIEF was already a Justified True Belief).
This IS just preposterous.

What actual EVIDENCE do you HAVE that human beings MUST HAVE beliefs?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:08 amIt is madness to insist "I do not have any beliefs"


Okay. Your BELIEF, and argument, now is;
I am absolutely mad.
You are completely sane.
Therefore, this MUST be True. (Full stop)

WHERE is YOUR example of just one BELIEF that, you insist, I MUST HAVE?
Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 am
Age wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:17 pm This ability to exist and survive can also be very simply and easily evidence AND proven, nowadays, through young human beings. Young human beings do NOT have any BELIEFS.

IF, however, you can prove with evidence that human babies are born WITH beliefs, then that gives your BELIEF more weight, but it is still NOT evidence and thus still does NOT prove that your belief is true, right, and correct.

IF, unfortunately, you have NO proof that human beings are born with BELIEFS, then you will have to inform us at what stage of a human being do BELIEFS start to arise? AND, if a human being can live, survive, and exist up to that stage, then that is enough EVIDENCE and PROOF, to me, that human beings do NOT need BELIEFS.
Will you insist human beings acquire their sexual tendencies/impulses after puberty from nurture, i.e. experience and observations around them?
I will NOT insist any thing, especially when words CAN BE interpreted so differently, and, that thing COULD BE some thing else.

For example; Human beings can VERY EASILY acquire their sexual tendencies/impulses way BEFORE puberty from ill-received "nurturing".
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amIn contrast babies do not have sexual urges.
If you say so. I have NO view on this.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amObviously you cannot be that blind and ignorance of what is NATURE and its potential.
That is it, once again use the 'ignorance' word of another, as if by just using this word this gives your, attempt at an, argument more weight and support. Any one would have to blind to NOT see what you are TRYING TO do here.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amFact is ALL humans are born with the potential to be a sexual being.
So what? This does NOT necessitate that human beings MUST HAVE beliefs.

Just being born with the POTENTIAL to be, or have, some thing does not, and I will repeat DOES NOT, mean that ALL human beings will be, and have, that thing.

For example, YOU, veritas, are born with the POTENTIAL to be an islamic fundamental terrorist, and to commit the most barbaric murderous crime EVER committed throughout human beings' history. But does that mean that you WILL be like that, and do that. Or, do you insist that it does mean that?

Just HAVING the POTENTIAL of some thing does NOT necessitate that human beings MUST HAVE it.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amIt is the same with BELIEF.
ALL humans are born with the potential in the brain/mind to believe and have beliefs to facilitate survival.
It could be argued that ALL human beings are born with the potential within the body to see and have views to facilitate survival. And, I do NOT think you would find much, if any, disagreement. In fact this VIEW could be argued for much more strongly, than any argument for BELIEFS could be.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amThose beliefs [not fully proven propositions] that facilitated their survival that our ancestors had [thus our being] were embedded as instinct in future generations.
WHERE is the EVIDENCE for this BELIEF of YOURS?

Your brain can illusion up just absolutely any thing it likes to to TRY TO formulate any argument for its already held BELIEF. But either you have a sound, valid argument for; Human beings MUST HAVE BELIEFS, or you do NOT.

If you do, then provide it.
If you do not, then just accept the fact that you DO NOT, and therefore it is just only a BELIEF, which is actually based on nothing other than another BELIEF and assumption, that you have.

You have already contradicted yourself, in your contradictory arguments here by saying that by just HAVING the POTENTIAL of some thing, then one MUST POSSESS it. But by your other very strongly HELD BELIEF, you insist that SOME human beings have the POTENTIAL to be terrorists but NOT all of those with this POTENTIAL end up being in fact terrorists.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amNote the activity of beliefs in babies;
I ASKED you BEFORE about BELIEFS and BABIES. You did NOT respond to that AT ALL. For obvious reasons, I might add.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 am
Babies Start 'Mind Reading' Earlier Than Thought
Even babies as young as a year-and-a-half can guess what other people are thinking, new research suggests.
"New" research?

It might be "new" research to some, but it is old news to me.

I have KNOWN this for years now. And this ability starts a LOT younger than written here, I might add.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amhttps://www.livescience.com/26691-babie ... liefs.html

Babies are born with 'intuitive physics' knowledge, says researcher
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 113051.htm
Just more unnecessary links to things of which ANSWERS are already KNOWN.

Also, with this ABILITY that human babies have always Truly possessed, which is far greater and far more powerful than has even begun to be realized in your links, ALL of you adult human beings would be advised to be far more careful in the way you think and behave. The ONLY reason the world is in the mess that it is in IS because of you adult human beings.

If YOU keep going the way that YOU ALL are now, then it will be not long as before you will see who will die out first, that is; the world or ALL of YOU, human beings. In other words keep BELIEVING, the way YOU are now, and just SEE what WILL happen to YOU ALL.
Last edited by Age on Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:59 pm
Age wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:57 pm [


If beliefs can also change, then why do you have BELIEFS, and maintain them?

Same as for underwear.
Great, a response with 'substance' to it, and to play with.

Now, what is the purpose of 'underwear'?

Besides stopping "shit" from dribbling out, and spreading.

In other words, WHY do you, human beings, actually wear underwear?

Between the ages of about 7 to 70 WHY, exactly, do you wear underwear?

Is there really ANY purpose?

Are underwear, in fact, just like BELIEFS?

Absolutely and totally unnecessary for, and to, some. While, supposedly, a survival necessity for others.

So, back to the main question again; WHY do you have BELIEFS, and/or underwear?

Do you have BELIEFS and wear underwear because you, seemingly, always have? And, it now seems impossible to live without either of them?

Beliefs and underwear both, could be seen, to have the exact same purpose in Life. That is; withhold the "shit" in, and mess one's self up.
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by A_Seagull »

Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:33 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:59 pm
Age wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:57 pm [


If beliefs can also change, then why do you have BELIEFS, and maintain them?

Same as for underwear.
Great, a response with 'substance' to it, and to play with.

Now, what is the purpose of 'underwear'?

Besides stopping "shit" from dribbling out, and spreading.

In other words, WHY do you, human beings, actually wear underwear?

Between the ages of about 7 to 70 WHY, exactly, do you wear underwear?

Is there really ANY purpose?

Are underwear, in fact, just like BELIEFS?

Absolutely and totally unnecessary for, and to, some. While, supposedly, a survival necessity for others.

So, back to the main question again; WHY do you have BELIEFS, and/or underwear?

Do you have BELIEFS and wear underwear because you, seemingly, always have? And, it now seems impossible to live without either of them?

Beliefs and underwear both, could be seen, to have the exact same purpose in Life. That is; withhold the "shit" in, and mess one's self up.
Beliefs are the basis for making decisions. Without beliefs about the world you could not make decisions.
Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:01 pm
Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:33 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:59 pm

Same as for underwear.
Great, a response with 'substance' to it, and to play with.

Now, what is the purpose of 'underwear'?

Besides stopping "shit" from dribbling out, and spreading.

In other words, WHY do you, human beings, actually wear underwear?

Between the ages of about 7 to 70 WHY, exactly, do you wear underwear?

Is there really ANY purpose?

Are underwear, in fact, just like BELIEFS?

Absolutely and totally unnecessary for, and to, some. While, supposedly, a survival necessity for others.

So, back to the main question again; WHY do you have BELIEFS, and/or underwear?

Do you have BELIEFS and wear underwear because you, seemingly, always have? And, it now seems impossible to live without either of them?

Beliefs and underwear both, could be seen, to have the exact same purpose in Life. That is; withhold the "shit" in, and mess one's self up.
Beliefs are the basis for making decisions. Without beliefs about the world you could not make decisions.
If you so BELIEVE.

What belief did you have about the world, that was the basis for your decision to write the above?

Was it the belief that makes you SO absolutely True, Right, and/or Correct here?

According to your statement above you appear as though you KNOW what belief is. So, What is 'belief, from your perspective'?

In other words, What definition are you giving to the word 'belief'?

You are expressing that human beings NEED beliefs, but you are NOT expressing What 'belief' actually IS.

If, as you say, human beings NEED belief in order to make decisions. does this also imply human beings could NOT live without beliefs?

From your perspective, could human beings and/or a human being LIVE without making decisions?

Are beliefs only inherent to the human animal?

Can ALL other animals live without beliefs, but human beings can NOT?

What evolved first human beings or beliefs?

If it was human beings, then how did they make decisions prior to having beliefs?
If it was beliefs, then why did that animal, which the human animal evolved from, evolve with beliefs? When did beliefs evolve relative to them?
If both human beings AND beliefs evolved at the exact same time, then WHEN was that, WHAT evidence do you have for this, and, HOW do you KNOW this?

If you answer ALL of these questions Truly OPENLY and HONESTLY, then you WILL see/understand the error of your ways.
If, however, you do NOT see/understand the error of your ways, then YOUR belief here is preventing you from being Truly OPEN and HONEST.
Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:01 pm
Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:33 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:59 pm

Same as for underwear.
Great, a response with 'substance' to it, and to play with.

Now, what is the purpose of 'underwear'?

Besides stopping "shit" from dribbling out, and spreading.

In other words, WHY do you, human beings, actually wear underwear?

Between the ages of about 7 to 70 WHY, exactly, do you wear underwear?

Is there really ANY purpose?

Are underwear, in fact, just like BELIEFS?

Absolutely and totally unnecessary for, and to, some. While, supposedly, a survival necessity for others.

So, back to the main question again; WHY do you have BELIEFS, and/or underwear?

Do you have BELIEFS and wear underwear because you, seemingly, always have? And, it now seems impossible to live without either of them?

Beliefs and underwear both, could be seen, to have the exact same purpose in Life. That is; withhold the "shit" in, and mess one's self up.
Beliefs are the basis for making decisions. Without beliefs about the world you could not make decisions.
I made a decision to write the following statement; This statement is false.

Now, WHAT belief about the world do you propose I supposedly had in order to be able to make that decision.

As far as I am aware I have absolutely NO belief about the world, which I based any thing on, for my decision to write that statement.

But I am OPEN to the fact, that I could be WRONG and in fact do have beliefs. I am also OPEN to the fact that you could show me the error of my ways. The way you write it appears, to me anyway, that you KNOW what the truth here is relation to beliefs. So, feel free to provide absolutely any thing at all that will SHOW me, and/or "others", the error of my ways. At least if "others" can see my errors and I can NOT, then they maybe able to help you in showing me, my errors.
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by A_Seagull »

Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:01 pm
Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:33 pm

Great, a response with 'substance' to it, and to play with.

Now, what is the purpose of 'underwear'?

Besides stopping "shit" from dribbling out, and spreading.

In other words, WHY do you, human beings, actually wear underwear?

Between the ages of about 7 to 70 WHY, exactly, do you wear underwear?

Is there really ANY purpose?

Are underwear, in fact, just like BELIEFS?

Absolutely and totally unnecessary for, and to, some. While, supposedly, a survival necessity for others.

So, back to the main question again; WHY do you have BELIEFS, and/or underwear?

Do you have BELIEFS and wear underwear because you, seemingly, always have? And, it now seems impossible to live without either of them?

Beliefs and underwear both, could be seen, to have the exact same purpose in Life. That is; withhold the "shit" in, and mess one's self up.
Beliefs are the basis for making decisions. Without beliefs about the world you could not make decisions.
If you so BELIEVE.

What belief did you have about the world, that was the basis for your decision to write the above?

Was it the belief that makes you SO absolutely True, Right, and/or Correct here?

According to your statement above you appear as though you KNOW what belief is. So, What is 'belief, from your perspective'?

In other words, What definition are you giving to the word 'belief'?

You are expressing that human beings NEED beliefs, but you are NOT expressing What 'belief' actually IS.

If, as you say, human beings NEED belief in order to make decisions. does this also imply human beings could NOT live without beliefs?

From your perspective, could human beings and/or a human being LIVE without making decisions?

Are beliefs only inherent to the human animal?

Can ALL other animals live without beliefs, but human beings can NOT?

What evolved first human beings or beliefs?

If it was human beings, then how did they make decisions prior to having beliefs?
If it was beliefs, then why did that animal, which the human animal evolved from, evolve with beliefs? When did beliefs evolve relative to them?
If both human beings AND beliefs evolved at the exact same time, then WHEN was that, WHAT evidence do you have for this, and, HOW do you KNOW this?

If you answer ALL of these questions Truly OPENLY and HONESTLY, then you WILL see/understand the error of your ways.
If, however, you do NOT see/understand the error of your ways, then YOUR belief here is preventing you from being Truly OPEN and HONEST.
Given the arrogance of your response...... I really cant be bothered.
Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

A_Seagull wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:24 am
Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:23 pm
A_Seagull wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:01 pm

Beliefs are the basis for making decisions. Without beliefs about the world you could not make decisions.
If you so BELIEVE.

What belief did you have about the world, that was the basis for your decision to write the above?

Was it the belief that makes you SO absolutely True, Right, and/or Correct here?

According to your statement above you appear as though you KNOW what belief is. So, What is 'belief, from your perspective'?

In other words, What definition are you giving to the word 'belief'?

You are expressing that human beings NEED beliefs, but you are NOT expressing What 'belief' actually IS.

If, as you say, human beings NEED belief in order to make decisions. does this also imply human beings could NOT live without beliefs?

From your perspective, could human beings and/or a human being LIVE without making decisions?

Are beliefs only inherent to the human animal?

Can ALL other animals live without beliefs, but human beings can NOT?

What evolved first human beings or beliefs?

If it was human beings, then how did they make decisions prior to having beliefs?
If it was beliefs, then why did that animal, which the human animal evolved from, evolve with beliefs? When did beliefs evolve relative to them?
If both human beings AND beliefs evolved at the exact same time, then WHEN was that, WHAT evidence do you have for this, and, HOW do you KNOW this?

If you answer ALL of these questions Truly OPENLY and HONESTLY, then you WILL see/understand the error of your ways.
If, however, you do NOT see/understand the error of your ways, then YOUR belief here is preventing you from being Truly OPEN and HONEST.
Given the arrogance of your response...... I really cant be bothered.
Just as suspected; LOOK AT the "other", and NOT at one's self.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:17 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amIt is the same with BELIEF.
ALL humans are born with the potential in the brain/mind to believe and have beliefs to facilitate survival.
It could be argued that ALL human beings are born with the potential within the body to see and have views to facilitate survival. And, I do NOT think you would find much, if any, disagreement. In fact this VIEW could be argued for much more strongly, than any argument for BELIEFS could be.
The OP defined 'belief' as
"A belief is an assumed truth."
http://changingminds.org/explanations/b ... belief.htm

which is similar to this;
Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief sees it as a mental representation of an attitude positively oriented towards the likelihood of something being true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
and this;
Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true.

To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time.
Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question (as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage).

Many of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk.

Forming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
and this;
It is often said that belief has an aim. This aim has been traditionally identified with truth and, since the late 1990s, with knowledge.
With this claim, philosophers designate a feature of belief according to which believing a proposition carries with it some sort of commitment or teleological directedness toward the truth (or knowledge) of that proposition.
This feature is taken to be constitutive of belief (that is, it is part of what a belief is that it is an attitude having this aim) and individuative of that type of mental state (that is, it is sufficient for distinguishing beliefs from other types of mental attitude like desire and imagining).

Philosophers appeal to belief’s aim mainly for explanatory purposes: the aim is supposed to explain a number of other features of belief, such as the impossibility of believing at will, the infelicity of asserting Moorean sentences (for example, “I believe that it is raining, but it is not raining”), and the normative force of evidential considerations in the processes of belief-formation and revision.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/beli-aim/
The above definitions of 'belief' is taken from notable philosophical sites which obviously is very relevant for this philosophical forum.

Your point, "human beings are born .. to have views ..." is very kindergarten and immature relative to a philosophical discussion.

If you do not agree with the above which I agree with but insist 'I [Age*] do not have any belief' then all your subsequent premises are merely sh!t.
* i.e. you not me.
Age
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 am
Age wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:17 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:20 amIt is the same with BELIEF.
ALL humans are born with the potential in the brain/mind to believe and have beliefs to facilitate survival.
It could be argued that ALL human beings are born with the potential within the body to see and have views to facilitate survival. And, I do NOT think you would find much, if any, disagreement. In fact this VIEW could be argued for much more strongly, than any argument for BELIEFS could be.
The OP defined 'belief' as
"A belief is an assumed truth."
http://changingminds.org/explanations/b ... belief.htm
This post IS titled What is Belief? (The question mark inviting answers/responses)

This post IS NOT titled Belief is ...

Either you are asking What is Belief? and therefore asking for how "others" INTERPRET 'Belief'. Or, you ALREADY KNOW What 'Belief' IS, and really do NOT care one iota what "other's" VIEWS are.

Now which one is it?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amwhich is similar to this;
Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty. Another way of defining belief sees it as a mental representation of an attitude positively oriented towards the likelihood of something being true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belief
and this;
Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true.

To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time.
Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question
WHERE do you come up with these terms like: In 'standard philosophical usage'? Do you have a link to this BOOK that is of and holds 'standard philosophical usage'? WHERE was "it" written, and, in WHAT era was "it" written? For HOW long will this "standard philosophical usage" last for?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 am(as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage).
This coming from the person who's first language is OBVIOUSLY NOT english and who readily also admits so.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amMany of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk.
The first two things are NOT even true, let alone having ANY truth within them, therefore, to BELIEVE them would be of the most ridiculous and foolish of things to do.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amForming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
If you even had the least bit slightest of clue What the Mind IS, then you would NOT even begin to have a such a STUPID thought like this.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amand this;
It is often said that belief has an aim. This aim has been traditionally identified with truth and, since the late 1990s, with knowledge.
With this claim, philosophers designate a feature of belief according to which believing a proposition carries with it some sort of commitment or teleological directedness toward the truth (or knowledge) of that proposition.
This feature is taken to be constitutive of belief (that is, it is part of what a belief is that it is an attitude having this aim) and individuative of that type of mental state (that is, it is sufficient for distinguishing beliefs from other types of mental attitude like desire and imagining).

Philosophers appeal to belief’s aim mainly for explanatory purposes: the aim is supposed to explain a number of other features of belief, such as the impossibility of believing at will, the infelicity of asserting Moorean sentences (for example, “I believe that it is raining, but it is not raining”), and the normative force of evidential considerations in the processes of belief-formation and revision.
https://www.iep.utm.edu/beli-aim/
The above definitions of 'belief' is taken from notable philosophical sites which obviously is very relevant for this philosophical forum.

Your point, "human beings are born .. to have views ..." is very kindergarten and immature relative to a philosophical discussion.

If you do not agree with the above which I agree with but insist 'I [Age*] do not have any belief' then all your subsequent premises are merely sh!t.
* i.e. you not me.
'I' am certainly not 'you'.

The OBJECTIVE Truth of what 'I' AM and what 'you' ARE clearly SHOWS this FACT.

The 'I' LOOKS and SEES from a Truly OBJECTIVE perspective, that is; from the Mind, which is always OPEN. From this perspective the Truth is ALREADY KNOWN.
The 'you' LOOKS and SEES from a truly SUBJECTIVE perspective, that is; from the brain, which is only OPEN, when it is NOT making assumptions AND NEITHER believing nor disbelieving, which in the case of 'you', veritas, appears to be NEVER.
Veritas Aequitas
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Age wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:45 pm
Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true.

To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time.
Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question
WHERE do you come up with these terms like: In 'standard philosophical usage'? Do you have a link to this BOOK that is of and holds 'standard philosophical usage'? WHERE was "it" written, and, in WHAT era was "it" written? For HOW long will this "standard philosophical usage" last for?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 am(as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage).
This coming from the person who's first language is OBVIOUSLY NOT english and who readily also admits so.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amMany of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk.
The first two things are NOT even true, let alone having ANY truth within them, therefore, to BELIEVE them would be of the most ridiculous and foolish of things to do.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amForming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
If you even had the least bit slightest of clue What the Mind IS, then you would NOT even begin to have a such a STUPID thought like this.
How can you be so stupid as to accuse me of the points raised above when it is clearly I have quoted that from;
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/

You should apologize for your mistake.

Note the full point I posted in quotes;
viewtopic.php?p=386768#p386768
Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true.

To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time.
Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question (as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage).

Many of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk.

Forming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
Age
Posts: 27841
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Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:48 am
Age wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:45 pm
Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true.

To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time.
Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question
WHERE do you come up with these terms like: In 'standard philosophical usage'? Do you have a link to this BOOK that is of and holds 'standard philosophical usage'? WHERE was "it" written, and, in WHAT era was "it" written? For HOW long will this "standard philosophical usage" last for?
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 am(as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage).
This coming from the person who's first language is OBVIOUSLY NOT english and who readily also admits so.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amMany of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk.
The first two things are NOT even true, let alone having ANY truth within them, therefore, to BELIEVE them would be of the most ridiculous and foolish of things to do.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:56 amForming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
If you even had the least bit slightest of clue What the Mind IS, then you would NOT even begin to have a such a STUPID thought like this.
How can you be so stupid as to accuse me of the points raised above when it is clearly I have quoted that from;
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/

You should apologize for your mistake.
What mistake?

It is completely laughable for you to even imagine that you think, let alone believe, that you KNOW what the 'Mind' is.

I really do NOT care what source you provide links to. Remember it is YOU, human beings, who are ARGUING with each other AND still TRYING TO work out WHAT things are and HOW they work.

For example; Ask ANY group of people What is the 'Mind'? and see how many actual unanimous responses you get?

And, I do NOT care if they are renowned, so called "scientists", "philosophers'", or any other people you ask.

YOU, human beings, still do NOT have a clue. YOU even admit that there are still some, so called, "mysteries of life". This is laughable because of the very source that prevents and stops YOU from solving those, so called "mysteries" IS the very source that you use when YOU BELIEVE that you already KNOW answers.

Your responses prove that you have NO clue have absolutely NO clue of What the 'Mind' actually IS. Therefore, I "should" NOT have to apologize for any, so called, "mistake".

It is 'you' who IS miss taking your life, and living, in the WRONG direction, and NOT 'I'.
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:48 amNote the full point I posted in quotes;
viewtopic.php?p=386768#p386768
Contemporary analytic philosophers of mind generally use the term “belief” to refer to the attitude we have, roughly, whenever we take something to be the case or regard it as true.

To believe something, in this sense, needn't involve actively reflecting on it: Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time.
Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question (as it sometimes does in ordinary English usage).

Many of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane: that we have heads, that it's the 21st century, that a coffee mug is on the desk.

Forming beliefs is thus one of the most basic and important features of the mind, and the concept of belief plays a crucial role in both philosophy of mind and epistemology.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/
I note the full point you posted in quotes.

What I NOTE is just how much disillusionment and confusion as SET in YOU already.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What is Belief?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Age wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 am YOU, human beings, still do NOT have a clue. YOU even admit that there are still some, so called, "mysteries of life". This is laughable because of the very source that prevents and stops YOU from solving those, so called "mysteries" IS the very source that you use when YOU BELIEVE that you already KNOW answers.
You are going crazy!
First you put words into my mouth when they are actually quoted from the SEP site.

Now in the above you are accusing me of believing in the "mysteries of life."
mystery = https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mystery
Where is your evidence for that?

You need to apologize for this mistake.
Age
Posts: 27841
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: What is Belief?

Post by Age »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:44 am
Age wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 am YOU, human beings, still do NOT have a clue. YOU even admit that there are still some, so called, "mysteries of life". This is laughable because of the very source that prevents and stops YOU from solving those, so called "mysteries" IS the very source that you use when YOU BELIEVE that you already KNOW answers.
You are going crazy!
First you put words into my mouth when they are actually quoted from the SEP site.

Now in the above you are accusing me of believing in the "mysteries of life."
mystery = https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mystery
Where is your evidence for that?

You need to apologize for this mistake.
BUT I have NOT accused you of BELIEVING in the "mysteries of life".

Maybe you may want to apologize the this mistake that you have obviously made here.

I have expressed that you still are NOT sure of some things in Life. This means that, to you, there are still some mysteries in Life. Are you TRYING TO suggest that, to you, there are NO mysteries in lifes, and therefore you KNOW ALL there is to KNOW? If so, then please reveal the ANSWERS to ALL these thing, that are mysteries, to the rest of you, human beings.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 15722
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: What is Belief?

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Age wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:29 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:44 am
Age wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:10 am YOU, human beings, still do NOT have a clue. YOU even admit that there are still some, so called, "mysteries of life". This is laughable because of the very source that prevents and stops YOU from solving those, so called "mysteries" IS the very source that you use when YOU BELIEVE that you already KNOW answers.
You are going crazy!
First you put words into my mouth when they are actually quoted from the SEP site.

Now in the above you are accusing me of believing in the "mysteries of life."
mystery = https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mystery
Where is your evidence for that?

You need to apologize for this mistake.
BUT I have NOT accused you of BELIEVING in the "mysteries of life".

Maybe you may want to apologize the this mistake that you have obviously made here.

I have expressed that you still are NOT sure of some things in Life. This means that, to you, there are still some mysteries in Life. Are you TRYING TO suggest that, to you, there are NO mysteries in lifes, and therefore you KNOW ALL there is to KNOW? If so, then please reveal the ANSWERS to ALL these thing, that are mysteries, to the rest of you, human beings.
Changing tunes.
Note the conventional meaning of 'mysteries' I linked above.

Whatever is not known as present are potential and possible empirical facts not 'mysteries' as defined above like the reality of a God, ghosts, and the likes.
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