~ The Meaning of Life ~

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Well, I am actually the one person here that has read & re-read Julian Jaynes, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicamerial Mind, over ten times.


I won't say that makes me the expert here but I will say that each time I re-read the work I gained more respect for his fact finding ability, his logic, and his overall scope of the work.

Remember, Jaynes was a teacher in one of the world's leading schools and he used passionate, unblinking logic in his approach to life and to his work.


His book, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of Bicamerial Mind remains more of a work of higher art to me than one of unflinching logic, though the logic contained within the work is superb.


As I may have stated before this work may be interpreted at the level of the reader - and not above.


Good luck to you.






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[Arising_uk]

And there you have it folks! The unphilosophical approach to reading. Confirmation bias that ignores anything that may challenge an already biased understanding. So let's just ignore that repeating the experiments that Jayne based his idea upon with more advanced scanners showed differently shall we, as heaven forbid that our pet metaphors be threatened. Gnu I name thee!

[Hobbes' Choice]

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Well, I am actually the one person here that has read & re-read Julian Jaynes, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicamerial Mind, over ten times.


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Hyperbole just makes you look even more silly.
Why not sum it up for the ladies and gentlemen, Billy Boy?

[Bill Wiltrack]

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I LOVE metaphors - For Example this one by the late Eva Cassidy who I just happen to be listening to now as I type with my headphones on - You can tell the sun in his jealous sky. Just beautiful - Fields of Gold.


As Julian Jaynes argues - Mankind advances his language and his understanding by the use & discovery of metaphors.





I HATE metaphors because actually ALL WORDS ARE METAPHORS and - at times I want to see underneath the surface, so to speak. It is the turntable of philosophy that I am trapped in pursuing during my life.


Turns out seeing beneath the surface is extremely hard - if not impossible to do and outwardly is completely unrewarding. Almost complete detachment is required. Which again...is impossible.


And the impossible hardly ever happens.





...thank you for allowing me to re-visit these former thoughts, and to once again listen to Eva Cassidy's Fields of Gold.





...give me just a few moments to drift into eternity...before you respond...





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[Arising_uk]

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I HATE metaphors because actually ALL WORDS ARE METAPHORS and - at times I want to see underneath the surface, so to speak. It is the turntable of philosophy that I am trapped in pursuing during my life.

This is because you confuse thinking with thoughting.

Turns out seeing beneath the surface is extremely hard - if not impossible to do and outwardly is completely unrewarding. Almost complete detachment is required. Which again...is impossible.

Clearly you've misunderstood Ouspensky. Your are also mistaken as the Buddha laid a clear path for you but unfortunately for you it takes effort and you just want a pill.

And the impossible hardly ever happens.

Actually the impossible never happens, you'd know this if you'd studied some Philosophy.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Something happened. I've stated this before in other ways.

After my life imploded at a very young age, I discovered the spiritual philosophy described in Ouspensky's works. IT WAS LIFE ALTERING for me.

As, again, I have stated before, I cannot describe the experience itself. Even if I could - it would not matter. The philosophy of Ouspensky must be experienced.

The discipline culminated in a deep understanding that happened to me while I was sitting in a college classroom.

For months later I was turned outside-in and once again I found myself adrift in outer circumstances.


I never could find a way back in.

I wound up chasing that dragon for the next 40 years. NEVER to be able to enter that spiritual/intellectual world again.

I've run out of strength...



I see now that we live & die in an almost completely silent solidarity. A solitary emptiness. Looking for a deeper meaning when there really isn't any.



...if there were a meaning in life for me; if there were a meaning to my life - it would be wordless. Words, ultimately fail us. But up until a certain point words are very fantastic and extremely helpful.





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[Dubious]

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Something happened. I've stated this before in other ways.

After my life imploded at a very young age, I discovered the spiritual philosophy described in Ouspensky's works. IT WAS LIFE ALTERING for me.

As, again, I have stated before, I cannot describe the experience itself. Even if I could - it would not matter. The philosophy of Ouspensky must be experienced.

The discipline culminated in a deep understanding that happened to me while I was sitting in a college classroom.

For months later I was turned outside-in and once again I found myself adrift in outer circumstances.


I never could find a way back in.

I wound up chasing that dragon for the next 40 years. NEVER to be able to enter that spiritual/intellectual world again.

I've run out of strength...



I see now that we live & die in an almost completely silent solidarity. A solitary emptiness. Looking for a deeper meaning when there really isn't any.



...if there were a meaning in life for me; if there were a meaning to my life - it would be wordless. Words, ultimately fail us. But up until a certain point words are very fantastic and extremely helpful.





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In my own experience, when younger you search more often for a groove to travel in. It's half serious and half fun. But when you get older you discover that to search for a deeper meaning is a complete waste of time. There was never a single human, not Buddha, not Christ, not Lao Tzu or anyone else who had the slightest insight into some imagined deep meaning. In fact searching for this non-existent trail of bread crumbs makes one blind to the one staring in your face. And what would that be? For me it defaults to the 'meaning of life' question. The most mediocre, ignorant bullshit question there ever was. Life, as humans have envisioned it since ancient times is far too panoramic to even contain such a meaning. Personally, I wouldn't appreciate being pigeon-holed into some single overriding emphasis or consider such as the 'revelation' I was looking for.

What you are searching for and seemingly feel defeated by for not having found would give me mental claustrophobia. If there were such a meaning, what would it amount to? I think, only this, that we are time bound entities along with everything else in Creation whose BEFORE & AFTER are equal to each other.

...it's also occurred to me that you could just be playing a game with these artificial woes to see how others would respond!

[Obvious Leo]

A close friend of mine died recently and I had a chance to speak to him only the day before he carked it. He reckoned the meaning of life question was a childishly simple one and he put it like this. You come into the world and you get to live out a span of years of unknown duration, after which you'll depart the scene again. The only thing you need to know is that you only get one crack at it so you may as well give it your best shot.

RIP, Jack. You gave it your best shot and many people were the better for it. What else is there and what else does there need to be?

[Arising_uk]

...it's also occurred to me that you could just be playing a game with these artificial woes to see how others would respond!

BINGO!!

Although it's a bit more serious than that as his deepest wish is to be an internut Gnu.

[Arising_uk]

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After my life imploded at a very young age, I discovered the spiritual philosophy described in Ouspensky's works. IT WAS LIFE ALTERING for me. ...

Obviously not.

He did not think it just a spiritual philosophy he thought it a practical methodology that could be applied through reason. This is why you have been chasing your hallucination down the years as you have not understood what Ouspensky proposed.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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Understanding is relative to all of us in each specific situation and time in our lives.


As I look back, the writings of Ouspensky did change me - forever.

I discovered and consciously practiced self-consciousness. That simple fact has changed everything.







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[Arising_uk]

And yet your posts show no evidence of the fourth way? In fact they show a distinct lack of it.

[Bill Wiltrack]

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The limitation of this media that we are using.

We are able to express ourselves literally here yet we are unable to see each other as we are in reality.

Understanding goes so much further than literal expression.


...one of the points of contention between you & I.

Reading a work of philosophy is 99.9% of the time a waste...if you are looking to increase your understanding; your being.


Philosophy: REAL philosophy needs to be experienced. Needs to be lived.

REAL philosophy is deeper, much deeper, than the intellect.




I know you and most members here are unable to process this but, none the less, that is the way it is.






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[Dubious]

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Philosophy: REAL philosophy needs to be experienced. Needs to be lived.

REAL philosophy is deeper, much deeper, than the intellect.

I know you and most members here are unable to process this but, none the less, that is the way it is.

[/size].

...then why confess that you're still spiritually desperate if Ouspensky had such a profound effect on your life? Shouldn't that ameliorate your uncertainties regarding life and existence? Having found some spiritual solace I think would negate looking into the abyss!

[Bill Wiltrack]

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It was as if you had gone to Disney World but you are not at Disney World now.


Yes, my memories and a certain connection that I cannot describe adequately WILL ALWAYS BE WITH ME. In every moment. It's my life.

My outer circumstances have led me away and, no matter in what road I travel down, I cannot find my way back to that wonderland.


Today, at times, I am full of uncertainty and a feeling of being totally lost. In a way, meaningless.







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