Plato’s Just State

[Wyman]

Big businesses won't hire philosophers because they can't do shit! Philosophy is outdated! Get it through your thick stupid heads!

Well, very clear, that's it.
May I ask you what are you doing on a philosophy forum?

Trying to make it relevant and teach these clueless people, it's a Sisyphus task, but I live in the delusion.

What can politicians, lawyers, and judges build?

[HexHammer]

What can politicians, lawyers, and judges build?

They have a specialized education, they excel in 1 area of expertise, but where does philosophers excel?

I've been in this forum for years and others since 2008, only seen cozy chat so far, nothing that has any relevance!

[Arising_uk]

No, you quote where he has actual relevance, it's the usual idiocy from you, when you also ask me to quote something useful from Kant, even tho every sane person should know he's outdated too.

The trouble with you pea-brain is you've created a straw man from your weeb trolling of philosophy forums and think it is the actual animal. You ask where the study of philosophy is relevant and when told where it is, i.e. in teaching people to think critically(something you show a complete inability to do) by examining the thoughts of some of the greatest thinkers in the subject and subjecting them to a critique based upon one's own thoughts and readings, you just repeat your tired old mantra of nonsense and babble without ever having actually read what has been said, hence you did not even bother to try and understand what I said about Logic as you have a closed-mind to any view that might challenge your pre-conceptions.

The questions raised by the Greeks are still pretty much the questions that some people still ask today, how should we live best, how should we govern best, what is a good life, how should we act morally, etc, etc, and when you study Philosophy now-a-days at least what you get from the subject is a understanding of whats been said so far which at least means that you don't keep re-inventing the wheel. That you think you are telling those who have studied Philosophy that it has no relevance today is laughable as those who have studied it know that its pretty much had no relevance, in Britain at least, for decades as those who fund the educational world had decided that economic relevance is the criteria for most subjects but, and pay attention here, things are changing as it is, for the first time, becoming a subject at the lower levels of education as they are discovering that it assists with the other subjects and teaches the students how to think and converse with others. Now what is being taught is not the higher-level academic approach of studying the philosophers but explorational philosophy that uses the themes expressed by them to explore what students think about their world today. Another reason for what appears to be a resurgence of interest is that the answers given by the other subjects appear not to satisfy the questions that people actually want an answer to and lo' and behold they appear to be the ones that the old philosophers have discussed, so personally I think it a good thing as without such an exploration people will turn back to religion and away from science in their search for answers as they don't actually understand what it is that science says because they have no framework with which to understand what science can and cannot say.

I'm tired of you trying to make me run a blatant fool's errand.

What the one where you actually respond to a question or two other than just yakking on about nonsense and babble? For example, you blithely say that Platos' Republic was the precursor for communism, as tho' you've said something true, but this just shows your prejudices as it's more like the precursor for fascism as much as tho' you don't like it communism has an egalitarian streak, something fairly antithetical to Plato's world(although I know I'm being too harsh here) which is more suitable for the totalitarian fascist.

Quote something useful or shut your stupid mouth!

Where do you get the idea that to study philosophy now-a-days is to be able to produce quotes? Still, just for you,

“The society we have described can never grow into a reality or see the light of day, and there will be no end to the troubles of states, or indeed, my dear Glaucon, of humanity itself, till philosophers become rulers in this world, or till those we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers, and political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands.”

[Arising_uk]

...
So let me ask my usual questons, so what can philosophers do?!?! ..NOT A FUCKING THING!!!!
Can they do a bypass operation? Do they suddenly know everything about economy? How to prioritize money for roads, schools, military ..etc?
Can they build a bridge, fly an airplane?

Big businesses won't hire philosophers because they can't do shit! Philosophy is outdated! Get it through your thick stupid heads!

Once again you repeat yourself whilst ignoring what has been said to you before. So once more, people who have studied Philosophy are hired see this, "Do they suddenly know everything about economy? How to prioritize money for roads, schools, military ..etc?", this is exactly what politicians do for a job over here and over here they study for a PPE, guess what one of the P's stands for?

You keep saying Philosophy is outdated but when has it ever been in date?

Take a look at the roles one can get if one has studied Philosophy,
http://www.philosophy.umd.edu/undergraduate/careers

[Arising_uk]

I've been in this forum for years and others since 2008, only seen cozy chat so far, nothing that has any relevance!

And yet you are still here?

You keep mistaking weeb philosophy forums for places where philosophers gather? In the main, they don't.

[HexHammer]

Wow! Your first post sure are filled with whining, a lot of nonsense and babble as usual ..no sign of intellect..

Take a look at the roles one can get if one has studied Philosophy,
http://www.philosophy.umd.edu/undergraduate/careers

Those cases clearly show that Philosohy is only compliments another education, you can't do much with philosophy by itself.

I win you lose!

[Arising_uk]

It's nothing to do with winning and losing numb nuts. Nor is it to do with whining as that is not what I did with my reply but you are too hard of thought to understand this as you are living in a world of virtual reality and mistake it for the real thing. I've told you at least three times now that those who've studied Philosophy know its merits and demerits and have acknowledged that the current world does not, in the main, employ philosophers qua philosopher, apart of course from those who have studied Logic who, if good enough, are employed in the major technical and scientific institutions and yet instead of taking this onboard and amending your arguments, as a philosophically trained person would, you just ignore what challenges your thoughts, indulge in insult and invective, and boringly repeat your ignorant prejudices. Show me this vaunted intellect of yours and try to answer my questions or at least some of my points instead of just endlessly spouting on about nonsense and babble of which your posts are an exemplar. So far all I've heard from you is tales of your faded past and how hard-done you were that your genius was not recognised, is this why you waste your time on the weeb chasing strawmen of your own making? A way to console yourself that you are actually doing something intellectual?

[HexHammer]

It's nothing to do with winning and losing numb nuts. Nor is it to do with whining as that is not what I did with my reply but you are too hard of thought to understand this as you are living in a world of virtual reality and mistake it for the real thing. I've told you at least three times now that those who've studied Philosophy know its merits and demerits and have acknowledged that the current world does not, in the main, employ philosophers qua philosopher, apart of course from those who have studied Logic who, if good enough, are employed in the major technical and scientific institutions and yet instead of taking this onboard and amending your arguments, as a philosophically trained person would, you just ignore what challenges your thoughts, indulge in insult and invective, and boringly repeat your ignorant prejudices. Show me this vaunted intellect of yours and try to answer my questions or at least some of my points instead of just endlessly spouting on about nonsense and babble of which your posts are an exemplar. So far all I've heard from you is tales of your faded past and how hard-done you were that your genius was not recognised, is this why you waste your time on the weeb chasing strawmen of your own making? A way to console yourself that you are actually doing something intellectual?

It would help your arguments greatly if you had some non philosopher confirm, that philosphy indeed is a great enhancer of main education. I've met too many that claim that their religion helped them get promoted and is the very best thing, ofcause they say so because of bias.
So is the nature of reality that people are biased!!! ..OM*G!!!!

[Arising_uk]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/pr ... ccess.html\

You are a prime example of the bias you talk about.

[Ginkgo]

I've been in this forum for years and others since 2008, only seen cozy chat so far, nothing that has any relevance!

And yet you are still here?

You keep mistaking weeb philosophy forums for places where philosophers gather? In the main, they don't.

Exactly. Philosophy is a discipline. We are not talking about GNU philosophy.

[Arising_uk]

That's Gnu as GNU is a useful invention.

[Ginkgo]

That's Gnu as GNU is a useful invention.

Thanks for the correction . I just love your interpretation. They are among us.

[HexHammer]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/pr ... ccess.html\

You are a prime example of the bias you talk about.

You have no fucking clue how to read you own "evidense"

"It's to do with the richness of the curriculum and the expectations and the high quality teaching experiences that the children have from the teachers and support staff," she said.

The philosophy in itself isn't fully credited, but the staff's quality teaching and intense support.

I remember back in the days a marine would teach children to play music and that class was in the slums and was the very worst class of all classes, but ended out doing on par with the top rated schools.
It's about motivation and dedication, not philosophy in itself.

You bring evidense against youself that you can't read very basic material, that you always misunderstand very basic information and doesn't know how to interpet it, and has the mentallity of a very small child, tho in math term u have very high intelligense indeed.

So again, you are a fucking retard, I'm tired of all your endless stupidities ..plz go elsewhere and leave this forum so u don't pest it with your hapless stupidity!

[GreatandWiseTrixie]

I have to say much old philosophy is out of date, but if society just listened to even the out of date, silly old philosophies the world would be a better place. The world is ran by incompetents, even thousands of years ago the superstitious greek philosophers would have done a better job.

[Arising_uk]

You have no fucking clue how to read you own "evidence"

But at least I can use a spell-checker.

I read pretty well thanks. You asked, "It would help your arguments greatly if you had some non philosopher confirm, that philosphy indeed is a great enhancer of main education.". I think this, "Philosophy lessons have played a key role in ensuring a London primary school recorded the best SATs test scores in England for the second year in a row, the school's headmistress claimed today.", meets all your criteria.

The philosophy in itself isn't fully credited, but the staff's quality teaching and intense support.

This is the difference between those who study philosophy and such as you. As you've just trolled through the article until you can find something to confirm your bias. Nowhere have I said Philosophy could be a cure-all panacea, nor have I said it would do anything more than enhance the learning of the other subjects and of course if the staff are not of quality nor the school supportive then it would make no difference to attainments. But you asked for a non-philosophers opinion and I think this, "Classes in which children are posed questions such as "what is success?" from the moment they join are partly responsible for the school's high results, according to headmistress Rekha Bhakoo.", is a positive opinion form a non-philosopher who, unlike you, knows what they are talking about.

I remember back in the days a marine would teach children to play music and that class was in the slums and was the very worst class of all classes, but ended out doing on par with the top rated schools.
It's about motivation and dedication, not philosophy in itself.

For sure music should be taught as well as, like philosophy, music is, at least over here, judged by your criteria of economic usefulness and as such has pretty much been dropped as a subject. You'll get no disagreement from me that children need dedicated teachers who can motive their pupils and full support from the school to achieve their goals but teaching children to think philosophically allows them to learn to think critically and this is a much needed, and much lacking, ability which is needed if you wish to produce useful citizens in a democracy, and such skills are useful in all subjects, hence I'll be taking the word of the headmistress over a numb nut like you who just resorts to insult and invective when faced with a fact that challenges his belief.

You bring evidense against youself that you can't read very basic material, that you always misunderstand very basic information and doesn't know how to interpet it, and has the mentallity of a very small child, tho in math term u have very high intelligense indeed.

My mathematical ability is very basic but my logic is reasonable and my reading is, thanks to a philosophical training, is at a high-level. Shame the same cannot be said for you.

So again, you are a fucking retard, I'm tired of all your endless stupidities ..plz go elsewhere and leave this forum so u don't pest it with your hapless stupidity!

*Yawn* What an imbecile you truly are.