Bill Maher Trump dinner

[accelafine]

Bill Maher talking about his dinner with Donald Trump. What does this really tell us? That 'politician' is a false front? An illusion. A Hollywood set. I found this fairly disturbing but unsurprising. People worship/demonise two-dimensional cardboard cutouts that don't really exist. Trump: the crafty cynic of epic proportions-- but who can blame him? People lap it up. Hitler was probably a charming dinner host too. I'm not comparing them as people, only as master politicians and manipulators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxlopbcfXpQ

[FlashDangerpants]

Maher very mildly criticises Trump a couple of times during a one on one session with him and then Trump sort of smiles in a way that Maher interprets as possible signs of self-awareness. That's basically as good as it gets here. To make Trump look like less of a shitstain, that's how far the bar has to be lowered?

All narcissists, when placed into a one on one situation, will try to flatter and charm the only other person in the room. Maher is idiot enough to be flattered and charmed even though he knows this.

[accelafine]

Maher has been bewitched

[BigMike]

Bill Maher talking about his dinner with Donald Trump. What does this really tell us? That 'politician' is a false front? An illusion. A Hollywood set. I found this fairly disturbing but unsurprising. People worship/demonise two-dimensional cardboard cutouts that don't really exist. Trump: the crafty cynic of epic proportions-- but who can blame him? People lap it up. Hitler was probably a charming dinner host too. I'm not comparing them as people, only as master politicians and manipulators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxlopbcfXpQ

Yeah, that clip of Bill Maher chatting about his dinner with Trump was surreal. The whole thing reeks of the exact normalization that got us into this mess in the first place.

Let’s not kid ourselves here—Trump isn’t just some “crafty cynic” or misunderstood showman. He’s the guy who knowingly tried to overturn a democratic election. Who incited a violent mob on January 6. Who separated families at the border and locked kids in cages. Who used the presidency to enrich himself while pushing conspiracy theories that got people killed during a pandemic. Who cozied up to dictators, gutted environmental protections, downplayed white supremacist violence, and made cruelty a central part of his political brand.

And now Bill Maher, someone who used to pride himself on “politically incorrect” truth-telling, sits down to dinner with this man and comes away thinking Trump is just more reasonable in private?

What’s actually disturbing here isn’t Trump’s two-faced nature. That’s a given. What’s disturbing is that Maher—who has always postured as someone above the partisan charade—is so easily charmed by the very person who represents a direct threat to democracy, civil rights, and basic human decency. The same guy who said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose voters. The same guy who downplayed a deadly virus while he knew how serious it was, costing hundreds of thousands of lives. The same guy who mocked disabled people, degraded women, demonized immigrants, and literally tried to extort Ukraine to smear a political rival.

What does it say about Maher that he’s OK with all that, as long as the wine flows and the talk is smooth?

You’re absolutely right to call this a “Hollywood set.” But we should be very clear: when people with a platform start shrugging off the danger and pretending it’s all theater, they’re not being edgy or iconoclastic. They’re being complicit.

Trump isn’t a joke. He’s not a “character.” He’s a cautionary tale in the flesh. And every time someone like Maher validates him as just another player in the game, the stakes get higher for all of us.

[henry quirk]

What does it say about Maher that he’s OK with all that, as long as the wine flows and the talk is smooth?

As you reckon it, all it can say -- all you can say -- is: Bill did, does, and will do what he inevitably must, yes?

enough: the road is waiting

[FlashDangerpants]

Oh no, Veggie's last hero turns out be a wokie.

[phyllo]

Yeah, that clip of Bill Maher chatting about his dinner with Trump was surreal.

Nothing new here.

It's part Machiavelli, part Nietzsche, part postmodernism, part 21st century etiquette.

Trump's first thought about dogs in the White House ... useful political tool. Ronald Reagan .. good hair is a very important 'tool'.

Trump's 60 insults ... that's just a normal way of interacting now. You don't insult people in person but at a distance (like social media or speeches), it's a good way to discredit people and try to get an advantage over people. It's common on this website.

[accelafine]

Bill Maher talking about his dinner with Donald Trump. What does this really tell us? That 'politician' is a false front? An illusion. A Hollywood set. I found this fairly disturbing but unsurprising. People worship/demonise two-dimensional cardboard cutouts that don't really exist. Trump: the crafty cynic of epic proportions-- but who can blame him? People lap it up. Hitler was probably a charming dinner host too. I'm not comparing them as people, only as master politicians and manipulators.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxlopbcfXpQ

Yeah, that clip of Bill Maher chatting about his dinner with Trump was surreal. The whole thing reeks of the exact normalization that got us into this mess in the first place.

Let’s not kid ourselves here—Trump isn’t just some “crafty cynic” or misunderstood showman. He’s the guy who knowingly tried to overturn a democratic election. Who incited a violent mob on January 6. Who separated families at the border and locked kids in cages. Who used the presidency to enrich himself while pushing conspiracy theories that got people killed during a pandemic. Who cozied up to dictators, gutted environmental protections, downplayed white supremacist violence, and made cruelty a central part of his political brand.

And now Bill Maher, someone who used to pride himself on “politically incorrect” truth-telling, sits down to dinner with this man and comes away thinking Trump is just more reasonable in private?

What’s actually disturbing here isn’t Trump’s two-faced nature. That’s a given. What’s disturbing is that Maher—who has always postured as someone above the partisan charade—is so easily charmed by the very person who represents a direct threat to democracy, civil rights, and basic human decency. The same guy who said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose voters. The same guy who downplayed a deadly virus while he knew how serious it was, costing hundreds of thousands of lives. The same guy who mocked disabled people, degraded women, demonized immigrants, and literally tried to extort Ukraine to smear a political rival.

What does it say about Maher that he’s OK with all that, as long as the wine flows and the talk is smooth?

You’re absolutely right to call this a “Hollywood set.” But we should be very clear: when people with a platform start shrugging off the danger and pretending it’s all theater, they’re not being edgy or iconoclastic. They’re being complicit.

Trump isn’t a joke. He’s not a “character.” He’s a cautionary tale in the flesh. And every time someone like Maher validates him as just another player in the game, the stakes get higher for all of us.

The 'kids in cages' thing was ridiculous hyperbole. Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it, or in the case of Americans, tell it once. It was Obama who had the 'cages' built for the purpose of temporarily holding migrant children. People have been sending very small children over the border ALONE, putting them in terrible danger and often with no one ever knowing what happens to them. There are many videos of these children. That's a direct result of Biden's slack border policies.
My point wasnt that Trump is evil impersonified, I was commenting on the nature of this entity we call 'politicians'. Leaders in general are notoriously inadequate human beings behind the facade. 'Inadequate' doesn't mean 'decent and normal'. Trump clearly has the ability to charm and manipulate people. All leaders do, or they wouldn't be leaders.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Hitler was probably a charming dinner host too. I'm not comparing them as people, only as master politicians and manipulators.

Hitler was said to be entertaining, cordial and talkative at dinner. There is a book called Hitler’s Table Talk. Since I could never make it through Mein Kampf I never tried reading it.

To succeed in politics today, and definitely in American politics, the entire game is master political skills, image management and manipulation. It is a science. A game of appearances, analysis of impact, strategy, and deception on various levels.

Democracy and demagogics go well together.

[Alexis Jacobi]

The 'kids in cages' thing was ridiculous hyperbole. Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it, or in the case of Americans, tell it once. It was Obama who had the 'cages' built for the purpose of temporarily holding migrant children. People have been sending very small children over the border ALONE, putting them in terrible danger and often with no one ever knowing what happens to them. There are many videos of these children. That's a direct result of Biden's slack border policies.

My point wasn’t that Trump is evil (…)

But Mike’s point is that evil, with many preliminary causes, has manifest. He accuses Donald Trump as if he is responsible as a man with agency, but he (Mike) must know better.

Trump is a water molecule moving in a current determined by surrounding forces. A rolling rock, etc. etc.

Mike, for the sake of the education of your readership I wonder if you might expand on determinism in contemporary politics?

[phyllo]

You guys are determined to make this another determinism thread?

Let him make some posts without loading him up with baggage from some other topic. Please.

[BigMike]

The 'kids in cages' thing was ridiculous hyperbole. Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it, or in the case of Americans, tell it once. It was Obama who had the 'cages' built for the purpose of temporarily holding migrant children. People have been sending very small children over the border ALONE, putting them in terrible danger and often with no one ever knowing what happens to them. There are many videos of these children. That's a direct result of Biden's slack border policies.

My point wasn’t that Trump is evil (…)

But Mike’s point is that evil, with many preliminary causes, has manifest. He accuses Donald Trump as if he is responsible as a man with agency, but he (Mike) must know better.

Trump is a water molecule moving in a current determined by surrounding forces. A rolling rock, etc. etc.

Mike, for the sake of the education of your readership I wonder if you might expand on determinism in contemporary politics?

Certainly, Alexis.

You're absolutely right to press the issue—because yes, I do hold Donald Trump responsible in the sense that his actions had consequences. But no, I do not believe he had ultimate agency over those actions. Not in the way most people imagine when they throw around words like “blame” or “evil.” I see Trump, like every human being, as the outcome of a long causal chain—shaped by genetics, upbringing, media influence, social context, psychological conditioning, and reinforcement from the systems around him.

So when I point to what Trump has done—to democracy, to decency, to science, to trust—I’m not saying he’s a supervillain making free choices in a moral vacuum. I’m saying he’s the result of millions of determinants: Fox News, economic insecurity, racism, narcissistic personality traits, an audience that rewards cruelty, and yes, a political system that has no firewall against the theater of authoritarian charisma.

And that’s why I find the normalization of Trump by figures like Bill Maher so dangerous. It’s not that Trump could have “chosen differently” and become a better man—it’s that the conditions surrounding him rewarded what we saw, and continue to reward it. That’s why determinism matters in contemporary politics: if we continue treating moral monsters as lone agents who simply “go bad,” we miss the deeper forces shaping their rise—and the even deeper changes required to stop the next one.

Trump isn't the disease. He’s a symptom—a byproduct of an ecosystem that cultivates spectacle, rewards narcissism, ignores suffering, and rationalizes corruption. If we want to avoid repeating this nightmare, we have to stop looking at political collapse as the result of a few “bad apples,” and start interrogating the orchard.

So yes, let’s hold individuals accountable in practical terms. But let’s not indulge the fantasy that they acted from some mystical reservoir of “free will.” Let’s look at the causes. Let’s study the patterns. And let’s fix the systems that keep producing demagogues we later pretend to be shocked by.

[Alexis Jacobi]

Of course you could be wrong about different things, many things. But no matter: your opinions were formed by forces, events and powers over which you had and have no control.

[BigMike]

Of course you could be wrong about different things, many things. But no matter: your opinions were formed by forces, events and powers over which you had and have no control.

Of course I could be wrong. So name one thing I am wrong about—and make the case for why it’s wrong. Otherwise, you’re just restating determinism while dodging its implications.

[Alexis Jacobi]

One thing: Recently — it was a surprising statement to me — Glen Greenwald, generally pretty objective and independent, said that one of the only major MSM news providers with objective reporting was Fox News.

This contradicts or challenges your (prejudiced?) statement:

I’m saying he’s the result of millions of determinants: Fox News […]

My impression was that you assume a negative/destructive influence (?)