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Saying the rock doesn't care is a truth value. The rock cannot be seperated from experience. Even saying "truth is an extraneous value" is subject to truth value.Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:36 am truth is an extraneous value that only has worth in specific human constructions
the rock doesn't care if it is marble
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no, the rock has no experienceEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:38 pmSaying the rock doesn't care is a truth value. The rock cannot be seperated from experience. Even saying "truth is an extraneous value" is subject to truth value.Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:36 am truth is an extraneous value that only has worth in specific human constructions
the rock doesn't care if it is marble
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The rock is inseperable from experience, to say otherwise there would be no experience of a rock hence you could not say whether or not the rock exists as one only knows experience.Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 2:16 pmno, the rock has no experienceEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:38 pmSaying the rock doesn't care is a truth value. The rock cannot be seperated from experience. Even saying "truth is an extraneous value" is subject to truth value.Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 12:36 am truth is an extraneous value that only has worth in specific human constructions
the rock doesn't care if it is marble
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If truth is purely subjective than there can be no agreed upon truths as one subjective state is different from another.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 5:12 am Truth is the experience of the body and the processes of the mind. Truth is subjective, read personal, change the constitution of the body and/or the mind, and you change the body/mind experience, in doing so you change the organism's apparent reality. Truth experience is always true to the biology of the conscious subject. If the subject biology is impaired, its truth experiences will be true to that impairment. Truth is the valued experience of the body/mind.
not quiteEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:18 pmThe rock is inseperable from experience, to say otherwise there would be no experience of a rock hence you could not say whether or not the rock exists as one only knows experience.
You claim the rock has no experience but this rock exists solely as an object of experience that is integrated with the observer as the experience itself. Without the rock you have no experience and without you the experience that is the rock ceases. Both subject and object are interdependent.
We only know internal and external experiences. To say something exists outside of experience is an experience and the statement becomes a paradox.
Truth is what the body and mind tell you is your experience. The commonality of the species dictates that a healthy human specimen with the same sensory equipment has the same experience. Change the state of the body and you change the experience and thus the truth. Truth and experience are the same thing. The experience is always true to the state of the biology experiencing it, and not necessarily in agreement with the reality of the physical world. Biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Truth value is indeed an occurrence, the occurrence is an experience. For greater insurance of what the common truth statement of society is, we are reminded of the statement, "Truth to the individual is experience, to the collective it is agreement. Assuming the collective is more likely to be the example of the health of the species.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:19 pmIf truth is purely subjective, then there can be no agreed upon truths as one subjective state is different from another.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 5:12 am Truth is the experience of the body and the processes of the mind. Truth is subjective, read personal, change the constitution of the body and/or the mind, and you change the body/mind experience, in doing so you change the organism's apparent reality. Truth experience is always true to the biology of the conscious subject. If the subject biology is impaired, its truth experiences will be true to that impairment. Truth is the valued experience of the body/mind.
Last time I checked a rock is conceptual experience, even the senses are reduced to conceptualism by though and memory as what is currently sensed is always the past.Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:59 amnot quiteEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:18 pmThe rock is inseperable from experience, to say otherwise there would be no experience of a rock hence you could not say whether or not the rock exists as one only knows experience.
You claim the rock has no experience but this rock exists solely as an object of experience that is integrated with the observer as the experience itself. Without the rock you have no experience and without you the experience that is the rock ceases. Both subject and object are interdependent.
We only know internal and external experiences. To say something exists outside of experience is an experience and the statement becomes a paradox.
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf- ... el_Bat.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaZbCctlll4 (starting about 4:35 about rocks but watch the whole thing for a good lecture on Nagel's work)
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Experience is the act of change as we only know transitions, what is experienced is inseperable from the relation of bodies.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:05 pmTruth is what the body and mind tell you is your experience. The commonality of the species dictates that a healthy human specimen with the same sensory equipment has the same experience. Change the state of the body and you change the experience and thus the truth. Truth and experience are the same thing. The experience is always true to the state of the biology experiencing it, and not necessarily in agreement with the reality of the physical world. Biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Truth value is indeed an occurrence, the occurrence is an experience. For greater insurance of what the common truth statement of society is, we are reminded of the statement, "Truth to the individual is experience, to the collective it is agreement. Assuming the collective is more likely to be the example of the health of the species.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:19 pmIf truth is purely subjective, then there can be no agreed upon truths as one subjective state is different from another.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 02, 2025 5:12 am Truth is the experience of the body and the processes of the mind. Truth is subjective, read personal, change the constitution of the body and/or the mind, and you change the body/mind experience, in doing so you change the organism's apparent reality. Truth experience is always true to the biology of the conscious subject. If the subject biology is impaired, its truth experiences will be true to that impairment. Truth is the valued experience of the body/mind.
the point is that you have no idea what it is like to be a rock (it is beyond human comprehension)Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 11:40 pmLast time I checked a rock is conceptual experience, even the senses are reduced to conceptualism by though and memory as what is currently sensed is always the past.Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:59 amnot quiteEodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 04, 2025 10:18 pm
The rock is inseperable from experience, to say otherwise there would be no experience of a rock hence you could not say whether or not the rock exists as one only knows experience.
You claim the rock has no experience but this rock exists solely as an object of experience that is integrated with the observer as the experience itself. Without the rock you have no experience and without you the experience that is the rock ceases. Both subject and object are interdependent.
We only know internal and external experiences. To say something exists outside of experience is an experience and the statement becomes a paradox.
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf- ... el_Bat.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaZbCctlll4 (starting about 4:35 about rocks but watch the whole thing for a good lecture on Nagel's work)
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You got it! Experience is how energy, frequency and vibrations alter the state of our biology, giving experience as a biological readout of your apparent reality.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 11:42 pmExperience is the act of change as we only know transitions, what is experienced is inseparable from the relation of bodies.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:05 pmTruth is what the body and mind tell you is your experience. The commonality of the species dictates that a healthy human specimen with the same sensory equipment has the same experience. Change the state of the body and you change the experience and thus the truth. Truth and experience are the same thing. The experience is always true to the state of the biology experiencing it, and not necessarily in agreement with the reality of the physical world. Biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Truth value is indeed an occurrence, the occurrence is an experience. For greater insurance of what the common truth statement of society is, we are reminded of the statement, "Truth to the individual is experience, to the collective it is agreement. Assuming the collective is more likely to be the example of the health of the species.
If it is impossible to know what it is to be a rock than how can you speak for whether or not a rock has experience or not?Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 1:13 amthe point is that you have no idea what it is like to be a rock (it is beyond human comprehension)Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 11:40 pmLast time I checked a rock is conceptual experience, even the senses are reduced to conceptualism by though and memory as what is currently sensed is always the past.Impenitent wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 12:59 am
not quite
https://www.sas.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf- ... el_Bat.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaZbCctlll4 (starting about 4:35 about rocks but watch the whole thing for a good lecture on Nagel's work)
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Biology is a byproduct of experience as it is a classification made by experience. Biology does not exist outside of experience. To say that it does puts it in the realm of experience and a paradox ensues.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 12, 2025 1:41 amYou got it! Experience is how energy, frequency and vibrations alter the state of our biology, giving experience as a biological readout of your apparent reality.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 11, 2025 11:42 pmExperience is the act of change as we only know transitions, what is experienced is inseparable from the relation of bodies.popeye1945 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 05, 2025 10:05 pm
Truth is what the body and mind tell you is your experience. The commonality of the species dictates that a healthy human specimen with the same sensory equipment has the same experience. Change the state of the body and you change the experience and thus the truth. Truth and experience are the same thing. The experience is always true to the state of the biology experiencing it, and not necessarily in agreement with the reality of the physical world. Biology is the measure and the meaning of all things. Truth value is indeed an occurrence, the occurrence is an experience. For greater insurance of what the common truth statement of society is, we are reminded of the statement, "Truth to the individual is experience, to the collective it is agreement. Assuming the collective is more likely to be the example of the health of the species.