I praise the call to a utopia...
But Kropotkin, what an odd praise, why should we even want
a utopia? A utopia is by definition, not achievable, not reachable...
and hence their need..... think of our modern world today....
in our scramble for the trinkets of existence, we no longer
have any goal to reach.... think about it, we seek out wealth,
not for what it can do, but for wealth itself.... there is no
other goal in seeking out wealth other than seeking out wealth...
and the same goes for the other trinkets of existence,
fame, power, titles, material possessions.... there is no
other goal outside of these endless pursuits of fame or wealth.....
look at Buffet, he is still working at age 93 trying to increase his
wealth.... that is the only goal or agenda he is reaching for....
What is the point of having more money than god, if there is not
an end to this pursuit?
In seeking out a utopia, we are actively seeking out a goal, an end
toward which we conclude our actions..... but Kropotkin, there is
no end to or conclusion to the actions of being human? perhaps,
but we should engage in life as if there were an end, a conclusion,
a goal to existence.... the creation of a utopia is one such possibility
to a conclusion to existence.... and the fact we will never reach it,
is the point...... we have at least a goal or a conclusion that we are
reaching for.....it is something better than we have going on today.....
Kropotkin
In praise of Utopia's
-
Peter Kropotkin
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:11 am
Re: In praise of Utopia's
so, part of this utopia, is also this question of autonomy in
the modern age... can we be autonomous in our modern age?
I hold that there are two distinct and different aspects to
modernity.... one is the inner aspect and the other is the
external aspect.... if we are autonomous in our beliefs
and thinking, then we are separate from, apart from the
external aspect... in which we engage in our public life...
this understanding of a private life and a public life,
has been discussed since the beginning of our modern age,
say, after the French Revolution.... roughly, 1800.... to today,
or about 224 years... it especially became a common discussion
after 1914, the First World War..... Can we be autonomous beings
if we can be drafted or force to go to war for our state/nation?
if we are paying taxes or serving on juries, are we being autonomous?
Is living our modern lives preventing us from living autonomous lives?
Well, that depends..... if we accept the indoctrinations of our childhood,
indoctrinations from schooling, the media, the church, the state, then
yes, we are not living autonomous lives..... if we accept lock, stock and
barrel, the precepts and values of our state/society, without any
evaluation, to their worth, to their value,
then yes, we don't have any sort of autonomy to speak of......
but as I said earlier, I hold that we can have a two track system of
autonomy... we can hold to values and beliefs that we have evaluated
and held to the fire, so to speak, and we operate on those evaluated
beliefs and values.... then we are being autonomous...
being autonomous is about the accepted values within us, the outer
world of business and government can force us to do and be something
that we don't believe in, but if we hold to our values and principles
even to the point of jail, then we are being autonomous...
At work, I commit hearsay every single day, for I don't automatically
strive for profits... my goal is customer service.... I don't care
if the company makes money or not.... and that is one way for
autonomy to work... holding onto values despite corporate or
national values.... I work for human values, not necessarily
American values...and I act upon those human values....
I give refunds and treat people like people just because
they are people, not because they are customers....
or because they may or may not be American's....
but I use more universal values than companies or nations use....
and that comes from my rejection of my indoctrinations that make
Americans first, and those from another country second, at best.....
thus, for me, immigrants are treated with the same respect and dignity
that American's get...
I strive to see the human being, not black beings or white beings or
republican beings or democratic beings, but human beings...
and I will treat you as such up to the point where you/the customer
gives me shit, then all bets are off.... give me an attitude and
I will respond... which isn't about being white or black or Mexican
or MAGA, it is about common decency and I expect, in fact, I
demand decency toward myself and others.... fail to give that,
and I will respond.... my goal here is not to create a utopia,
but to create an opportunity to act with decency and respect...
in my Checkout stands, that will get you rewarded with being
treated like a human being, with decency and respect....
and that is my being autonomous within a corporate world....
where they tell me what I can wear, what I can say, what I
can do and even where I can stand...... with the goal
being civil to the gaining of repeat customers, it is
about making profits, not about actually treating customers with
any sort of dignity or respect... where profits drive the civility of
the corporate world, not actual decency or respect....
and the goal is profits, by using the fake act of giving
respect and decency to customers.... with no actual belief
in showing respect or decency to customers....
I hold to my autonomous values.. despite the chaining of my body
to the self checkout.... I am not actually allowed to move away from
self checkout due to the possibility of theft, my presence deters
theft, thus I am ''preventing theft'', holding to profits being the main
driving of how corporate uses me....
but is there a goal or a final destination for corporate America?
Not that I can see..... just continue to make profits until the sun
explodes and then it won't matter anymore anyway......
thus we see that there needs to be some sort of goal or
purpose to work, life and even existence..... and One, one
possibility is the engagement with creating a utopia....
what would a working utopia look like?
the Communist believed that creating a ''final worker state'',
was that utopia.... where everyone is treated equally and thus
treated with Justice, which is the treatment of everyone equally....
and that certainly doesn't happen in the corporate world.....
there is clearly unequal treatment between the workers, who
actually do the job, and management who simply watches the workers
do the job.... and who gets paid more, gets better treatment,
has better pensions and retirement plans? It ain't the workers....
and until the workers and management have justice, which is
the equal treatment, there is no equality within corporate
America.... thus, there is no such thing as Justice within our
economic system as long as there is unequal treatment of
workers compared to management....
but the creation of that utopia is a long, long ways away.... and we
can seek out other examples of being autonomous within a system,
be it corporate or within a state or society...... becoming autonomous
is one path to the creation of a utopia.....
what is another?
Kropotkin
the modern age... can we be autonomous in our modern age?
I hold that there are two distinct and different aspects to
modernity.... one is the inner aspect and the other is the
external aspect.... if we are autonomous in our beliefs
and thinking, then we are separate from, apart from the
external aspect... in which we engage in our public life...
this understanding of a private life and a public life,
has been discussed since the beginning of our modern age,
say, after the French Revolution.... roughly, 1800.... to today,
or about 224 years... it especially became a common discussion
after 1914, the First World War..... Can we be autonomous beings
if we can be drafted or force to go to war for our state/nation?
if we are paying taxes or serving on juries, are we being autonomous?
Is living our modern lives preventing us from living autonomous lives?
Well, that depends..... if we accept the indoctrinations of our childhood,
indoctrinations from schooling, the media, the church, the state, then
yes, we are not living autonomous lives..... if we accept lock, stock and
barrel, the precepts and values of our state/society, without any
evaluation, to their worth, to their value,
then yes, we don't have any sort of autonomy to speak of......
but as I said earlier, I hold that we can have a two track system of
autonomy... we can hold to values and beliefs that we have evaluated
and held to the fire, so to speak, and we operate on those evaluated
beliefs and values.... then we are being autonomous...
being autonomous is about the accepted values within us, the outer
world of business and government can force us to do and be something
that we don't believe in, but if we hold to our values and principles
even to the point of jail, then we are being autonomous...
At work, I commit hearsay every single day, for I don't automatically
strive for profits... my goal is customer service.... I don't care
if the company makes money or not.... and that is one way for
autonomy to work... holding onto values despite corporate or
national values.... I work for human values, not necessarily
American values...and I act upon those human values....
I give refunds and treat people like people just because
they are people, not because they are customers....
or because they may or may not be American's....
but I use more universal values than companies or nations use....
and that comes from my rejection of my indoctrinations that make
Americans first, and those from another country second, at best.....
thus, for me, immigrants are treated with the same respect and dignity
that American's get...
I strive to see the human being, not black beings or white beings or
republican beings or democratic beings, but human beings...
and I will treat you as such up to the point where you/the customer
gives me shit, then all bets are off.... give me an attitude and
I will respond... which isn't about being white or black or Mexican
or MAGA, it is about common decency and I expect, in fact, I
demand decency toward myself and others.... fail to give that,
and I will respond.... my goal here is not to create a utopia,
but to create an opportunity to act with decency and respect...
in my Checkout stands, that will get you rewarded with being
treated like a human being, with decency and respect....
and that is my being autonomous within a corporate world....
where they tell me what I can wear, what I can say, what I
can do and even where I can stand...... with the goal
being civil to the gaining of repeat customers, it is
about making profits, not about actually treating customers with
any sort of dignity or respect... where profits drive the civility of
the corporate world, not actual decency or respect....
and the goal is profits, by using the fake act of giving
respect and decency to customers.... with no actual belief
in showing respect or decency to customers....
I hold to my autonomous values.. despite the chaining of my body
to the self checkout.... I am not actually allowed to move away from
self checkout due to the possibility of theft, my presence deters
theft, thus I am ''preventing theft'', holding to profits being the main
driving of how corporate uses me....
but is there a goal or a final destination for corporate America?
Not that I can see..... just continue to make profits until the sun
explodes and then it won't matter anymore anyway......
thus we see that there needs to be some sort of goal or
purpose to work, life and even existence..... and One, one
possibility is the engagement with creating a utopia....
what would a working utopia look like?
the Communist believed that creating a ''final worker state'',
was that utopia.... where everyone is treated equally and thus
treated with Justice, which is the treatment of everyone equally....
and that certainly doesn't happen in the corporate world.....
there is clearly unequal treatment between the workers, who
actually do the job, and management who simply watches the workers
do the job.... and who gets paid more, gets better treatment,
has better pensions and retirement plans? It ain't the workers....
and until the workers and management have justice, which is
the equal treatment, there is no equality within corporate
America.... thus, there is no such thing as Justice within our
economic system as long as there is unequal treatment of
workers compared to management....
but the creation of that utopia is a long, long ways away.... and we
can seek out other examples of being autonomous within a system,
be it corporate or within a state or society...... becoming autonomous
is one path to the creation of a utopia.....
what is another?
Kropotkin