bondage and liberation....

[Peter Kropotkin]

one of the great themes of the east, is that of seeking liberation....
but virtually all religions speak of liberation or salvation of the soul...
we have the messiness of life... of our animal nature which seeks out
the animal in us... we are held in bondage by our own nature...
that which seeks out the trinkets of existence is part of our bondage...
but bondage is also in this tying our existence to the wants and desires
of being human.....we are held in bondage by our physical pursuits,
of seeking out wealth and power and fame and material possessions
and titles... but we are also held in bondage by our mental and
emotional states...we are not free if we are consumed by anger or
hate or lust.. we are in bondage to these emotional states if they
are all we hold to be true.....

you are in bondage to your ideas if you cannot change or adapt them
to the new realities... you are in bondage if all you can see is
hate and anger and lust... the entire point of Buddhism is to seek
out liberation from this bondage that holds us hostage in life.....

or said another way: Acquisitions is bondage...
that which prevents us from seeking out who we really are is
bondage... I am held in bondage by my constant acquisition of
books...I have over 5000 books in my own library... (I got a new one yesterday)

it is, in one sense, an addiction... I cannot stop myself from buying books..
as far as addictions go, this one is a fairly good one to have...
but it holds me down, holds me back... I am not free... or said differently,
all my books are my bondage... and to be free.. I must free myself
of my addiction to books... to be liberated, I must go cold turkey
from books... I will not achieve salvation because I am addicted to books...
my books are keeping me from true liberation, my books are keeping me
in bondage... perhaps, perhaps one day I may be strong enough to
walk away from, to be liberated from my books, but not today...

so, what is holding you in bondage? and how can you become liberated
from that bondage? How do you achieve salvation?

salvation is the freeing of someone from their acquisitions, their
bondage to something mental, physical or emotional...

to think about it one way... some around here hold to god... and until
they escape that addiction, they are in bondage...
to achieve liberation requires one to walk away from that which
holds them hostage... for me it is books, and for others, it is god
and for others it is money or fame or titles or material possessions....

what ties you to the earth? that is your bondage...
and how are you going to liberate yourself from that bondage?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

and one may ask, what is the point?

my own fate and the fate of others is to suffer.. to get disease
and grow old and finally to die...the point of existence is to suffer...

as I have pointed out, that is but one, one viewpoint and there are
many other viewpoints that are possible....

one might think, the world is evil and corrupt and the strong take
the weak...and all of that may be true...
and yet, I still advocate the message of peace and love and hope...
even if the rest of the world doesn't...

if the world's actions are going to destroy the society, the state,
our very civilization, and what are my own personal choices?

to fight for the state/society/civilization... by doing good within
that state/society/civilization...to keep the society functioning,
to keep the state functioning, I help maintain it by doing my
taxes and holding to moral/ethical actions within that state...
even if, not another single soul participates in that..
the key to human survival is through the state/society/civilization...
we have survive as human beings because of the state/society/civilization,
not despite it, but because of it...human beings are social creatures,
we depend on others to survive... we cannot survive without others...
that is a fact, not opinion....

and as a fact, we must keep the state and society and the civilization
continuing, for that is the best course of action to keep individual
human beings alive....an evil state/society must be changed, but
it needs to keep going... contradiction, not really....
everything I do to keep the state/society alive, is to help
seek out the best state/society that we can have.....I am a strong
advocate to change our state/society, but I also hold that we must
have a state/society to stay alive... I don't have to keep the
state/society that is evil, but I can try to change that to being a
worthwhile state/society... but the overall state/society must be
kept going... and then change it as we can... I believe in the state
as a theory, but we must keep changing it to become a force for
good.. so we change the individual aspects of the state,
for example, remove the death penalty as being evil, but
still retain the state/society as it helps us maintain our very
existence... chance what you can, accept what you must...

so, we may hate the overall actions of the state/society,
but we try to change the individual actions of that state/society...
the state itself, we must keep as it keeps us human beings alive,
but we can change aspects of that state...

so, the overall idea of the state/society, we hold to, but
we try to change the individual aspects of the state to
make it better or more accountable or more responsible....
but we don't try to destroy the state/society, we try to change it....

and our individual attempts to change the world is seeking to turn
the world into something positive, something of value....into turning
the world into a force for good, not evil....
turning the state/society/civilization into a force for good, and not
evil.... that is the goal, the point of... to make our state/society/civilization
a positive force for good and not evil... not to destroy the government, but
to make it better....

Kropotkin

[LuckyR]

one of the great themes of the east, is that of seeking liberation....
but virtually all religions speak of liberation or salvation of the soul...
we have the messiness of life... of our animal nature which seeks out
the animal in us... we are held in bondage by our own nature...
that which seeks out the trinkets of existence is part of our bondage...
but bondage is also in this tying our existence to the wants and desires
of being human.....we are held in bondage by our physical pursuits,
of seeking out wealth and power and fame and material possessions
and titles... but we are also held in bondage by our mental and
emotional states...we are not free if we are consumed by anger or
hate or lust.. we are in bondage to these emotional states if they
are all we hold to be true.....

you are in bondage to your ideas if you cannot change or adapt them
to the new realities... you are in bondage if all you can see is
hate and anger and lust... the entire point of Buddhism is to seek
out liberation from this bondage that holds us hostage in life.....

or said another way: Acquisitions is bondage...
that which prevents us from seeking out who we really are is
bondage... I am held in bondage by my constant acquisition of
books...I have over 5000 books in my own library... (I got a new one yesterday)

it is, in one sense, an addiction... I cannot stop myself from buying books..
as far as addictions go, this one is a fairly good one to have...
but it holds me down, holds me back... I am not free... or said differently,
all my books are my bondage... and to be free.. I must free myself
of my addiction to books... to be liberated, I must go cold turkey
from books... I will not achieve salvation because I am addicted to books...
my books are keeping me from true liberation, my books are keeping me
in bondage... perhaps, perhaps one day I may be strong enough to
walk away from, to be liberated from my books, but not today...

so, what is holding you in bondage? and how can you become liberated
from that bondage? How do you achieve salvation?

salvation is the freeing of someone from their acquisitions, their
bondage to something mental, physical or emotional...

to think about it one way... some around here hold to god... and until
they escape that addiction, they are in bondage...
to achieve liberation requires one to walk away from that which
holds them hostage... for me it is books, and for others, it is god
and for others it is money or fame or titles or material possessions....

what ties you to the earth? that is your bondage...
and how are you going to liberate yourself from that bondage?

Kropotkin

Yes, it is common to become overly focused on externalities to the detriment of one's appreciation to important internal entities. But in my experience it isn't about these things in and of themselves, rather one's obsession with them. That is, "moderation in all things" addresses the problem, rather than giving away all 5000 books.

That's not to say that there aren't healthy, positive ways to have a (limited) obsession. Since where would we be as a society if there were never trailblazers who through their obsession didn't advance knowledge or technology through the product of their obsession?

[Peter Kropotkin]

we can see this process of bondage within the conservative...

the fundamental aspect of being conservative is fear.... you
don't have to guess this, they tell you with every sentence...

listen to what the conservative says,.... how they fear...
(and they fear in no particular order)

science, education, people of color, Islam, immigrants,
Obama, Liberals, WOKE, crime, (but love violence, not sure what that is about)
peace, the United Nations, cooperation, socialism, communism, charity,
CRT, intelligence, women, democracy, fun, beauty, poor people,
anyone not an American, Jews, Hindu's, Buddhists, health care (unless it's for
themselves, for others, no) equality/ justice, the law, the IRS, the FBI,
rational thought, logic, ART, gays, trans, anything different than themselves,


and this list is not a comprehensive list....their hates go on
for a while....

fear is what drives a conservative/GOP/MAGA person...
and that fear is bondage to an emotion... they are held
hostage by an emotion... and they must learn, somehow, to
become liberated from their fear.....otherwise they are really
just animals...and not even animal/human... and not even close
to becoming fully human.....

so what beliefs hold you in bondage? you have no idea until you
hold yourself to a higher standard... until you begin a
reevaluation of values...

but then conservatives hate contemplation...so there is that....

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

and bondage is one aspect of this..... they hold to these illusions to
the understanding of reality....they cannot truly understand what
is real and what isn't if they hold to the illusions in their head..
for example, that the gays/trans are the single worse problem
we have in America is a common conservative belief....or being
''WOKE'' but in reality, in the top 1000 problems we have in the U.S.
the gays and trans people don't even crack the top 1000 problems the
U.S. has...in fact, if anything, I would include them in any listing
of the hope and promise of America... part of the ''city on the hill''
that America was so famous for, for generations....

and many things on the ''hate'' list for conservatives, I would have listed
as positive and worth doing in greater numbers.... but I do have
an optimist belief in the future....

Kropotkin

[LuckyR]

Train kept a rollin'...

[Peter Kropotkin]

Train kept a rollin'...

K: sure if you mean that I have, unlike most here, a clear idea of where
we are and a clear idea of where we need to go... then yes,
that ''Train kept on rollin''

It is clear from most people writings, that they have an ''ad hoc"
understanding of the universe... ''ad hoc'' of the moment,
a temporary vision of the universe... nothing permanent or
lasting longer than 5 minutes... and this ''ad hoc'' nature is
part of these people epistemological, social, political,
economic and philosophical vision of what is and what it should be....

so, I take your post as a compliment as to my own vision of what it
and what could be....

Kropotkin