Philosophy Now Forum

Although we human beings might often think of ourselves as being a certain, consistent mindset/personality... it seems that we actually have varying versions of ourselves that can be brought forth and utilized for different purposes as needed. Depending on the circumstances we are in at any given moment, we can 'shift' to fill and play many 'roles' in life: lover, fighter, worker, parent, child, friend, etc.

In recognizing this adaptive and flexible capability, I think it points to the likelihood of even more untapped 'shifting' capability. In contrast to claiming some distinct rigid version of ourselves: 'this is who I am'... 'this is what I do'... 'this is ME', we might instead allow the versions of ourselves to arise that do things better and have more fun than the rigid versions. After all, how did we become convinced that we were to be so narrowly defined?

Here's my own personal example. I lived alone in the woods for many years. Although I had lots of friends and threw lots of parties, I truly treasured my 'hermit' time, and not seeing anyone for weeks! At the same time, I desired a uniquely compatible partner to share and witness that wonderful life with me. Someone to play with in our hermit sanctuary. Naturally I had certain ideas about what that partner and reality would look like and feel like. What I hadn't considered was my own shift. I couldn't actually fathom it. 'I was who I was.'

Then, after so many years, I met a 'compatible soul'. It could have ended so easily... amidst all the wariness and unfamiliar territory and expectations. But a suggestion arose in my mind: Be the version of yourself that has a successful relationship. I think that somehow shifted me into greater possibility with the right circumstance. I did not sacrifice or lose my authenticity in any way... in fact, his extraordinary acceptance and love has enabled me to expand and express myself even more. None of this was possible, though, until I shifted my idea (my version) I was set on for myself.

How fixed are we?

We might not even realize how 'fixed' we become in our view of a certain version of ourselves... and our view of what's possible or what must be... and that fixation perpetuates a certain reality. Like computer software, we can allow 'upgrades' (with expanded features)... it doesn't change 'who/what we are'... and yes, there will be software 'bugs' to contend with ...but old software programs are not effective or compatible with the ever-evolving operating system of our reality. Nor are our old programs capable of keeping up with our own broadening visions. And pretty much nobody wants to sit down at an old clunky computer anymore, so we need to demonstrate/offer more of our capability if we want someone's interaction.

excellent thread...

Kropotkin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIf6a6dgGCA
Life's a game made for everyone and love is the prize.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm Although we human beings might often think of ourselves as being a certain, consistent mindset/personality...

BUT ONLY SOME of 'you', human beings, might often think such a 'thing'.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm it seems that we actually have varying versions of ourselves that can be brought forth and utilized for different purposes as needed.

BUT although 'you', individually, might perceive or visualize that there are varying versions of "yourselves", there, OBVIOUSLY, IS One True AND Right 'version', ONLY.

And, WHEN 'you' ALSO UNCOVER 'this version', then 'you' WILL ALSO DISCOVER WHY ALL of 'those varying versions' existed, PREVIOUSLY.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm Depending on the circumstances we are in at any given moment, we can 'shift' to fill and play many 'roles' in life: lover, fighter, worker, parent, child, friend, etc.

Which ARE ALL 'delusional' 'versions' ONLY, as "dontaskme" KEEPS POINTING OUT and CLAIMING.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm In recognizing this adaptive and flexible capability, I think it points to the likelihood of even more untapped 'shifting' capability.

BUT, 'shifting' INTO 'differing acts' or 'playing' 'differing roles' IS just MORE 'acting', on the stage of 'Life', as some have previously mentioned.

Also, WHY even 'shift' into DIFFERENT 'acting roles' WHEN just being thee True Self IS FAR MORE EASIER, and SIMPLER?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm In contrast to claiming some distinct rigid version of ourselves: 'this is who I am'... 'this is what I do'... 'this is ME', we might instead allow the versions of ourselves to arise that do things better and have more fun than the rigid versions. After all, how did we become convinced that we were to be so narrowly defined?

BY HOLDING BELIEFS, and, PRESUMING SOME 'versions' are even true.

One example of CLAIMING some distinct rigid version of "oneself" is INSISTING that 'there is NO one truth'. While HAVING and HOLDING this VERY RIGID BELIEF 'one' IS HOLDING and CLAIMING A VERY RIGID 'version' OF "themself"

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm Here's my own personal example. I lived alone in the woods for many years. Although I had lots of friends and threw lots of parties, I truly treasured my 'hermit' time, and not seeing anyone for weeks! At the same time, I desired a uniquely compatible partner to share and witness that wonderful life with me. Someone to play with in our hermit sanctuary. Naturally I had certain ideas about what that partner and reality would look like and feel like. What I hadn't considered was my own shift. I couldn't actually fathom it. 'I was who I was.'

Then, after so many years, I met a 'compatible soul'. It could have ended so easily... amidst all the wariness and unfamiliar territory and expectations. But a suggestion arose in my mind:

ONCE AGAIN, 'you', human beings, do NOT have 'your mind/s'.

But, PLEASE, do NOT let this IRREFUTABLE Truth get in THE WAY of the VERY RIGID OF "yourself" that 'you' HAVE "lacewing".

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm Be the version of yourself that has a successful relationship.

LOL
LOL
LOL

So, ONCE AGAIN, SWAPPED OUT one 'acting role' VERSION of "oneself" FOR ANOTHER 'acting role', which just SEEMS and APPEARS to be better, ONLY.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm I think that somehow shifted me into greater possibility with the right circumstance. I did not sacrifice or lose my authenticity in any way...

But HOW do 'you', 'the ever-changing actor, and, 'role player', DISCERN, Accurately, between what IS 'your authenticity' and what IS NOT?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm in fact, his extraordinary acceptance and love has enabled me to expand and express myself even more.

AND, what IS 'it', EXACTLY, which is, SUPPOSEDLY, 'expanding' and 'expressing' here?

OBVIOUSLY, the term and phrase "myself" IS an OXYMORON.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm None of this was possible, though, until I shifted my idea (my version) I was set on for myself.

How fixed are we?

Some, like 'you', "lacewing", are EXTREMELY RIGIDLY FIXED. Just like ALL of 'you', adult human beings, ARE, and WERE, back, in the days when this is being written.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm We might not even realize how 'fixed' we become in our view of a certain version of ourselves...

AND 'you', "lacewing", here ARE A PRIME example, and A LIVING PROOF, OF 'this'.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm and our view of what's possible or what must be...

Well 'you' have been PROVING, IRREFUTABLY, just HOW UNAWARE 'you' ARE of just HOW FIXED and RIGID some of 'your' views REALLY ARE.

Or, maybe 'you' ARE AWARE and have ALREADY REALIZED but just do NOT WANT BECOME MORE FLEXIBLE, and OPEN.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm and that fixation perpetuates a certain reality.

AGAIN, OF WHICH 'you' have been CLEARLY SHOWING here.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm Like computer software, we can allow 'upgrades' (with expanded features)... it doesn't change 'who/what we are'... and yes, there will be software 'bugs' to contend with ...but old software programs are not effective or compatible with the ever-evolving operating system of our reality.

HOW ABOUT INSTEAD OF CONTINUALLY 'updating', or 'changing' TO DIFFERENT 'versions' or DIFFERENT 'roles', 'you' JUST BE 'who' AND 'what' 'you' REALLY ARE, ONLY.

Oh, that is right, 'you' have NOT YET LEARNED and UNDERSTOOD 'who' AND 'what' 'you' Truly ARE YET. SO, WHAT ABOUT JUST BECOMING Truly OPEN, AGAIN, and JUST REMAINING Truly OPEN ALWAYS?

SEE, IF, and WHEN, 'one' DOES, then there is absolutely NOTHING TO 'update' NOR 'change'. AS 'you' WOULD BE CONSTANTLY-CHANGING, AND FLOWING, as One, WITH thee Universe AND the ACTUAL Truth OF 'things', themselves.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm Nor are our old programs capable of keeping up with our own broadening visions.

WHY do 'you' IMAGINE 'you' have STILL NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO SEE that ABSOLUTELY CRYSTAL CLEAR and OBVIOUS Fact that by JUST BECOMING and REMAINING OPEN, ALWAYS, MEANS that 'you' ARE IN and AT the BROADEST OF 'versions' POSSIBLE, AND FOREVER MORE I WILL ADD?

Could the REASON WHY 'you' HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SEE and UNDERSTAND 'this IRREFUTABLE Fact and Truth, YET, BE BECAUSE of 'your', current, FIXED and RIGID views and BELIEFS?

Could 'they' have BEEN HOLDING 'you' BACK, and PREVENTING and STOPPING 'you' FROM SEEING the ACTUAL and IRREFUTABLE Truth OF 'things' here, PREVIOUSLY?

Lacewing wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:42 pm And pretty much nobody wants to sit down at an old clunky computer anymore, so we need to demonstrate/offer more of our capability if we want someone's interaction.

So, WHY ARE 'you', "lacewing", ACTING, and PLAYING the ROLE, of the VERY 'old clunky computer' here, STILL?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:27 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIf6a6dgGCA
Life's a game made for everyone and love is the prize.

YES.

And, like ALL 'games' they were created FOR PLAY, and to be PLAYED, FOR FUN.

The 'game of Life' being NO different, except the 'game of Life' has ONLY One 'rule' - Do NOT abuse ANY 'thing', and IS PLAYED on a Truly 'level' playing field. That is; absolutely EVERY one IS INVITED, encouraged, guided, and supported, TO PLAY, and PLAY EQUALLY.

In the 'game of Life' there are NO 'winners', NOR 'losers', and where EVERY one comes out HAPPY, SATISFIED, and REWARDED. As 'making the game BETTER', FOR EVERY one as One, IS the GOAL OF 'the game'.

So true. What we say and how we talk depends on who we are talking to.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:05 am So true. What we say and how we talk depends on who we are talking to.

And what IS the ACTUAL DIFFERENCE?

'you' are ALL 'human beings', correct?

The one i hate the most tho is the service representative and/or clerk and customer relationship. Any of em. The drive thru guy, the waitress, the sales rep, etc. That's the fakest one of em all and everybody feels and knows it's fake but can't stop doing it becuz it's expected by society.

People are now calling me 'sir' more so than ever before cuz I'm gettin old I guess and look like a 'sir' and i can't stand it. I feel so alone and isolated from them when they call me that. I'd feel much better if i were called bro or home slice.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:18 am The one i hate the most tho is the service representative and/or clerk and customer relationship. Any of em. The drive thru guy, the waitress, the sales rep, etc. That's the fakest one of em all and everybody feels and knows it's fake but can't stop doing it becuz it's expected by society.

'you' call 'them' 'the fakest' YET it IS 'you' who OPENLY ADMITS CHANGES 'your ROLE', DEPENDING on 'who' 'you' are talking to.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:18 am People are now calling me 'sir' more so than ever before cuz I'm gettin old I guess and look like a 'sir' and i can't stand it.

If 'you' can NOT so-call 'stand it' getting called 'sir', then WHY NOT just tell 'them' THE TRUTH about what 'you' went to prison for?

I am pretty sure you will then get called 'sir' a LOT LESS.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:18 am I feel so alone and isolated from them when they call me that. I'd feel much better if i were called bro or home slice.

Have you EVER 'thought' to just INFORM 'them' of what 'you' would PREFER 'they' call 'you'?

"If 'you' can NOT so-call 'stand it' getting called 'sir', then WHY NOT just tell 'them' THE TRUTH about what 'you' went to prison for? I am pretty sure you will then get called 'sir' a LOT LESS."

That's actually not a bad idea.

Drive thru guy: welcome to starbucks my name is mike what can we get started for you?

Me: can i get a venti caramel ribbon crunch with two shots in it?

Drive thru guy: okay I've got a venti caramel ribbon crunch with two shots. Will there be anything else?

Me: no. that's why I only said a venti caramel ribbon crunch with two shots in it becuz that's all i want.

Drive thru guy: *brief awkward silence* okay your total is $6.98 please drive around si..

Me: WAIT! Don't call me sir yet! I want u to know that I've been to prison for indecent exposure. What do u think about that?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:27 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIf6a6dgGCA
Life's a game made for everyone and love is the prize.

Nice

Love IS the prize!

And I think the path (for me) is to continually learn how to love more... because there's so much to love, and always more.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:18 am The one i hate the most tho is the service representative and/or clerk and customer relationship. Any of em. The drive thru guy, the waitress, the sales rep, etc. That's the fakest one of em all and everybody feels and knows it's fake but can't stop doing it becuz it's expected by society.

Why are you talking about fake people?

This thread is about being authentic while also knowing there's more about yourself that can be explored. One doesn't have to be limited to some small identity or view they might have come to believe about themselves and their life. We can always discover new facets.

It's long been known that we are not one but many, not a singularity but a plurality. The version most obvious to us, the one we wake up to, is a synthesis of all the unknowns that lie latent in our psyches. It may be mostly in dreams that we experience such separations causing its unmitigated strangeness which has no affinity to daytime awareness. But what happens when that center or synthesis cannot hold based on some disruptive trauma? Will it be a dismemberment of personality as hitherto experienced or incipient to forging some new version of ourselves. All kinds of possibilities exist even under normal circumstances, change being a process which never ceases providing its own instantiations as conditioned by time and circumstance which we most often are not the arbiters of or even aware of happening.

As for love, it's not nearly as potent as having a degree of empathy which doesn't judge between greater and lesser but equalizes all as ONE creation. I never felt this mental anodyne called love as ever accomplishing or being anything more than some hyper-stimulation of the senses, encapsulating its object with more value than is due. I rarely felt it, have no use for it, and never missed it.

promethean75 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:46 am "If 'you' can NOT so-call 'stand it' getting called 'sir', then WHY NOT just tell 'them' THE TRUTH about what 'you' went to prison for? I am pretty sure you will then get called 'sir' a LOT LESS."

That's actually not a bad idea.

Drive thru guy: welcome to starbucks my name is mike what can we get started for you?

Me: can i get a venti caramel ribbon crunch with two shots in it?

Drive thru guy: okay I've got a venti caramel ribbon crunch with two shots. Will there be anything else?

Me: no. that's why I only said a venti caramel ribbon crunch with two shots in it becuz that's all i want.

Drive thru guy: *brief awkward silence* okay your total is $6.98 please drive around si..

Me: WAIT! Don't call me sir yet! I want u to know that I've been to prison for indecent exposure. What do u think about that?

WHY did 'you' PRESUME that 'that human being' was going to call 'you', "sir" here?

It was like 'you' were LOOKING FOR what 'you' do NOT like, NOR WANT.

Also, 'you' DWELL in a country and culture that 'respects' ONLY SOME. So, 'you' either LEAVE to a MUCH BETTER place, WHERE absolutely EVERY one DOES what you WANT, and DESIRE. Or, STAY 'there' and CHANGE 'that culture'.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:55 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 8:27 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIf6a6dgGCA
Life's a game made for everyone and love is the prize.

Nice

Love IS the prize!

And I think the path (for me) is to continually learn how to love more... because there's so much to love, and always more.

I suggest 'you' FIND OUT what 'love' ACTUALLY IS, FIRST.

THEN 'you' WILL BE ABLE TO JUST LOVE MORE, and/or JUST PROVIDE MORE LOVE, JUSTLY.