You cannot fake feelings

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Dontaskme
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You cannot fake feelings

Post by Dontaskme »

Why, because there is 'no you' to fake feeling. Feeling just arises spontaneously without force or intention, like breathing.
The one area of body language that is identical in all cultures is the seven basic emotions that people around the world express, recognize, and relate to in the same way. Discovered and categorized by Paul Ekman and his colleagues at the University of California in San Francisco, the universal emotional expressions are joy, surprise, sadness, anger, fear, disgust, and contempt. Here is how they can be identified: https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolkinse ... 3f3e6d5314
Do not fake it until you make it, or you will not make it. Always be yourself, the real fictional character.


Joy: The muscles of the cheeks raise, eyes narrow, lines appear at the corner of the eyes, the corners of the mouth turn up.

Surprise: The eyebrows raise, there is a slight raising of upper eyelids and dropping of the lower jaw.

Sadness: The eyelids droop as the inner corners of the brows raise and (in extreme sorrow) draw together, and the corners of the lips pull down.

Anger: The eyebrows are pulled together and lowered, the lower eyelid is tensed, the eyes glare, and the lips tightened, appearing thinner.

Fear: The eyebrows draw together and raise, the upper eyelid raises, the lower eyelid tenses, and the lips stretch horizontally.

Disgust: The nose wrinkles, the upper lip raises, and the corners of the mouth turn down.

Contempt: The only unilateral expression. The cheek muscles on one side of the face contract, one corner of the mouth turns up.
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phyllo
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by phyllo »

According to a recent study published in the journal Experimental Psychology, researchers found smiling — even a fake smile — can have a positive impact on mood. Essentially, triggering certain facial muscles by smiling can “trick” your brain into thinking you’re happy.

“When your muscles say you’re happy, you’re more likely to see the world around you in a positive way,” Fernando Marmolejo-Ramos, study author and human and artificial cognition expert at the University of South Australia, said in a press release.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/21/simple- ... earch.html
Iwannaplato
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Iwannaplato »

In general I avoid faking feelings, but in some situations I choose to: with bosses, with violent people who can get triggered into violence by fear, with border police, in certain social situations where I don't want to create problems for myself or others.

I think people can and do fake feelings all the time. Sometimes consciously, sometimes not. People can be mistaken about what they are feeling. They can think they are sad when they are pissed off. People often develop go to emotions, or have emotions they avoid and others they are more comfortable with. They often convert the former to the latter. Sometimes you can see the mismatched body language/message. Sometimes not.

People with less societal or social power often hide the yangy emotions around people with more social or societal power. And of course violence tends to get many people, especially children, to learn to hide emotions from themselves, including smiling when one is not happy.

Around people I trust, and just in general, I try to move the line towards direct expression of what is there. In fact I just got told to not park my bike where I do. I told the person I had the right to - I looked up the laws yesterday - and I was met with a barrage of reasons I was wrong, I was interrupted, and no real response was made to what I said. She also threatened me. I did not express all of what I felt, but compared to earlier in my life I expressed much more of what I felt, without threats and without getting personal.

That's a goal. To not get in my own way. I think this actually makes me more accepting of other people's emotions. But I do take situations into account and don't hold a gun to my head to express everything always.
Gary Childress
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Gary Childress »

Faking it doesn't always fool the people you want to fool in the way you want to fool them. It's difficult to accurately analyze one's situation fully and plan or devise what emotion would be most appropriate to achieve a desired result that we perceive to be the best result that our fallible minds can determine to be desirable and then manipulate our bodies in order to best fake the appearance of that emotion.

It's easier and less taxing or more economical (though perhaps not always as directly advantageous to oneself) to be authentic and take whatever lumps one is going to take for it, though, admittedly it's difficult not to want to fake an emotion just to get past an extraordinarily awkward or even potentially dangerous situation. And if one can't take the lumps that come with a situation, then it's best to have the option to avoid that situation. Of course, not everyone has the option to avoid something and an overreliance on avoidance can leave one a useless wretch living off handouts that others are willing or else forced to give.

The world is a pit for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US thanks to militarism on the part of some and all the profit and spoils that go with it, but I digress.
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Agent Smith
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Agent Smith »

"He's the guy!"

"What do you mean 'he's the guy'?!"

"You're not Tom, are you?"

"No, I'm Harry!"

"Well Harry, he's the guy!"

"What?!"

"Hi, I'm Dick!"

"Er ... hi, Harry!"

"Are you here to buy a Xmas gift?"

"Er ... yes."

"Then you don't know Tom?"

"I know a Tom. Really, who doesn't? Not sure if we're talking aboit the same person though."

"Look, I need to ask you for a favor. In about 15 minutes, a guy, blond, sideburns, red jacket, umbrella, green, will come here. Can you please tell him what I told you?"

"No problemo. Can do!"

"And I thought I was all outta luck! Merci beacoup, Harry's a jolly good fella! Harry's a jolly good fella! Dominus Deus Magnus Est."
Iwannaplato
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Iwannaplato »

Gary Childress wrote: Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:35 pm Faking it doesn't always fool the people you want to fool in the way you want to fool them.
Quite true. Some people are better than others. But when the culture suggests faking emotions, we tend to have a lot of training. At the very least we can hide feelings, with varying degrees of skill.

If we feel terrible it gets quite hard to feign joy, for example. But we all get good at pretending someone didn't just make us nervous, sad, angry. Of course there are exceptions for each of us. And a wide range of variation to what we show.
It's difficult to accurately analyze one's situation fully and plan or devise what emotion would be most appropriate to achieve a desired result that we perceive to be the best result that our fallible minds can determine to be desirable and then manipulate our bodies in order to best fake the appearance of that emotion.
I wish this was truer. One big problem is that often other people don't really want to know. The boss who just shit on someone doesn't really want to know they did this. We have been trained to find other people's emotions distressing.

So there can be collusion between the pretender/hider and other people. Of course we are all thrilled to be at this party. The social pressure to be thrilled and the social pressure to not go into feelings makes expressers and noticers in a kind of social contract to 'have a great time, woohooooo!'
It's easier and less taxing or more economical (though perhaps not always as directly advantageous to oneself) to be authentic
I agree. Been working at this for a couple of decades.
and take whatever lumps one is going to take for it, though, admittedly it's difficult not to want to fake an emotion just to get past an extraordinarily awkward or even potentially dangerous situation.
There's physical danger, economic danger and social dangers.
And if one can't take the lumps that come with a situation, then it's best to have the option to avoid that situation. Of course, not everyone has the option to avoid something and an overreliance on avoidance can leave one a useless wretch living off handouts that others are willing or else forced to give.
It's hard to avoid work and at work, generally, one is not free to express what one feels beyond a narrow little band.
The world is a pit for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US thanks to militarism on the part of some and all the profit and spoils that go with it, but I digress.
I'd add some other causes, but agree in general with the point.
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Dontaskme
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Dontaskme »

Image
Gary Childress
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Gary Childress »

Agent Smith wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:36 am "And I thought I was all outta luck! Merci beacoup, Harry's a jolly good fella! Harry's a jolly good fella! Dominus Deus Magnus Est."
I feel a need to interject on behalf of humanity; if "Harry's a jolly good fella" then it's probably best for the one pledging accolades to Harry to exert as much care for his own personal conduct as he is able, because one's own personal conduct ultimately affects the person to whom he gives praise to. And if Harry sees you royally fucking something up, he might have to withdraw his support out of human decency. "Harry" would probably be very upset to have to do that. Just in case, that aspect of things isn't or wasn't within your current field of perception. Otherwise, I have no idea why I'm telling you that.

BTW: How is your heart doing? Has it found the "right" place to be, yet? Last I heard from you, you weren't sure.
Gary Childress
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Gary Childress »

Or, of course, one can always bestow accolades upon "Harry" and just leave it at that. Harry can then go pat himself on the back because someone said something nice about him, maybe? Then, perhaps "Harry" can trade in those accolades for a new air freshener in his Toyota Corolla? :?

But, heck, I don't know anything about Harry. Maybe he doesn't deserve anything more than a handshake from all those nice people who feel sorry for him and bestow praise upon him just to make him feel better. Give him any more than that and it'd probably just go to his head and make him think he actually did something right for a change.

Heck, who needs "Harry"? Hopefully, he'll die quietly and peacefully and make a little room for someone else.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Agent Smith
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Agent Smith »

Gary Childress wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:44 pm
Agent Smith wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:36 am "And I thought I was all outta luck! Merci beacoup, Harry's a jolly good fella! Harry's a jolly good fella! Dominus Deus Magnus Est."
I feel a need to interject on behalf of humanity; if "Harry's a jolly good fella" then it's probably best for the one pledging accolades to Harry to exert as much care for his own personal conduct as he is able, because one's own personal conduct ultimately affects the person to whom he gives praise to. And if Harry sees you royally fucking something up, he might have to withdraw his support out of human decency. "Harry" would probably be very upset to have to do that. Just in case, that aspect of things isn't or wasn't within your current field of perception. Otherwise, I have no idea why I'm telling you that.

BTW: How is your heart doing? Has it found the "right" place to be, yet? Last I heard from you, you weren't sure.
It's just a story.
Gary Childress
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Gary Childress »

Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:30 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:44 pm
Agent Smith wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:36 am "And I thought I was all outta luck! Merci beacoup, Harry's a jolly good fella! Harry's a jolly good fella! Dominus Deus Magnus Est."
I feel a need to interject on behalf of humanity; if "Harry's a jolly good fella" then it's probably best for the one pledging accolades to Harry to exert as much care for his own personal conduct as he is able, because one's own personal conduct ultimately affects the person to whom he gives praise to. And if Harry sees you royally fucking something up, he might have to withdraw his support out of human decency. "Harry" would probably be very upset to have to do that. Just in case, that aspect of things isn't or wasn't within your current field of perception. Otherwise, I have no idea why I'm telling you that.

BTW: How is your heart doing? Has it found the "right" place to be, yet? Last I heard from you, you weren't sure.
It's just a story.
Is it to write a novel or something? If so, you're welcome to borrow my ideas for plot twists or whatever. If you'd rather I not respond to your posts, which I have a difficult time understanding anyway, then I'll be happy to do that too. I had thought maybe you wanted responses but sometimes we just want to be heard and not spoken to. I can understand that as well. I wish you the best either way. Keep your chin up and do the right thing to the best of your ability. You won't regret it if you take that course. :)
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Agent Smith
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Agent Smith »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:36 am
Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:30 am
Gary Childress wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:44 pm

I feel a need to interject on behalf of humanity; if "Harry's a jolly good fella" then it's probably best for the one pledging accolades to Harry to exert as much care for his own personal conduct as he is able, because one's own personal conduct ultimately affects the person to whom he gives praise to. And if Harry sees you royally fucking something up, he might have to withdraw his support out of human decency. "Harry" would probably be very upset to have to do that. Just in case, that aspect of things isn't or wasn't within your current field of perception. Otherwise, I have no idea why I'm telling you that.

BTW: How is your heart doing? Has it found the "right" place to be, yet? Last I heard from you, you weren't sure.
It's just a story.
Is it to write a novel or something? If so, you're welcome to borrow my ideas for plot twists or whatever. If you'd rather I not respond to your posts, which I have a difficult time understanding anyway, then I'll be happy to do that too. I had thought maybe you wanted responses but sometimes we just want to be heard and not spoken to. I can understand that as well. I wish you the best either way. Keep your chin up and do the right thing to the best of your ability. You won't regret it if you take that course. :)
Thank you Gary Childress. Your last post was quite a piece, worth examining at a deeper level. Unfortunately, I lack the expertise to do justice to your post. I'm sure there's someone out there who would love to analyze your post.
Gary Childress
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Gary Childress »

Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:32 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:36 am
Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:30 am

It's just a story.
Is it to write a novel or something? If so, you're welcome to borrow my ideas for plot twists or whatever. If you'd rather I not respond to your posts, which I have a difficult time understanding anyway, then I'll be happy to do that too. I had thought maybe you wanted responses but sometimes we just want to be heard and not spoken to. I can understand that as well. I wish you the best either way. Keep your chin up and do the right thing to the best of your ability. You won't regret it if you take that course. :)
Thank you Gary Childress. Your last post was quite a piece, worth examining at a deeper level. Unfortunately, I lack the expertise to do justice to your post. I'm sure there's someone out there who would love to analyze your post.
You're welcome. I'm glad if I did something to help, enough to warrant your "thanks". I have no idea what it could have been but just make sure you do the right thing in return for whatever "help" I gave. I don't like "helping" if it leads to any kind of evil. Keep it good and keep it in the best interest of all. That's all I ask for in return.
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Agent Smith
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Agent Smith »

Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:38 am
Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:32 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 1:36 am

Is it to write a novel or something? If so, you're welcome to borrow my ideas for plot twists or whatever. If you'd rather I not respond to your posts, which I have a difficult time understanding anyway, then I'll be happy to do that too. I had thought maybe you wanted responses but sometimes we just want to be heard and not spoken to. I can understand that as well. I wish you the best either way. Keep your chin up and do the right thing to the best of your ability. You won't regret it if you take that course. :)
Thank you Gary Childress. Your last post was quite a piece, worth examining at a deeper level. Unfortunately, I lack the expertise to do justice to your post. I'm sure there's someone out there who would love to analyze your post.
You're welcome. I'm glad if I did something to help, enough to warrant your "thanks". I have no idea what it could have been but just make sure you do the right thing in return for whatever "help" I gave. I don't like "helping" if it leads to any kind of evil. Keep it good and keep it in the best interest of all. That's all I ask for in return.
No problemo. I must've misread you, a regular feature in my life. How are things at yer end? I see a drastic improvement, a more upbeat, assertive, confident you compared to what we were presented with in an older thread. Allah rahim, eh? One moment you're down in the dumps and another moment you're on cloud 9. Bipolar? Me too!
Gary Childress
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Re: You cannot fake feelings

Post by Gary Childress »

Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:19 am
Gary Childress wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:38 am
Agent Smith wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 2:32 am

Thank you Gary Childress. Your last post was quite a piece, worth examining at a deeper level. Unfortunately, I lack the expertise to do justice to your post. I'm sure there's someone out there who would love to analyze your post.
You're welcome. I'm glad if I did something to help, enough to warrant your "thanks". I have no idea what it could have been but just make sure you do the right thing in return for whatever "help" I gave. I don't like "helping" if it leads to any kind of evil. Keep it good and keep it in the best interest of all. That's all I ask for in return.
No problemo. I must've misread you, a regular feature in my life. How are things at yer end? I see a drastic improvement, a more upbeat, assertive, confident you compared to what we were presented with in an older thread. Allah rahim, eh? One moment you're down in the dumps and another moment you're on cloud 9. Bipolar? Me too!
Wow! Nice to meet a fellow human being struggling with the life of the mind! I didn't know that about you. Yes. I feel a bit energized lately. It's kind of bizarre but I've begun to appreciate Immanuel Kant's famous statement concerning being awakened from his "dogmatic slumber". It's good to feel like one is doing something worth doing. That's really difficult sometimes to find in today's society driven by the "bottom line" and sometimes even "banal evil". I truly hope you are able to find a similar way to be of service to humanity and not just to our own pockets. It's a really good feeling to act out of care for others, although, I can only engage in it so long as I perceive it is truly needed by all. Otherwise, I don't want to risk doing harm through vain activity trying to give people "help" they neither want nor need. It's a real problem for me sometimes. :oops:
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