Philosophy itself.. a dialogue about philosophy

[Peter Kropotkin]

Having spent the better part of my life, thinking about
philosophy, it helps to occasionally rethink it.. and by that I mean,
revisit the grounds of philosophy itself...what is philosophy?

Philosophy: love of wisdom.. or so goes part of thinking about philosophy..
we seek philosophy because we love wisdom.. but within some schools of
philosophy, they encourage one to approach philosophy from different grounds...
not from love, but from a disinterested, impartial viewpoint..
our very approach to philosophy is questioned right from the beginning...

when you look at philosophy, are you engaged in it impartially or disinterested,
or are you an active lover of philosophy? How do you begin your search?
Which leads us to a second question, why philosophy? What are you trying to
discover or find out? And that leads us to one of the basic questions of philosophy,
are we engaged in philosophy from love, a disinterest, or perhaps something else?
For example, Aristotle wrote in one of his books, (The Metaphysics) the opening line
of his books is this...

"All men by nature desire to know"

We seek philosophy because we want to know.. currently, we do not know,
but we are engaged in a search for? and that is one of the questions
of philosophy, what are we seeking? What knowledge are we seeking?
to be happy, to be content, to gain wisdom, to be informed, to engage
in philosophy as a way of life? Why philosophy and not theology or
history or ART or any one of a dozen possibilities of gaining knowledge?
or said another way, what are we searching for and why?

I have always contended that we seek philosophy for the wrong reasons and
therein lies the reason for philosophy's failure.. and that failure rest with
what exactly are we going to do with the philosophy we discover?
Ok, we have this philosophy, now what? What am I going to do with
this or any philosophy I might discover? I might spend years trying to
understand Kant's philosophy, ok great, now what are you going to do with it?
Why seek philosophy in the first place and then what are we going to do
with it once we have discover it?

These are fundamental questions of philosophy that no one seems to ask...
or as the dog that caught the car might ask, Ok, I caught the car, now what?

in my years of research in philosophy, I have come across some different
theories about the point of, the goal of philosophy...

In Pierre Hadot book, ''What is ancient philosophy?"
He suggests a different reason to seek philosophy,
one that the Ancient Greeks followed...and that is philosophy as
a way of life...Plato's academy wasn't just a collage as we know it,
philosophy was treated as a way of life. and Plato's academy was
a place where people learned philosophy and then learned how
to use that philosophy as a way of life...and every single ancient
Greek school was just that, a school in which we learned the philosophy
and then how to use that philosophy as a way of life.... thus Aristotle school
was a place to learn knowledge and then how to put that knowledge into use
as a way of life and this goes for Stoicism, Epicureanism, Cynicism and all the
other Greek schools of philosophy...Which isn't how we use philosophy
today...Plato believed in eternal forms and that becomes abstract knowledge
for us today, learned in a classroom and forgotten/left there..
not to be used in the ''REAL'' world..

and that is where we have gone wrong.. the philosophy we have learned is
simply knowledge that is used as answers to a test and then forgotten...
if you read biographies of philosophers, and I have a large collection of
philosophers biographies, you see for the most part, that philosophers
don't live the philosophical life they write about....I am looking at you
Descartes and Schopenhauer... the one exception seems to be Spinoza...

that is some places for us to start in rethinking what philosophy
actually means, to us individually and collectively...

more later..

Kropotkin

[Phil8659]

If you love a thing, anything at all,
and since the mind can only process information from the body, you start with reexamining, what is a word? What can you name, and what is literacy.

For example, I can live with the expression, What is a Man. But not what is a philosopher, for that Plato answered, the Bible answered, and your own body tells you, the ability to do your own biologically defined job.

A mind is, when functional, the most powerful life support system possible. As such it has a Well-defined biologically determined job to perform, and Well-defined physically determined means of doing that job.

So, do you really know yourself? When in fact, the only person who knew the direction to go, is, as far as I know, Plato, dialectic is just another name for binary recursion.
I do not count the source of the Bible, even though human hands put it in print, of having originated from any human. As is written in that book, no human will even be able to read it until after a certain time in human history, which we call, a cusp point in punctuated equilibrium, found in the works of evolution.

Today, you can proof the words of the Bible, if you are literate enough, and proof the words of Plato, because you use a computer which demonstrates it.
If you love a thing, really found a pearl of great price, do you not sell everything you have to possess it?

We read with our entire body, process that information with the mind, and write it back to the body as human behavior.
Every philosopher taught grammar as applied to human behavior and every true philosopher tried to wrap their brain around just what you can factually name.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Ok, as for me, how do I come to philosophy?
I come to philosophy, not from wonder, or seeking wisdom,
or from knowledge I leave in the classroom, I engage in
philosophy from doubt...It is doubt that drives me into
philosophy... and why I engage in philosophy instead
of history or ART or science or politics... The questions of doubt
means I engage in questions before answers...I have far more
questions then I have answers...

for me, the questions of existence face us the minute we are
born... ''Who am I'' ''What is the point/goal of existence?''
''What am I to do?'' ''What should I believe in?'' ''What can I know?''
These are questions that face us the second we are born...

life for me is not an answer, but is about questions... and existence is about
seeking answers to those questions...some questions never get
answered....

what are your questions?

Kropotkin

[henry quirk]

what are your questions?

Since I'm not a philosopher, my questions are more practical and idiosyncratic.

In no particular order...

What am I gonna have to do to tomorrow to keep me and mine alive and free?

Did *Phil 8tio ever start usin' honey over vinegar?

Do I have enough shells for what's comin'?

Will Harry's Quirky flatter or insult?

When the SHTF how many folks who I currently count as friendly am I gonna have to defend against?

You get the idea...




*currently in my penalty box for usin' vinegar over honey

[Peter Kropotkin]

If you love a thing, anything at all,
and since the mind can only process information from the body, you start with reexamining, what is a word? What can you name, and what is literacy.

For example, I can live with the expression, What is a Man. But not what is a philosopher, for that Plato answered, the Bible answered, and your own body tells you, the ability to do your own biologically defined job.

A mind is, when functional, the most powerful life support system possible. As such it has a Well-defined biologically determined job to perform, and Well-defined physically determined means of doing that job.

So, do you really know yourself? When in fact, the only person who knew the direction to go, is, as far as I know, Plato, dialectic is just another name for binary recursion.
I do not count the source of the Bible, even though human hands put it in print, of having originated from any human. As is written in that book, no human will even be able to read it until after a certain time in human history, which we call, a cusp point in punctuated equilibrium, found in the works of evolution.

Today, you can proof the words of the Bible, if you are literate enough, and proof the words of Plato, because you use a computer which demonstrates it.
If you love a thing, really found a pearl of great price, do you not sell everything you have to possess it?

We read with our entire body, process that information with the mind, and write it back to the body as human behavior.
Every philosopher taught grammar as applied to human behavior and every true philosopher tried to wrap their brain around just what you can factually name.

K: I gotta give phil some credit, no matter what the question is, his
answer is in some order, plato, the bible, grammer and dialectic...

I wish I had his certainty that all questions are so easily answered, but
they are not... but he holds to his certainties of the bible, plato, grammer
and dialectics... I have no such faith... for I doubt and that doubts leads
me to doubt phil ready made answers of plato, the bible, grammer and dialectics...

for phil takes a common approach to philosophy.. which is start at some fixed
point, the bible, plato, grammer and dialectics for example, or some fixed point
that god exists and all other answers must include those fixed points of god existing,
or the bible, plato, grammer and dialectics existing and being a fixed point
of all philosophical answers...

I cannot take such a simple route of philosophy, for I doubt...answers easily found,
like plato, the bible, grammer and dialectics, are not, for me anyway, worth
pursuing... for trying to cram all the answers of the universe into such fixed
setting of plato, the bible, grammer and dialectics, means we are assuming
that every answer can fit into these fixed points of plato, the bible......etc...

I reject simplistic answers to philosophical questions, answers which include
math, geometry, god, plato, grammer, the bible or dialectics..

If the questions of existence were easy to find, we would have known them
centuries ago... but we don't know them and thus we cannot use what we
do not know...

One of the reasons we cannot use answers like god or the bible is for
this reason... we cannot know if god or the bible was written by god...
I cannot use for philosophical reasons something that I can only assume exists,
but I have no proof for.. the existence of god or the bible, as written,
can only be assumed.. it can't be proven and until it is proven, it is simply
an article if faith.. and I doubt... why believe in something that cannot be
proven, but only assumed? and that leaves us plato...I cannot take
on faith that a man, any man, can have the answers I need to quell
my doubts, does Plato have some answers, yes, some answers and Socrates
has some answers, and Nietzsche has some answers and Kant has some answers,
(which is how Hegel thought about it, everybody has a little bit of the truth,
but not all the truth, so Hegel ''stole'' a bit from everyone)

I doubt, so I cannot hold to one answer to the questions of existence...
I hold that to every single question lies more than one reason/answer...
one answer to one question does not seem to exists (of course
some around here will go out of their way to find some question that
has one answer, but that isn't philosophy, that is being a contrarian, not
being philosophical, spending time proving someone is wrong as the sole
answering of questions, isn't philosophy)

philosophy, as in life, is just about questions, not about answers...
the search in philosophy as in life, is in seeking out the right questions
to ask, ''What am I to do?'' and not saying, god is the answer or the
bible is the answer.. but what is my question during my own existence?

Kropotkin

[Peter Kropotkin]

what are your questions?

Since I'm not a philosopher, my questions are more practical and idiosyncratic.

In no particular order...

What am I gonna have to do to tomorrow to keep me and mine alive and free?

Did *Phil 8tio ever start usin' honey over vinegar?

Do I have enough shells for what's comin'?

Will Harry's Quirky flatter or insult?

When the SHTF how many folks who I currently count as friendly am I gonna have to defend against?

You get the idea...
*currently in my penalty box for usin' vinegar over honey

K: If you ask questions, you are a philosopher.. regardless
of the question....

Kropotkin

[Phil8659]

what are your questions?

Since I'm not a philosopher, my questions are more practical and idiosyncratic.

In no particular order...

What am I gonna have to do to tomorrow to keep me and mine alive and free?

Did *Phil 8tio ever start usin' honey over vinegar?

Do I have enough shells for what's comin'?

Will Harry's Quirky flatter or insult?

When the SHTF how many folks who I currently count as friendly am I gonna have to defend against?

You get the idea...
*currently in my penalty box for usin' vinegar over honey

K: If you ask questions, you are a philosopher.. regardless
of the question....

Kropotkin

What would you do with a computer which acted in accordance with your own response?
You changed your criteria, you sold yourself short.

[henry quirk]

what are your questions?

Since I'm not a philosopher, my questions are more practical and idiosyncratic.

In no particular order...

What am I gonna have to do to tomorrow to keep me and mine alive and free?

Did *Phil 8tio ever start usin' honey over vinegar?

Do I have enough shells for what's comin'?

Will Harry's Quirky flatter or insult?

When the SHTF how many folks who I currently count as friendly am I gonna have to defend against?

You get the idea...
*currently in my penalty box for usin' vinegar over honey

K: If you ask questions, you are a philosopher.. regardless
of the question....

Kropotkin

Then, gosh darn it, somebody degree me already!

9A4D8E10-2956-4DA7-9201-9B5AC7519EEB.jpeg

[Peter Kropotkin]

Since I'm not a philosopher, my questions are more practical and idiosyncratic.

In no particular order...

What am I gonna have to do to tomorrow to keep me and mine alive and free?

Did *Phil 8tio ever start usin' honey over vinegar?

Do I have enough shells for what's comin'?

Will Harry's Quirky flatter or insult?

When the SHTF how many folks who I currently count as friendly am I gonna have to defend against?

You get the idea...
*currently in my penalty box for usin' vinegar over honey

K: If you ask questions, you are a philosopher.. regardless
of the question....

Kropotkin

Then, gosh darn it, somebody degree me already!

9A4D8E10-2956-4DA7-9201-9B5AC7519EEB.jpeg

K: therein lies an interesting idea... that by not getting a "degree" in philosophy,
you avoid having a certain ism/ideology forced into you... for example,
the "philosophical community" holds to certain, for a lack of a better word.. faith,
in certain idea's.. for example they "train" you into holding that Nietzsche holds
to certain beliefs and that Hume has a set, certain beliefs... by not getting
"trained" in such ism's and ideologies, you avoid those set patterns...
I don't have a college degree, thus I avoid being "trained" "educated"
into certain set beliefs.... I can make up my own mind as to what
Nietzsche meant or what exactly did Hume or Kant mean when they said whatever?

I am free of the ideologies and ism's that they teach as given, in collage or the university...

I can work out, as I did, my own understanding of the universe.. I have held in my life,
5 or 6 different philosophical beliefs.. what I hold to today is my own beliefs, distilled
to my own questions after 40 years of thinking about it...

I have held 3 distinct and different political positions... and today, I am moving
in another direction.. not quite sure where I will end up, but I will, I hope
get there...

or to say in another way, "I don't need no stinking philosophy degree"
I can just read, learn, think and write out what my own beliefs are...

Kropotkin

[Phil8659]

henry quirk

What? Are you improving?
I really cannot disagree with that response of yours.

[henry quirk]

"I don't need no stinking philosophy degree"
I can just read, learn, think and write out what my own beliefs are...

[Phil8659]

"I don't need no stinking philosophy degree"
I can just read, learn, think and write out what my own beliefs are...

One does not need any formal education, but one is completely wrong that we do not get to decide what the results of reasoning is, it is standards of grammar systems. Not us. As Plato pointed out, not gods or men, but simply what is provably true.

[Peter Kropotkin]

"I don't need no stinking philosophy degree"
I can just read, learn, think and write out what my own beliefs are...

One does not need any formal education, but one is completely wrong that we do not get to decide what the results of reasoning is, it is standards of grammar systems. Not us. As Plato pointed out, not gods or men, but simply what is provably true.

K: ahhhh, I wait for the day when phil doesn't answer every single question with
without some reference to Plato, grammar or the bible or dialectics...
I suppose I shall be waiting in vain for phil, because every answer must fit into
into one of those categories... it really isn't much more than faith that
phil has in Plato, grammar, the bible or dialectics... he prays
with that formula, Plato, grammar, the bible and dialectics...
and every single answer he has, must fit into that quartet of his,
plato, the bible, grammar or dialectics...

it is faith he has, not philosophy...

Kropotkin

[Phil8659]

Peter Kropotkin

Thank you, I see you just love your new chair.

[Peter Kropotkin]

Peter Kropotkin

Thank you, I see you just love your new chair.

K: ahhhh, an answer without a reference to Plato, the bible, grammar
or dialectics ...... let us hope he can answer with more than a sentence
now, but it is a start...

Kropotkin