For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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You become more sympathetic to people's pain, regardless of your degree of actual input in the situation, and you suffer more because of it.
Well it's the correct philosophical "metaparadigm", but leads out of Western philosophy and into unknown territory (unknown for us). It automatically solves like half of philosophical problems or more, including the Hard problem, and sheds light on the nature of our existence / our "true self" etc. etc.
Well my experience has been that the alienation/distancing is unavoidable, and it's simply not possible to bridge the gap. Maybe in 100 years, but not now. Current Western culture is just plain incompatible with nondualism, and it also requires a fair amount of intelligence and openness to even grasp it. That's why I only experiment with talking about it on philosophy forums, and even there 90% of people have no idea what I mean. Talking about it in everyday life, I would only be seen and written off as crazy, a lunatic, but achieve nothing.NEW wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:50 pm What I like to include also;
- Because this leads out of Western thinking, I also have to mention an alienation/distancing of some sort happening.
Can anyone relate to this?
- Next to that, related to the previous, I experience some difficulties trying to fill the gap, or bridge in between those lines of thinking (Western thinking and non dual), resulting in frustrations and defensive stands.
While this is not the intention of course. I think I know now on why this is happening (conditioning factors that generates defensive factors accordingly)
Anyone knows a way to handle/bridge this nevertheless?
Cause I really do feel at times, what that man feels, dragged out of plato's cave, and returning to the cave to try and tell the tale ...
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM )
Thinking, itself, is duality as thoughts could be right/true or wrong/false.
Many thanks for your feedback, and it is much appreciated!Age wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:48 pm
Thinking, itself, is duality as thoughts could be right/true or wrong/false.
Whereas,
Knowing, Itself, is nondual as It can only be True and Right.
So, if you are only asking for "thoughts/impressions", then you will only get duality.
If, however, you want to Truly go beyond duality thought/thinking, then you need to get to Knowing, which is already within 'you' anyway.
What i have found is expressing nondual is very easy, simply due to the fact that it is very well understood and that language has been evolving to express and explain nondual, when the time is right. The vocabulary is made specifically for this purpose and it is very simple indeed. Human beings, through duality thinking, just confuses and makes hard what is essentially truly very simple and easy.NEW wrote: ↑Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:56 amMany thanks for your feedback, and it is much appreciated!Age wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:48 pm
Thinking, itself, is duality as thoughts could be right/true or wrong/false.
Whereas,
Knowing, Itself, is nondual as It can only be True and Right.
So, if you are only asking for "thoughts/impressions", then you will only get duality.
If, however, you want to Truly go beyond duality thought/thinking, then you need to get to Knowing, which is already within 'you' anyway.
You certainly made your point trough this very post you made:
Although I do not agree fully, I indeed forgot to mention another aspect of this; and that is that I found the limitations of going beyond dual thinking, or non dual, ...and this can be found in language upon itself.
There I found that very fabric of thinking, and expressing things beyond the duality factor can be very tough, simply due to the fact that our language is not ready for it. The vocabulary for it simply isn't quite there, since almost everything is focused upon that, very limited, duality factor.
"Most" might say they focus on silence, but "they" also do have a very strong tendency to want to share and express this "silence" through language, which is obviously dualistic in nature. One overrides the other, which thee Truth of will soon be revealed, heard, and seen/understood.
Hey Atla,Atla wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:30 pmWell my experience has been that the alienation/distancing is unavoidable, and it's simply not possible to bridge the gap. Maybe in 100 years, but not now. Current Western culture is just plain incompatible with nondualism, and it also requires a fair amount of intelligence and openness to even grasp it. That's why I only experiment with talking about it on philosophy forums, and even there 90% of people have no idea what I mean. Talking about it in everyday life, I would only be seen and written off as crazy, a lunatic, but achieve nothing.NEW wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:50 pm What I like to include also;
- Because this leads out of Western thinking, I also have to mention an alienation/distancing of some sort happening.
Can anyone relate to this?
- Next to that, related to the previous, I experience some difficulties trying to fill the gap, or bridge in between those lines of thinking (Western thinking and non dual), resulting in frustrations and defensive stands.
While this is not the intention of course. I think I know now on why this is happening (conditioning factors that generates defensive factors accordingly)
Anyone knows a way to handle/bridge this nevertheless?
Cause I really do feel at times, what that man feels, dragged out of plato's cave, and returning to the cave to try and tell the tale ...
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM )
So imo just keep acting like everyone else does in the cave, and forget about improving the world. After a while the original ignorant state can be readopted quite well, it won't even really matter that there's something "beyond" it.
But then again I'm also still trying to fully figure out how to handle this whole situation, maybe others came up with better ways.
To be honest I don't really like to talk about nondualism in private. It has become uninteresting to me, there's not much to say and it's a bit annoying/painful because I don't like to be reminded of the social alienation.NEW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 12:16 am Hey Atla,
After some evaluation,
this is sound advice. Many thanks!
Although this also feels like telling Armstrong, and his rocket fueled up, ready to go to the moon, to not go ...I don't think I can do it, simply going back and "watch mindless game shows or soap opera's" (as a matter of speaking) during my remaining time here.
It would feel like wasted time really, of unreached potential and possible aid, even if it's 100 years from now.
But at the same time, I must concur with your advice to also take others into consideration, and keep acting like everyone else "in the cave" also, sorta speak.
And since you are also struggling with this,
I may have a solution that could serve both means, and possible bridging.
Could we perhaps get more acquainted and possibly have some discussions around this, more private? (and perhaps with some others as well, interested in exploring this)
This way we could perhaps do some exploring, so that this side is fulfilled, so we are able to go back to the cave at any time also with a peace of mind.
I know I would appreciate such a thing, cause right now I'm driving my surroundings mad and defensive with my alienated thinking,
This might become a non issue when I could communicate once in a while with someone, that has more understanding towards this.
Please pm me if you might be interested.
Either way, thanks for your info and advice around this matter.
You can find them online here and there as well. I think there's a nondualism forum also somewhere.No worries, it was just a suggestion.Atla wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:35 am
To be honest I don't really like to talk about nondualism in private. It has become uninteresting to me, there's not much to say and it's a bit annoying/painful because I don't like to be reminded of the social alienation.
We aren't all that alone though, I think there are hundreds of millions of Buddhists and Advaitans etc. out there who are like us. They are simply mostly living on the other side of the globe. They say you can walk around in India, say the things you drive your surroundings mad with, and everyone there will agree there with you with a 'well duh' attitude.
I did this experiment and found there to be no body/person to go beyond dual thought. And that any notion of a person was just a thought, which is the dual aspect of my beingness.. where I am created via identification with the thought arising in me ...but this thought of me couldn't go beyond because it's the totally still and unmovable awareness that I am...and so my expriment showed me that ( thinker and thought ) are inseparably ONE in the instantaneous moment, and that duality aka the knower and the known cannot exist separately, and that the mental dynamic of duality work in conjunction arising simultaneously together in and by association.
Many thanks Dontaskme, although I have some difficulty grasping the first part of it.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:38 am
I did this experiment and found there to be no body/person to go beyond dual thought. And that any notion of a person was just a thought, which is the dual aspect of my beingness.. where I am created via identification with the thought arising in me ...but this thought of me couldn't go beyond because it's the totally still and unmovable awareness that I am...and so my expriment showed me that ( thinker and thought ) are inseparably ONE in the instantaneous moment, and that duality aka the knower and the known cannot exist separately, and that the mental dynamic of duality work in conjunction arising simultaneously together in and by association.
For example: A thought is an object known...but the knower of the object known can never be the object known.The knower is only ever the blank gap between thoughts, and a thought is made of the same blankness, otherwise known as empty space.
That blank gap is who you are in reality. But then what the emptiness does is it fills itself in, which creates an artificial overlay upon itself in the form of a duality, but it's always and ever a nondual duality.
How does that sound to you?
PS, nonduality is in fact a very beautiful concept when fully seen for what it is. It's the end of mental suffering, so it's a really positive subject, despite negative opposition to it, which you sometimes get on this forum.
The idea of self awareness is that every single thinking sentient creature on earth will eventually become familar with the true nature of their reality and there may even be a sigh of sweet relief, or shock and horror, who knows, the mind is a powerful force indeed when it comes to certain beliefs...albeit illusory.
When Einstein said '' The world is an illusion albeit a persistent one'' ...never had there been a more truer and accurate quote ever quoted, the quote is absolutely spot on.
.
No, I didn't mean I was getting stuck, I was basically saying that there is no one to get stuck or go beyond the dual nature of reality. Stating that the me that I believed myself to be was just a temporal passing thought within the still unmoved awareness that is my real nature. so the stuck part to me, is when the thought is mistaken to be the presence of being and not just the passing cloud within that presence.NEW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:00 pmMany thanks Dontaskme, although I have some difficulty grasping the first part of it.Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:38 am
I did this experiment and found there to be no body/person to go beyond dual thought. And that any notion of a person was just a thought, which is the dual aspect of my beingness.. where I am created via identification with the thought arising in me ...but this thought of me couldn't go beyond because it's the totally still and unmovable awareness that I am...and so my expriment showed me that ( thinker and thought ) are inseparably ONE in the instantaneous moment, and that duality aka the knower and the known cannot exist separately, and that the mental dynamic of duality work in conjunction arising simultaneously together in and by association.
For example: A thought is an object known...but the knower of the object known can never be the object known.The knower is only ever the blank gap between thoughts, and a thought is made of the same blankness, otherwise known as empty space.
That blank gap is who you are in reality. But then what the emptiness does is it fills itself in, which creates an artificial overlay upon itself in the form of a duality, but it's always and ever a nondual duality.
How does that sound to you?
PS, nonduality is in fact a very beautiful concept when fully seen for what it is. It's the end of mental suffering, so it's a really positive subject, despite negative opposition to it, which you sometimes get on this forum.
The idea of self awareness is that every single thinking sentient creature on earth will eventually become familar with the true nature of their reality and there may even be a sigh of sweet relief, or shock and horror, who knows, the mind is a powerful force indeed when it comes to certain beliefs...albeit illusory.
When Einstein said '' The world is an illusion albeit a persistent one'' ...never had there been a more truer and accurate quote ever quoted, the quote is absolutely spot on.
.
Are you trying to say perhaps, as mentioned earliar here on this tread, that your experiment kept getting stuck within definitions and language conditioning / and therefore "thinking" like that?
Yes, and that's exactly how I conducted this experiment, but I understand that being able to express what I discovered is very difficult or most likey impossible to put into words so that another being would understand it in a way that it has also been their experience too.
Yes, exactly, I agree ..so thanks for your response.NEW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:00 pmBut I think you did that cause this generates more of a stream, and you feel the entanglement of everything becoming "one". Not just thinker/thoughts, but also past, present, future, feelings, emotions, reasoning, intuition ...
And in such moments I felt I was an unique being, and one with everything.
You're welcome, and thanks for your nonduality thread. We are waking up, and this is the really good news for a change.NEW wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:00 pmIt's very hard to explain, maybe Alan watts explained it best here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51axSV2xgj0
The second part is clear and I have to concur with that.
Anyway, many thanks for this contribution!
you are welcome, and thank you for the discussion and understanding.
