You and Your Mind

[Philosophy Now]

by Rick Lewis

https://philosophynow.org/issues/130/You_and_Your_Mind

[Walker]

“Must the centre of your consciousness be located in the same place as your physical brain? It seems intuitive. However, Aristotle thought the heart was the seat of intelligence, and that didn’t stop him from functioning, or indeed teaching philosophy. Could you shift your centre of consciousness outside your head, like Sheila, or perhaps if you used remote cameras to alter the location from which you perceive the world?”
- Rick Lewis


“That which rises as ‘I’ in this body is the mind. If one inquires as to where in the body the thought ‘I’ rises first, one would discover that it rises in the heart. That is the place of the mind’s origin. Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place.”
- Sri Ramana Maharshi

[Nick_A]

“Must the centre of your consciousness be located in the same place as your physical brain? It seems intuitive. However, Aristotle thought the heart was the seat of intelligence, and that didn’t stop him from functioning, or indeed teaching philosophy. Could you shift your centre of consciousness outside your head, like Sheila, or perhaps if you used remote cameras to alter the location from which you perceive the world?”
- Rick Lewis

What if Plato's theory of the tripartite soul is accurate? Then the dominating part of our organism becomes active due to circumstances. One moment thoughts are dominant, and quickly yields to either appetites or emotions. The seat of consciousness varies

Plato's three elements of the psyche are

The appetites, which includes all our myriad desires for various pleasures, comforts, physical satisfactions, and bodily ease. There are so many of these appetites that Plato does not bother to enumerate them, but he does note that they can often be in conflict even with each other. This element of the soul is represented by the ugly black horse on the left.

The spirited, or hot-blooded, part, i.e., the part that gets angry when it perceives (for example) an injustice being done. This is the part of us that loves to face and overcome great challenges, the part that can steel itself to adversity, and that loves victory, winning, challenge, and honor. (Note that Plato's use of the term "spirited" here is not the same as "spiritual." He means "spirited" in the same sense that we speak of a high-spirited horse, for example, one with lots of energy and power.) This element of the soul is represented by the noble white horse on the right.

The mind (nous), our conscious awareness, is represented by the charioteer who is guiding (or who at least should be guiding) the horses and chariot. This is the part of us that thinks, analyzes, looks ahead, rationally weighs options, and tries to gauge what is best and truest overall.

If true, there is no I, no inner unity. The source of decision or the feeling of I can arise from anywhere within the tripartite soul.

[henry quirk]

"are your decisions freely made or are you just playing out an inevitable predetermined dance of cause and effect?"

I make my choices freely. Influences are everywhere, without and within, but no determiners.

#

"Is your identity as an individual something fixed and permanent?"

My identity (me, myself, I) is the diamond-hard center upon which the schmutz of experience accretes.

#

"Is your mind ultimately just an assemblage of neurons?"

My mind (me, myself, I) is the on-going action of a particular assemblage of neurons as that assemblage is inextricably embedded in a particular body existing in the world.

#

"Do you have a mind or is it better to say that you are a mind"

I am a brain/body/mind.

#

"Is your mind the same thing as your brain?"

I'm both: the brain (in the body in the world) and the action of that brain (in the body in the world) i.e. 'mind'.

#

"Could your mind survive your bodily death by being transferred to a computer, or maybe uploaded to the Cloud (with or without a harp)?"

A perfect copy is still a copy, so: no, 'I' would not survive.

[Impenitent]

the "I" is constructed in the moment...

new moment, new "I"

-Imp

[henry quirk]

new moment: same old 'I'

[AlexW]

“Must the centre of your consciousness be located in the same place as your physical brain? It seems intuitive. However, Aristotle thought the heart was the seat of intelligence, and that didn’t stop him from functioning, or indeed teaching philosophy. Could you shift your centre of consciousness outside your head, like Sheila, or perhaps if you used remote cameras to alter the location from which you perceive the world?”
- Rick Lewis


“That which rises as ‘I’ in this body is the mind. If one inquires as to where in the body the thought ‘I’ rises first, one would discover that it rises in the heart. That is the place of the mind’s origin. Even if one thinks constantly ‘I’ ‘I’, one will be led to that place.”
- Sri Ramana Maharshi

Yes, but what Ramana refers to when he says “heart” has nothing to do with the physical organ.

[Walker]

Sri Ramana Maharshi is a reference.

However to what you reference, it is a feeling in the heart region of the chest.

I wouldn't know about the chemical mechanics or electric impulses that cause the physical feeling, and that's not really relevant unless you're Dr. Frankenstein.

Rationality indicates that because the heart is the major organ in that region, then there very well could be some chemical connection between the organ and the feeling.

I could describe the actual sensations, in detail, from the first time I awakened to the feeling for what it is, which was before I knew of Sri Ramana Maharshi (the independent reference source), but that too is irrelevant, as I think experiences are individual and anecdotal.

[Impenitent]

new moment: same old 'I'

nope... new moment, new "I"

"I" = "I" + "I" having read these words

otherwise you'd be the same you as you were when you were 5...

-Imp

[henry quirk]

You're confusing growin' up, growin' old (accreting experience, becoming more complex) with wholesale transformation or metamorphosis.

I 'am' as I was at age five: I just 'know', have experienced, a helluva lot more (resulting in the complex, nuanced 'me' of today).

The Oak 'is' the acorn.

[Eodnhoj7]

“Must the centre of your consciousness be located in the same place as your physical brain? It seems intuitive. However, Aristotle thought the heart was the seat of intelligence, and that didn’t stop him from functioning, or indeed teaching philosophy. Could you shift your centre of consciousness outside your head, like Sheila, or perhaps if you used remote cameras to alter the location from which you perceive the world?”
- Rick Lewis

What if Plato's theory of the tripartite soul is accurate? Then the dominating part of our organism becomes active due to circumstances. One moment thoughts are dominant, and quickly yields to either appetites or emotions. The seat of consciousness varies

Plato's three elements of the psyche are

The appetites, which includes all our myriad desires for various pleasures, comforts, physical satisfactions, and bodily ease. There are so many of these appetites that Plato does not bother to enumerate them, but he does note that they can often be in conflict even with each other. This element of the soul is represented by the ugly black horse on the left.

The spirited, or hot-blooded, part, i.e., the part that gets angry when it perceives (for example) an injustice being done. This is the part of us that loves to face and overcome great challenges, the part that can steel itself to adversity, and that loves victory, winning, challenge, and honor. (Note that Plato's use of the term "spirited" here is not the same as "spiritual." He means "spirited" in the same sense that we speak of a high-spirited horse, for example, one with lots of energy and power.) This element of the soul is represented by the noble white horse on the right.

The mind (nous), our conscious awareness, is represented by the charioteer who is guiding (or who at least should be guiding) the horses and chariot. This is the part of us that thinks, analyzes, looks ahead, rationally weighs options, and tries to gauge what is best and truest overall.

If true, there is no I, no inner unity. The source of decision or the feeling of I can arise from anywhere within the tripartite soul.

Plato is most likely correct, however considering appetite/emotion/thought are interwoven to such an extend It would not be wise to argue a complete seperation due to the fact they are constantly "joining" to eachother.

[Impenitent]

You're confusing growin' up, growin' old (accreting experience, becoming more complex) with wholesale transformation or metamorphosis.

I 'am' as I was at age five: I just 'know', have experienced, a helluva lot more (resulting in the complex, nuanced 'me' of today).

The Oak 'is' the acorn.

are you certain that every cell in your body at age 5 is present now?

your skin says otherwise

-Imp

[henry quirk]

...multiple times, but the 'action' of those cells (that 'action' being 'me') is the same.

I, as the action of a particular and peculiar arrangemrnt of matter, persist, no matter how many times the matter is replenished or renewed.

I'm Theseus's ship, replaced bit by bit over time, but remaining *Theseus's ship.









*'cept I'm not a ship and Theseus can go fuck himself: I belong to me.

[Immanuel Can]

...multiple times, but the 'action' of those cells (that 'action' being 'me') is the same.

I, as the action of a particular and peculiar arrangemrnt of matter, persist, no matter how many times the matter is replenished or renewed.

I'm Theseus's ship, replaced bit by bit over time, but remaining *Theseus's ship.

*'cept I'm not a ship and Theseus can go fuck himself: I belong to me.

Aw, darn it Henry...I kind of liked you the way you were.

[Impenitent]

...multiple times, but the 'action' of those cells (that 'action' being 'me') is the same.

I, as the action of a particular and peculiar arrangemrnt of matter, persist, no matter how many times the matter is replenished or renewed.

I'm Theseus's ship, replaced bit by bit over time, but remaining *Theseus's ship.









*'cept I'm not a ship and Theseus can go fuck himself: I belong to me.

the "I am" at age 5 or the "more experienced me" of today?

you are not the same as you were, as you admit

your confusion is with the self-referential pronoun... the self to which it refers is never the same

Theseus' ship floats on Heraclitus' river...

-Imp