Anyone else think gods/God is something your brain does?

[Interjectivist]

I mean, how exactly our electro-chemical meat brains produce our sense of identity and constancy is itself a mystery. Many people claim to commune with God in prayer. Many feel a strong sense of that Other in such moments. Who am I to say they don't? However, I find it most economical to suppose that the God encountered is something produced where it is encountered, in our minds. That isn't to say I think theists are just making this stuff up, for I don't think it is something done consciously. But just as our conscious selves are not something we ourselves are 'just making up', the brain/mind's production of an on-board 'god' is not something believers are just making up.

There are many parts of our subjective landscape which are givens, features encountered rather than deliberately constructed. Much of work of producing our subjective landscape is preconsciousness. We can't really take credit for it. I suspect a relationship to God is something a brain/mind can be cultivated to produce, as it is by cohesive societies and in child rearing. Personally I don't feel qualified to opine on how our brains should be programmed and so am unwilling to fault believers for passing on their religious culture. It isn't a lie, is merely something extra which the brain seems able and willing to do.

I will opine that to the degree that a person can be brought to understand that the god they believe in is on-board (but still very real as such), the better. Beliefs regarding cosmic creation and after-lives lead to cognitive dissonance, preventing some people from engaging fully as modern human being.

[Lacewing]

Very interesting. I can see the logic in what you've said. I do tend to be one who often says that we make up most of this... but I can see how things are made up for us and programmed into us, and we can't really blame ourselves for that. As you said, it's "something extra which the brain seems able and willing to do."

And the brain does seem able and willing to do all sorts of fantastical things, doesn't it? Amazing, really! If we could eliminate our intoxication with what we think and believe, we could surely be much more broadly aware and effective from moment to moment. Then we could be happy social "thinkers" rather than having a "thinking" problem.

[Interjectivist]

That was remarkably easy. I usually post on an atheist forum and no one has ever seemed to 'get' what you took in so easily, Lacewing. This could be fun.

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy? I'm not someone who knows much scripture. So I never get into that stuff.

While my father was a very literal believer, he was in the navy and away too often to successfully implant a god program in my brain. There had been a start but we stopped going to church early on in elementary school. Like so many, by late elementary school I had doubts and by middle schools it was all moot.

[HexHammer]

1) our brains ain't meat, but fat.

2) when prophets are correct like 80% of the time, people start to believe.

3) The Prophecy of the Popes are too accurate to be mere random nonsense and babble, specially at the end. Just read the last 10 popes and see the accuracy is spot on. The Vatican has tried to elect popes that didn't fit the prophecy but each time, it was spot on. The Vatican knows the muslim prophecy foretells that Jesus when he returns, will "break the cross", undo the Vatican.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

[Interjectivist]

1) our brains ain't meat, but fat.

2) when prophets are correct like 80% of the time, people start to believe.

3) The Prophecy of the Popes are too accurate to be mere random nonsense and babble, specially at the end. Just read the last 10 popes and see the accuracy is spot on. The Vatican has tried to elect popes that didn't fit the prophecy but each time, it was spot on. The Vatican knows the muslim prophecy foretells that Jesus when he returns, will "break the cross", undo the Vatican.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Are you trolling me? The "brains ain't meat" was a general wave at my post but shows no insight. I don't give a fig about prophets or popes. Why don't you go find someone who wants to talk nonsense with you. Bye bye now.

[HexHammer]

Are you trolling me? The "brains ain't meat" was a general wave at my post but shows no insight. I don't give a fig about prophets or popes. Why don't you go find someone who wants to talk nonsense with you. Bye bye now.

You need to specify how prophecies are nonsense when they for the most time are correct?

If you say that brain is meat, only show you have no clue about the scientific approach.

[Interjectivist]

Are you trolling me? The "brains ain't meat" was a general wave at my post but shows no insight. I don't give a fig about prophets or popes. Why don't you go find someone who wants to talk nonsense with you. Bye bye now.

You need to specify how prophecies are nonsense when they for the most time are correct?

Tell you what, you go start a thread about that and if that ever becomes something I care about, I'll be sure to post on it. But of course that isn't relevant to this thread.

If you say that brain is meat, only show you have no clue about the scientific approach.

Well there you go. No need talking any more to a dumbass like me, right? Off you go now.

[Lacewing]

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy?

Only in that much of my childhood was spent in a very religious (church 3 times a week) environment which instinctively didn't feel natural or true to me -- and now (years later) to my surprise I find myself exploring and reconciling that on this forum, where I get to playfully and pointedly respond to theism from a completely different perspective, informed by the range of other journeys/realizations I've had in my life.

I'm not someone who knows much scripture. So I never get into that stuff.

I see scriptures as man-made stories created for various purposes during a certain period in history. There's just always so much unfolding anew in front of us in the present moment... informing us if we attune to it. Thoughtful stories from any perspective can be inspiring... but static belief systems make no sense to me.

What does make sense to me is that everything is connected like a network, and information is exchanged (and available) on so many levels -- just like we see in nature. But for some reason we tend to think of ourselves as separate from that... and we don't seem to ponder the implications of such connectivity that is surely influencing and available to us... just like everything else in nature senses and responds and cooperates with so many different elements. And those are just the ones we can see and measure! What about all the undercurrents and unseen frequencies?

Maybe when our brains move on from "doing gods", we'll discover how intertwined we are in nature's vast realms, and that will be so far beyond anything theists have ever imagined.

[HexHammer]

Are you trolling me? The "brains ain't meat" was a general wave at my post but shows no insight. I don't give a fig about prophets or popes. Why don't you go find someone who wants to talk nonsense with you. Bye bye now.

You need to specify how prophecies are nonsense when they for the most time are correct?

Tell you what, you go start a thread about that and if that ever becomes something I care about, I'll be sure to post on it. But of course that isn't relevant to this thread.

If you say that brain is meat, only show you have no clue about the scientific approach.

Well there you go. No need talking any more to a dumbass like me, right? Off you go now.

So you are like the others that totally lack mental aptitude to reason why they think this and that, but that's ok.

[Interjectivist]

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy?

Only in that much of my childhood was spent in a very religious (church 3 times a week) environment which instinctively didn't feel natural or true to me -- and now (years later) to my surprise I find myself exploring and reconciling that on this forum, where I get to playfully and pointedly respond to theism from a completely different perspective, informed by the range of other journeys/realizations I've had in my life.

Makes sense. I've known lots of online atheists and most go through more personal grief than I did to leave their religion. Young ones get thrown out of their homes and all can be shunned at any age by a family, a church or their entire community. I imagine the sense of betrayal and abandonment must be a lot to deal with.

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy?

I'm not someone who knows much scripture. So I never get into that stuff.

I see scriptures as man-made stories created for various purposes during a certain period in history. There's just always so much unfolding anew in front of us in the present moment... informing us if we attune to it. Thoughtful stories from any perspective can be inspiring... but static belief systems make no sense to me.

That sounds about right (my bolded). But it seems to be true that in general atheists know the bible better than believers. Most read and reread it like demons trying to find a way to keep belief going.

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy?

What does make sense to me is that everything is connected like a network, and information is exchanged (and available) on so many levels -- just like we see in nature. But for some reason we tend to think of ourselves as separate from that [?*]... and we don't seem to ponder the implications of such connectivity that is surely influencing and available to us... just like everything else in nature senses and responds and cooperates with so many different elements. And those are just the ones we can see and measure! What about all the undercurrents and unseen frequencies?[?**]

[?*] You mean nature? I definitely celebrate my animal nature. Xtians especially often speak of nature as something low and horrible. I don't agree.

[?**] Would be interested if you felt like expanding on the part I bolded. Just as you can do imagine with light beams or x-rays or gamma rays, etc, I think of the senses as rendering the real world in various ways. But of course it is the one real world that gets rendered.

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy?

Maybe when our brains move on from "doing gods", we'll discover how intertwined we are in nature's vast realms, and that will be so far beyond anything theists have ever imagined.

I'm a little less hopeful about the prospects of getting beyond the influence of religion. I prefer to emphasize improving theology over eliminating it. The biggest mistake, to my way of thinking, is to take the bible so literally. Obviously the idea of a creator for the physical world and an afterlife are non-starters. You can't keep those and step fully into the modern world. But one can read the bible allegorically to leave those behind. Possibly, scaled down, some sort of god belief could be no handicap and preferred by some?

[HexHammer]

Do you have a special interest in religious philosophy?

Only in that much of my childhood was spent in a very religious (church 3 times a week) environment which instinctively didn't feel natural or true to me -- and now (years later) to my surprise I find myself exploring and reconciling that on this forum, where I get to playfully and pointedly respond to theism from a completely different perspective, informed by the range of other journeys/realizations I've had in my life.

I'm not someone who knows much scripture. So I never get into that stuff.

I see scriptures as man-made stories created for various purposes during a certain period in history. There's just always so much unfolding anew in front of us in the present moment... informing us if we attune to it. Thoughtful stories from any perspective can be inspiring... but static belief systems make no sense to me.

What does make sense to me is that everything is connected like a network, and information is exchanged (and available) on so many levels -- just like we see in nature. But for some reason we tend to think of ourselves as separate from that... and we don't seem to ponder the implications of such connectivity that is surely influencing and available to us... just like everything else in nature senses and responds and cooperates with so many different elements. And those are just the ones we can see and measure! What about all the undercurrents and unseen frequencies?

Maybe when our brains move on from "doing gods", we'll discover how intertwined we are in nature's vast realms, and that will be so far beyond anything theists have ever imagined.

So even when ms Tree tries her best to say something intelligent s/he falls flat on his face!

The argumentation is as bad as saying all men are stupid, well it's a statement that has some credibility to it, but then again, it's a sweeping statement and a too generalized assertion without the critical view on the topic, nuancing why and how they are stupid, and in which situations.
Therefore no matter how much ms Tree argue and argue it's to no avail if the starting point of her arguments are wrong.

Interjectivist engages in a cozy chat, and doesn't bring any real philosophy to the table, only points of views from a selfish perspective. So when I tried to engage in an intelligent conversation with him, he couldn't even cross the starting line, and couldn't refude my claims in even a basic intelligent way.

I wish we could make a section where cozy chatter could have their navel gazing way and sit and babble and rave all day and all night.

[Harbal]

The argumentation is as bad as saying all men are stupid,

Wasn't it you that said we are all fat heads?

Interjectivist engages in a cozy chat, and doesn't bring any real philosophy to the table

You are always complaining about the threads where "cozy chats" are going on yet you seem to go out of your way to seek them out. Are you some kind of masochist?

[Walker]

1) our brains ain't meat, but fat.

2) when prophets are correct like 80% of the time, people start to believe.

3) The Prophecy of the Popes are too accurate to be mere random nonsense and babble, specially at the end. Just read the last 10 popes and see the accuracy is spot on. The Vatican has tried to elect popes that didn't fit the prophecy but each time, it was spot on. The Vatican knows the muslim prophecy foretells that Jesus when he returns, will "break the cross", undo the Vatican.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Interesting.

If I read you right, then what you’re saying is along the lines of:
Stuff gets stored in fat, however that’s irrelevant to prophecy.
Fat may have other unique qualities,
such as functioning as a biological receiver
of ubiquitous consciousness
that goes unnoticed without the fatty brain as receiver,
much like earthcentric,
ubiquitous cell-phone signals
go unnoticed without an appropriate receiver.

80%? Probably depends on the prophet. Some are 0, for awhile. Then they’re prophets no more. Some are 100. It balances out.

Considering this from a broader perspective, everyone is a prophet. Some have more blockages of the evidence, and are distracted.

But Hex, rationally applying your fat theory of brain as receiver of consciousness, then rationally speaking, a prophecy must be a reception of consciousness unbound by the known boundaries of time.

The transmission is uniform, and if you're gonna insist that we're stardust then you may as well say that the transmission of all beingness originated from the big bang, which may or may not be truth. What varies is not the transmission but the reception. This means that mind, which can be defined as thinking within the context of any particular brain-wave state (no dualistic thinking, no mind) overlays a concept of time upon these independent-of-time receptions of thoughts known as prophecy. Mind serves to sort things out when it isn’t projecting its memories onto reality.

So from your observations I can see that obviously, all a prophet need do is discover detachment from time-bound preconceptions of what should be, get out of his own way so to speak, and pay attention to the incoming.

Don’t know a whole lot about popes, but after all, they have brains too.

[ken]

I mean, how exactly our electro-chemical meat brains produce our sense of identity and constancy is itself a mystery.

It may be a mystery to some people but not to all.

[HexHammer]

The argumentation is as bad as saying all men are stupid,

Wasn't it you that said we are all fat heads?

Interjectivist engages in a cozy chat, and doesn't bring any real philosophy to the table

You are always complaining about the threads where "cozy chats" are going on yet you seem to go out of your way to seek them out. Are you some kind of masochist?

Eeeeehhh?!?!?! ..............NO?!!!

Cozy chat is when only bringing personal bias, instead of objective information. Thing is the dude claimed to be a philosophy major, so I've waited to see what he would bring, but all he brings are cozy chat that only I could expect from small children, I try reason with him but he refuses to engage in a sound debate.

The Tree has viciously attacked me for almost a year and NEVER said anything intelligent, only conveyed cozy chat.