philosophers agree on anything?
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:50 pm
Is there anything ALL academically validated philosophers agree on? I used to think at least logic. But now I know about paraconsistent logic and Paul Feyerabend!
For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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The natural order is very real. 1 + 1 =2 everytime. Half of two groups of two (4/ 2) = 2. The sun "comes up in the east" and monkeys can only come from other monkeys. We are simply modeling this order with confused language whose very words are models of other concepts. We rail against reality itself rather than admit a deficiency in the language.Impenitent wrote:order is illusory
mathematics is a human constructioncladking wrote:The natural order is very real. 1 + 1 =2 everytime. Half of two groups of two (4/ 2) = 2. The sun "comes up in the east" and monkeys can only come from other monkeys. We are simply modeling this order with confused language whose very words are models of other concepts. We rail against reality itself rather than admit a deficiency in the language.Impenitent wrote:order is illusory
Yes. Very much. But it's still based on natural logic. To the degree 1 + 1 = 2 is a true statement it is because of the natural order of the universe. The natural order says two things are composed of the first thing and the second thing and we've merely taken this concept and used it for our own devices; literally, semantically, figuratively, linguistically, and metaphorically.Impenitent wrote:
mathematics is a human construction
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the entire universe is moving at the speed of light, the sun still appears to rise above the eastern horizon every morning, in every place, since man began observing it. This is part of the natural order just as plants seem to "know" their latitude and the season of the year. Salmon return to their "birth" place to reproduce and robins fly south for the winter. This is the way of nature and humanity is a thing of nature which has lost touch with the natural order.the sun doesn't move
We can see only aspects of reality and most of us see these aspects from a single perspective. To know something requires us to see it from the inside but even from this vantage we can't see it all. We see a spectrum of reality and mistake it for everything. We each see different parts of the spectra based on our knowledge and beliefs. When we describe what we see to others we are misunderstood. Philosophical ideas are even more difficult to put in words and far more likely to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Everything we say is deconstructed by the listener.the thing in itself can not be known nor entirely described
most?cladking wrote:Yes. Very much. But it's still based on natural logic. To the degree 1 + 1 = 2 is a true statement it is because of the natural order of the universe. The natural order says two things are composed of the first thing and the second thing and we've merely taken this concept and used it for our own devices; literally, semantically, figuratively, linguistically, and metaphorically.Impenitent wrote:
mathematics is a human construction
all these "natural" inventions are human constructions, nothing more
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the entire universe is moving at the speed of light, the sun still appears to rise above the eastern horizon every morning, in every place, since man began observing it. This is part of the natural order just as plants seem to "know" their latitude and the season of the year. Salmon return to their "birth" place to reproduce and robins fly south for the winter. This is the way of nature and humanity is a thing of nature which has lost touch with the natural order.the sun doesn't move
kill the weak is the natural order
We can see only aspects of reality and most of us see these aspects from a single perspective. To know something requires us to see it from the inside but even from this vantage we can't see it all. We see a spectrum of reality and mistake it for everything. We each see different parts of the spectra based on our knowledge and beliefs. When we describe what we see to others we are misunderstood. Philosophical ideas are even more difficult to put in words and far more likely to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Everything we say is deconstructed by the listener.the thing in itself can not be known nor entirely described
cladking wrote: When we describe what we see to others we are misunderstood. Philosophical ideas are even more difficult to put in words and far more likely to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Everything we say is deconstructed by the listener.
A_Seagull wrote:
And BTW: there is no such thing as 'natural' logic.
This is the way lions hunt wildebeasts. It has nothing else to do with nature.Impenitent wrote:
kill the weak is the natural order
Anyone can see something from another perspective with practice. You can see from other times, places, eyes, ears, or simply look from inside inanimate objects. When you play chess you project your thought into the future to achieve the best outcomes. You try to get to the green light while still moving. It's easier to console a child if you understand why he's upset. The hunter must be as smart as the prey in terms of that prey. We alldo it to a greater or lesser extent but most people aren't very good at it. We tend to see things from a single point of view that changes glacially.Most?
ummmm ...be the other... ummmmmcladking wrote:This is the way lions hunt wildebeasts. It has nothing else to do with nature.Impenitent wrote:
kill the weak is the natural order
thus spake Darwin
Most sick and injured wild animals die just as most seriously injured Civil War soldiers died.
Anyone can see something from another perspective with practice. You can see from other times, places, eyes, ears, or simply look from inside inanimate objects. When you play chess you project your thought into the future to achieve the best outcomes. You try to get to the green light while still moving. It's easier to console a child if you understand why he's upset. The hunter must be as smart as the prey in terms of that prey. We alldo it to a greater or lesser extent but most people aren't very good at it. We tend to see things from a single point of view that changes glacially.Most?
Not at all.cladking wrote:A_Seagull wrote:
And BTW: there is no such thing as 'natural' logic.
It seems there's only one alternative to believing in natural logic. Humans invented math out of thin air without even knowing that this math just happens to be able to describe the natural order. It can even be used to predict eclipses.
Your claim is tantamount to suggesting Man invented reality in His own image.