philosophers agree on anything?

[raw_thought]

Is there anything ALL academically validated philosophers agree on? I used to think at least logic. But now I know about paraconsistent logic and Paul Feyerabend!

[Risto]

Philosophers are interested in questions that don't have a method for answering. Wouldn't it be by definition that there would not be any philosophical dilemmas that have consensus? Wouldn't it go to science if philosophers decided a specific method could answer a specific question?

[cladking]

If you think you're in 100% agreement with someone on anything it's because you don't understand the terms or you just want to believe.

The above sentence was intended to have a single meaning but it has an infinite number of meanings and can be expressed in an infinite number of ways to express the intended meaning.

We speak confused languages that makes philosophical progress impossible until we redress the confusion. The confusion wasn't imposed by God but was the natural result of changing to language that didn't reflect the natural order. Language became too complex to reflect all knowledge because the total volume of knowledge became too great. It became a burden to most individuals. Now we only know what we're thinking and have no idea what the other guy is.

[Impenitent]

order is illusory

-Imp

[cladking]

order is illusory

The natural order is very real. 1 + 1 =2 everytime. Half of two groups of two (4/ 2) = 2. The sun "comes up in the east" and monkeys can only come from other monkeys. We are simply modeling this order with confused language whose very words are models of other concepts. We rail against reality itself rather than admit a deficiency in the language.

[Impenitent]

order is illusory

The natural order is very real. 1 + 1 =2 everytime. Half of two groups of two (4/ 2) = 2. The sun "comes up in the east" and monkeys can only come from other monkeys. We are simply modeling this order with confused language whose very words are models of other concepts. We rail against reality itself rather than admit a deficiency in the language.

mathematics is a human construction

the sun doesn't move

Davy Jones is smiling

the thing in itself can not be known nor entirely described

-Imp

[cladking]

mathematics is a human construction

Yes. Very much. But it's still based on natural logic. To the degree 1 + 1 = 2 is a true statement it is because of the natural order of the universe. The natural order says two things are composed of the first thing and the second thing and we've merely taken this concept and used it for our own devices; literally, semantically, figuratively, linguistically, and metaphorically.

the sun doesn't move

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the entire universe is moving at the speed of light, the sun still appears to rise above the eastern horizon every morning, in every place, since man began observing it. This is part of the natural order just as plants seem to "know" their latitude and the season of the year. Salmon return to their "birth" place to reproduce and robins fly south for the winter. This is the way of nature and humanity is a thing of nature which has lost touch with the natural order.

the thing in itself can not be known nor entirely described

We can see only aspects of reality and most of us see these aspects from a single perspective. To know something requires us to see it from the inside but even from this vantage we can't see it all. We see a spectrum of reality and mistake it for everything. We each see different parts of the spectra based on our knowledge and beliefs. When we describe what we see to others we are misunderstood. Philosophical ideas are even more difficult to put in words and far more likely to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Everything we say is deconstructed by the listener.

[Impenitent]

mathematics is a human construction

Yes. Very much. But it's still based on natural logic. To the degree 1 + 1 = 2 is a true statement it is because of the natural order of the universe. The natural order says two things are composed of the first thing and the second thing and we've merely taken this concept and used it for our own devices; literally, semantically, figuratively, linguistically, and metaphorically.

all these "natural" inventions are human constructions, nothing more

the sun doesn't move

It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the entire universe is moving at the speed of light, the sun still appears to rise above the eastern horizon every morning, in every place, since man began observing it. This is part of the natural order just as plants seem to "know" their latitude and the season of the year. Salmon return to their "birth" place to reproduce and robins fly south for the winter. This is the way of nature and humanity is a thing of nature which has lost touch with the natural order.

kill the weak is the natural order

the thing in itself can not be known nor entirely described

We can see only aspects of reality and most of us see these aspects from a single perspective. To know something requires us to see it from the inside but even from this vantage we can't see it all. We see a spectrum of reality and mistake it for everything. We each see different parts of the spectra based on our knowledge and beliefs. When we describe what we see to others we are misunderstood. Philosophical ideas are even more difficult to put in words and far more likely to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Everything we say is deconstructed by the listener.

most?

-Imp

[thedoc]

When we describe what we see to others we are misunderstood. Philosophical ideas are even more difficult to put in words and far more likely to be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Everything we say is deconstructed by the listener.

It's an ego thing.

[A_Seagull]

Perhaps philosophers can agree that they don't agree about anything?

And BTW: there is no such thing as 'natural' logic.

And the Sun does move... very fast in fact.. it orbits the centre of the Galaxy at about 200 kms per second.

[cladking]

And BTW: there is no such thing as 'natural' logic.

It seems there's only one alternative to believing in natural logic. Humans invented math out of thin air without even knowing that this math just happens to be able to describe the natural order. It can even be used to predict eclipses.

Your claim is tantamount to suggesting Man invented reality in His own image.

[cladking]

kill the weak is the natural order

This is the way lions hunt wildebeasts. It has nothing else to do with nature.

Most sick and injured wild animals die just as most seriously injured Civil War soldiers died.

Most?

Anyone can see something from another perspective with practice. You can see from other times, places, eyes, ears, or simply look from inside inanimate objects. When you play chess you project your thought into the future to achieve the best outcomes. You try to get to the green light while still moving. It's easier to console a child if you understand why he's upset. The hunter must be as smart as the prey in terms of that prey. We alldo it to a greater or lesser extent but most people aren't very good at it. We tend to see things from a single point of view that changes glacially.

[Impenitent]

kill the weak is the natural order

This is the way lions hunt wildebeasts. It has nothing else to do with nature.

thus spake Darwin

Most sick and injured wild animals die just as most seriously injured Civil War soldiers died.

Most?

Anyone can see something from another perspective with practice. You can see from other times, places, eyes, ears, or simply look from inside inanimate objects. When you play chess you project your thought into the future to achieve the best outcomes. You try to get to the green light while still moving. It's easier to console a child if you understand why he's upset. The hunter must be as smart as the prey in terms of that prey. We alldo it to a greater or lesser extent but most people aren't very good at it. We tend to see things from a single point of view that changes glacially.

ummmm ...be the other... ummmmm

never heard that new age profundity before

-Imp

[A_Seagull]

And BTW: there is no such thing as 'natural' logic.

It seems there's only one alternative to believing in natural logic. Humans invented math out of thin air without even knowing that this math just happens to be able to describe the natural order. It can even be used to predict eclipses.

Your claim is tantamount to suggesting Man invented reality in His own image.

Not at all.

Yes, humans invented maths from 'thin air' , well actually it is created from axioms which come from 'thin air'

And yes maths is highly effective at modelling various aspects of the 'natural world', but how is it decided which branch of mathematics can model which part of the 'natural world'?? for example the 'natural numbers' are effective for mapping onto apples but you wouldn't want to use differential calculus to model apples, and yet differential calculus is highly effective for calculating the velocity of rockets.

The point is that maths can only be applied to the natural world through a specific model or mapping which is not at all 'natural'.

[thedoc]

philosophers agree on anything?

What fun would that be, if they can keep disagreeing they can keep making money off the gullible public.