Opinions on salvation.

[Dalek Prime]

Serious question: How many people will end up in heaven? Less than in hell? More than? Equal parts? And would others from other sects agree with your estimation? I'd prefer serious religious scholars to answer this, if they would.

Here's an example opinion of what I'm searching for in an answer. Right or wrong, it's thought out.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions ... o_hell.htm

Thanks.

[thedoc]

Serious question: How many people will end up in heaven? Less than in hell? More than? Equal parts? And would others from other sects agree with your estimation? I'd prefer serious religious scholars to answer this, if they would.
Here's an example opinion of what I'm searching for in an answer. Right or wrong, it's thought out.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions ... o_hell.htm
Thanks.

Universalists believe that everyone will end up in heaven, I've not been there yet so I really can't answer. There are some people I'd rather not see in heaven, but that's just me, and I'm only human.

[Dalek Prime]

I'll have to look up Universalists. I don't know of them. I'm assuming that the "everyone" refers to the believers amongst them, and not truly everyone, yes?

Update: Seems to be very different types of Universalists.

[thedoc]

I'll have to look up Universalists. I don't know of them. I'm assuming that the "everyone" refers to the believers amongst them, and not truly everyone, yes?

I think they mean "everyone", not just believers. So if that's true, you're safe.

[Dalek Prime]

Am I correct in saying that there are Universalists in all religious branches, Doc? (Thanks, btw.)

[thedoc]

Am I correct in saying that there are Universalists in all religious branches, Doc? (Thanks, btw.)

Sorry, but I can only answer for the ones I am familiar with and that is limited, mostly to a few congregations of Lutherans. But there are a few Universalists within the Lutheran religion.

[thedoc]

Offhand I would guess that most members of most religions are quite exclusive in their beliefs. If you don't believe exactly as they do, you're condemned. I don't believe they are correct.

[Dalek Prime]

I'll have to look up Universalists. I don't know of them. I'm assuming that the "everyone" refers to the believers amongst them, and not truly everyone, yes?

I think they mean "everyone", not just believers. So if that's true, you're safe.

Well, that's a relief I'm trying for a majority opinion, though. I'm assuming that Universalism isn't widely accepted.

No worries Doc. Your answer does help inform. I didn't even know of Universalism until you brought it up.

[ReliStuPhD]

Serious question: How many people will end up in heaven? Less than in hell? More than? Equal parts? And would others from other sects agree with your estimation? I'd prefer serious religious scholars to answer this, if they would.

Here's an example opinion of what I'm searching for in an answer. Right or wrong, it's thought out.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/billions ... o_hell.htm

Thanks.

A few quick thoughts (I'll try to give an actual answer to the question tomorrow when I have more time):

First, that link is garbage. For starters, there are way too many contradictory statements and he/she appears to be entirely ignorant of the fact that we already know what the "crude death rate" in the world is: 7.81 per 1,000. His/her figure of 232,000 is way off. It's more like 150k.

As for "religion scholar," I think it depends on whether you're looking for someone based in the Humanities, like myself, or someone from a more confessional background (e.g. a theologian). A "scholar of religion" isn't typically going to adjudicate the sort of truth you're asking for here. The best we're likely to do (and I'll try to do this tomorrow) is rank traditions as a sort of comparative endeavor. Even then, it's difficult. For instance, how should we classify Origen, an early Christian thinker, who felt that all souls would be redeemed (including Satan), but whose views on this subject were declared heretical? It seems to me that the best we could do is to evaluate each tradition from the standpoint of what it holds to be orthodox with respect to this question then try to tease out the implications of such a position.

So anyway, I'll try to offer something a bit more robust tomorrow.

[Dalek Prime]

Yeah, the link was just a quick example. There seems to be a large number of opinions on the net, so I thought I'd ask here. You're time and effort is appreciated, RS. No rush. And thank you.

[thedoc]

I should point out that Universalism is not widely accepted in the mainstream churches, there the predominant belief is that you need to believe the dogma of the church or you are condemned. Recently a pastor admitted being a universalist, but this was in a small group setting, and she didn't make that statement in from of the whole congregation. Many years ago another pastor admitted it in private, but then added that if it was revealed to anyone else, he would deny it. It seemed that holding that belief was enough to get the pastor defrocked then. That seems to be lightening up but there is probably a lot of carryover, and in some churches being defrocked would still happen. I just wanted it to be clear that any statistics found online would probably be biased away from Universalism. I can personally relate to this feeling that you don't say everything you believe, even if just to avoid an argument. There is much of the Christian dogma that I rationalize, so that I can participate in the service without feeling guilty for not believing what everyone else does. Even in my congregation there are a few hard line literalists who would be quite offended if I were to state openly that I see the Bible as mythology and not to be read as history or science.

[Dalek Prime]

Thanks Doc and RS. With so many opinions on it, I'm not so sure I can tease an average estimate out of it, even taking only orthodox views, and should probably drop it as unproductive. I appreciate both of you responding... Cheers.

[thedoc]

In our church there was a class on the 4 Gospels. It was emphasized that the 4 books were written at different times, by different authors, and aimed at different audiences, therefore each book had a different emphasis, and if you read closely there were apparent contradictions. But these contradictions went away when you considered the background of the different books.

[Dalek Prime]

What's the old saying? Three rabbis, four opinions.

[attofishpi]

Serious question: How many people will end up in heaven? Less than in hell? More than? Equal parts? And would others from other sects agree with your estimation? I'd prefer serious religious scholars to answer this, if they would. Thanks.

We really are being very simple if we believe heaven or hell exists beyond existence of a material world here on Earth.