"conscience clause" and pharmacists

[Kayla]

ok so there are people who think that if it against a pharmacist's beliefs to dispense morning-after pill, they should not have to do so

similarly if birth control is against their beliefs, they should not have to dispense birth control

it logically follows that a Christian Scientist pharmacist should be allowed to dispense no medication at all, as doing so would be against their beliefs

am i missing anything?

[Skip]

am i missing anything?

Yes, the reason for somebody who is against medication taking four years post-BSc to study pharmacology.
The idea of pharmacists picking and choosing what to dispense would be downright silly, if it weren't so dangerous. Suppose the pharmacist believes vaccines are wasted on the old - or might harm babies? Suppose he believes analgesics are the devil's way of counteracting god's punishment? Or that people who practice "unnatural" sex ought not to be treated for AIDS?

What American doesn't need more of is bigoted nut-bars having the power to decide who gets what medicine !

[Impenitent]

am i missing anything?

Yes, the reason for somebody who is against medication taking four years post-BSc to study pharmacology.
The idea of pharmacists picking and choosing what to dispense would be downright silly, if it weren't so dangerous. Suppose the pharmacist believes vaccines are wasted on the old - or might harm babies? Suppose he believes analgesics are the devil's way of counteracting god's punishment? Or that people who practice "unnatural" sex ought not to be treated for AIDS?

What American doesn't need more of is bigoted nut-bars having the power to decide who gets what medicine !

exactly. rejoice for obamacare and pray to your IRS masters who will decide for what medicine you qualify.

can you say 1861?

-Imp

[Arising_uk]

exactly. rejoice for obamacare and pray to your IRS masters who will decide for what medicine you qualify

But you can still pay for it if you want. Are you saying they should supply everything?

[Kayla]

yes i was being silly with the example of a christian scientist pharmacist refusing to dispense any medication

but plenty of people think that pharmacists should be able to pick and choose what they dispense based on religious beliefs - so Catholics would not dispense birth control, Catholics and baptists would not dispense morning after pill, scientologists would not dispense antidepressants and so forth.

And if we accept that, what reason is there not to accept the christian scientist pharmacist position? where would we draw the line?

[Impenitent]

exactly. rejoice for obamacare and pray to your IRS masters who will decide for what medicine you qualify

But you can still pay for it if you want. Are you saying they should supply everything?

they should supply nothing

the government has no business interfering between my doctor and myself

-Imp

[Arising_uk]

they should supply nothing

the government has no business interfering between my doctor and myself

-Imp

And yet you're happy with the insurance companies and the the pharma/chem companies doing just such things?

[henry quirk]

I own and run business X.

As the owner and operator of X: I decide how my business will run.

If I choose to not sell product Z: that's my choice.

If you want product Z, and I don't sell product Z: take your money elsewhere.

It ain't rocket science.

[henry quirk]

"you're happy with the insurance companies and the the pharma/chem companies doing just such things?"

As one of the happily uninsured: on the rare occasion when I visit a doctor, the transaction is between (s)he and me only.

I get funny looks when I say I'm payin' for it (because there is no insurer to file with) but, generally, the doc's office staff is grateful (I get the bill, they get the money, no significant paperwork for any of us).

[Skip]

Who pays is beside the point: the client does, in any case - whether directly, through insurance premiums or through taxes.
This is about limits on the deciding power of pharmacists.

If you sell cleaning products and you consider one brand environmentally harmful and don't sell it, fine; your customers can buy it somewhere else. If you do carry such a product and it's banned, you're liable to fines and lawsuits. Nor can you legally refuse to serve Jewish customers, or make Black people go to the back door, or sell hazardous substances to children. Still, you're only answerable to the law.

If you sell health care, that's a little more complicated. You're still answerable to the law, but also to the licensing board of your college. Medical and para-medical professionals must meet a standard of proficiency and ethics. A physician's job is to prescribe the medication he or she considers most appropriate to the treatment of each patient. A pharmacist's job is to dispense the medication as prescribed, plus warn the patient of any side-effects, drug interactions or food incompatibilities. Period. If he fails in that task, for whatever reason, his license should be revoked.

If he disagrees with a doctor's prescribing habits, he can take it up with the doctor, not out on the patient.
He's not behind that counter to save souls or visit judgment upon the wicked. He can do that in his lay-preacher costume outside working hours.

[henry quirk]

Skip, as I see it, "the law is a ass—a idiot."

More accurately: lawmakers are asses and idiots.

As a business owner and operator: I've turned away a number of potential clients, for a variety of reasons.

I'm probably in violation of some law.

Let those who can prosecute me if they like.

Till then: pffftt!

Again...


I own and run business X.

As the owner and operator of X: I decide how my business will run.

If I choose to not sell product Z: that's my choice.

If you want product Z, and I don't sell product Z: take your money elsewhere.


If I (as a baker) refuse to sell pastries to a fat man, or, (as a pharmacist) refuse to sell birth control (pro- or retro-active) to a woman, it's my choice and 'regulation' (and 'regulators') be damned.

#

"He's not behind that counter to save souls or visit judgment upon the wicked."

His reasons for not selling are irrelevant; that the business is 'his' is.

[henry quirk]

HA!

Only applicable to those who pay 'em.

[Skip]

I own and run business X.

Bully for you!
But if you sell spoiled food or refuse to serve minorities or block the fire exit or deal in banned substances or hire under-age employees or operate unlicensed machinery or buy stolen merchandise, the law will shut your business down. Just as it would stop whoever tried to cheat, break into, sabotage, steal, poison, obstruct, extort or burn down your business.

The law may be an idiot a lot of the time, but it's our idiot. If we want it to be smarter, we need to educate it.

[henry quirk]

"if you sell spoiled food or refuse to serve minorities or block the fire exit or deal in banned substances or hire under-age employees or operate unlicensed machinery or buy stolen merchandise, the law will shut your business down"

HA!

The ideal you describe has very little to do with what actually goes on.

#

"Just as it would stop whoever tried to cheat, break into, sabotage, steal, poison, obstruct, extort or burn down your business."

Ditto.

#

Back on track...

The pharmacist won't sell you birth control.

I say, take your money and go elsewhere.

Why am I wrong?

[SpheresOfBalance]

ok so there are people who think that if it against a pharmacist's beliefs to dispense morning-after pill, they should not have to do so

similarly if birth control is against their beliefs, they should not have to dispense birth control

it logically follows that a Christian Scientist pharmacist should be allowed to dispense no medication at all, as doing so would be against their beliefs

am i missing anything?

People believe all kinds of crap, but that has nothing to do with their job. They should know what they're getting into before accepting the job, such that they agree with the job, when they accept it. If they find that after accepting, they disagree, they should find another job. Why does everyone want to play god, they should leave it to god, that's his job, not theirs! If they're hearing voices in their heads, it's called schizophrenia, and they need to get a prescription for Clozapine or something similar.