Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:35 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:33 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:30 pm

Unlike you, I couldn't care less who believes what.

Why are you lying?

Why are you still running round in circles? going nowhere. Oh come on now, why doesn't anyone believe Skepdick? Please someone just believe him.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:35 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:32 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:31 pm

What does that have to do with the OP?

Well, if I could be lying about being a policeman - he could be lying about being anti-gun.

If someone intentionally deceives you by presenting arguments he doesn’t believe, does that affect the validity of his arguments?

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:44 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:35 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:32 pm
Well, if I could be lying about being a policeman - he could be lying about being anti-gun.

If someone intentionally deceives you by presenting arguments he doesn’t believe, does that affect the validity of his arguments?

I don't recall presenting any arguments. I have given my opinion that allowing the general public to own guns seems insane to me. Maybe it's appropriate in some countries, I really don't know, but it isn't appropriate in my country.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:47 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:44 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:35 pm

If someone intentionally deceives you by presenting arguments he doesn’t believe, does that affect the validity of his arguments?

I don't recall presenting any arguments. I have given my opinion that allowing the general public to own guns seems insane to me. Maybe it's appropriate in some countries, I really don't know, but it isn't appropriate in my country.

Oops! I was conflating opinions with arguments.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:42 pm A lie is an intentional deception. I have no access to intentions other than my own. I take words at face value. I accept statements made by other people for what they are .

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:49 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:42 pm A lie is an intentional deception. I have no access to intentions other than my own. I take words at face value. I accept statements made by other people for what they are .

If somebody chooses to believe what they have no good reason to believe they are intentionally deceiving themselves.

It fits the bill for lying.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:33 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 6:19 pm

You are missing the point as usual because you are actually quite dumb and stupid.

Supposing your child, soon to be children choose for themselves not to own a gun to protect themself against any potential harm that may or may not encounter in their life. Assuming you are not going to FORCE them to own a gun.

Then one day, your child, teenager, or grown up adult, are out and about on their own, and become the victim of a gunman on the loose, who then murders them by shooting them dead. Where were you to protect them from harms way in that unfortunate incident? ...Surely you are not going to tell me that you and your child, teenager, grown up adult are permanently conjoined at the hip now are you?

Still awaiting a response.

You can run from the truth, but you can never hide from it Skepdick.

I don't understand why you need me to answer that question.

Suppose you go out and about tomorrow and some Allah Snackbar chases you down with a machete - what's your plan?

If you can stop him - you will.
If you can't - you'll die, your friends and family will mourn you and that's the end of it.

Choices. Consequences. The end.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:50 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:49 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:42 pm A lie is an intentional deception. I have no access to intentions other than my own. I take words at face value. I accept statements made by other people for what they are .

If somebody chooses to believe what they have no good reason to believe they are intentionally deceiving themselves.

It fits the bill for lying.

You cannot lie to yourself.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:52 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:38 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:33 pm

Still awaiting a response.

You can run from the truth, but you can never hide from it Skepdick.

I don't understand why you need me to answer that question.

Suppose you go out and about tomorrow and some Allah Snackbar chases you down with a machete - what's your plan?

If you can stop him - you will.
If you can't - you'll die, your friends and family will mourn you and that's the end of it.

Choices. Consequences. The end.

Yes that’s right.

That could happen to anyone, including your own offspring. How would that be keeping your own offspring out of harms way?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:54 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:52 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:38 pm
I don't understand why you need me to answer that question.

Suppose you go out and about tomorrow and some Allah Snackbar chases you down with a machete - what's your plan?

If you can stop him - you will.
If you can't - you'll die, your friends and family will mourn you and that's the end of it.

Choices. Consequences. The end.

Yes that’s right.

That could happen to anyone, including your own offspring. How would that be keeping your own offspring out of harms way?

Yes it can. Me and you included.

If it happens to somebody with the mindset, means and luck to stop it - they are less likely to die.
If it happens to somebody without the mindset, means and luck to stop it - they are more likely to die.

One of those choices seems better.

What's confusing you?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:59 pm How can you keep your offspring out of harms way…surely that’s their job not yours?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:52 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:50 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:49 pm
If somebody chooses to believe what they have no good reason to believe they are intentionally deceiving themselves.

It fits the bill for lying.

You cannot lie to yourself.

Of course you can. Self-deception is still deception.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:07 pm So you can think something is false that you know is true, right?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:49 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:42 pm A lie is an intentional deception. I have no access to intentions other than my own. I take words at face value. I accept statements made by other people for what they are .

If somebody chooses to believe what they have no good reason to believe then they are intentionally deceiving themselves.

It fits the bill for lying.

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 10:10 pm

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:49 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2023 9:42 pm A lie is an intentional deception. I have no access to intentions other than my own. I take words at face value. I accept statements made by other people for what they are .

If somebody chooses to believe what they have no good reason to believe then they are intentionally deceiving themselves.

It fits the bill for lying.

But it’s not possible.