Why do guys who dress as girls get so much hate but not the other way around?

[Age]

Men get a sexual kick out of it and they get to bully and intimidate women at the same time.

LOL CLAIMING that ALL 'men' get 'this' could NOT BE MORE IRRATIONAL and False.

Clueless handmaidens like the OP author are enabling and encouraging them via sites like Tik Tok. Men who publicly display their autogynaephilia are now lauded as 'stunning and brave' and treated like heroes. No wonder they a slithering out from under their slimy rocks like an invasion of ants in the kitchen.
You are correct in your point re 'default human'. It's a case of 'Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are'.
Well they can go fuck themselves.

[Age]

So I am a girl and I have a number three brush cut and dress like a guy. This sometimes confuses people who are not sure if I am a guy or a girl, and sometimes they act weird about it, and say I would like a lot prettier with longer hair and so forth.

But guys who have long hair and dress like girls get serious hate - i.e. the kind of hate that can get your face stomped on late at night (or even not so late) if you are not careful.

Why is this?

Maybe it's partly because men are like 50% stronger physically, it would be unmanly for them to treat men and women equally. A woman can mess around and even dress like a man and that's fine, but for a man to dress up and act like a woman when he is still a physically inherently stronger man, is absolutely not fine. Men are expected to behave.

'Men's clothes' are basically just neutral clothes that anyone can wear.

When you say 'basically, here, what is the 'actual' difference, EXACTLY?

I haven't seen any women walking around the streets in tuxedos or suits and ties, but they would need to get them custom made to fit and I doubt if any women could be bothered going to that much effort.

you REALLY do NOT 'see' MUCH. Or, AGAIN, you REALLY DO ONLY 'see' what you WANT TO SEE.

Also, WHY are you DOUBTING if ANY 'women' could be bothered doing 'that'?

What is YOUR DOUBT based UPON, EXACTLY? your OWN WANTING and/or DOING, ONLY?

Most men don't wear tuxedos or suits either-- and if they do it's only when they have to. What we are talking about are sex specific 'women's clothes' that give some men a sexual high when they wear them.
[/quote]

[Age]

Neither of the above are me saying those views are good to have, or correct to have, but I do think people have them, and I do think they're part of what makes it acceptable for women to dress like men but not the reverse.

That is probably at least part of what is going on. A woman dressing like a man doesn't break normality as much.

Also, male clothes are not as dependent on the wearer's particular body shape.

I'm not homophobic in the least, but I personally find it unsettling to see men dress like women. My girlfriend watches a show called Queer Eye from time to time, and there's a dude with a beard who wears dresses, and though I believe it is 100% his right to wear dresses and I would never want to take away that right, I feel a visceral discomfort seeing him. I won't pretend to know all the psychological factors about WHY I feel that way, but I imagine some combination of the above 2 takes, as well as other factors, go into it.

I occasionally visit an establishment that has staff and clientele that are highly tolerant of people dressing in a way unapproved by the GOP - so I get to see men wearing dresses. They often look ridiculous not because of anything inherently ridiculous in men wearing dresses, but because they do not know how to do it properly, how to pick a dress that goes with their body shape, that sort of thing. And being men, they are often not open to some friendly feedback.

What are you BASING this CLAIM ON, EXACTLY?

Have you EVER OFFERED so-called 'friendly feedback'?

But none of this explains that violent (literally) hate that dress-wearing men cause in some (by no means rare, unfortunately) men.

The REASON is VERY SIMPLE, REALLY.

[Age]

How stunning and brave: 'buttons on the left hand side' Can you even hear yourself?

I never claimed any kind of bravery on my part. But I see to have dislodged some deep-seated anger on your part.

you have used the 'men' word, and NOT in a 'disparaging way', so this is what has DISLODGED "accelafine's" anger, here.

A workplace is a private environment of business. The owners can enforce whatever dress code they want. If it involves working with the public then attire should be neutral and not shoving any kind of politics or fetish in others' faces. You shouldn't be allowed to do that with workmates either--it's a form of bullying. They do it because they know they can get away with it. Everyone is running scared of these fascists in bad wigs and heels.

Never had customers complain about my attire. I had customers give me unsolicited advice about my attire and hair but they never took this up with management.

Why did you use the 'unsolicited' word, here?

It could come across as you were not open to the 'friendly feedback' from others.

I think the management is more concerned about me showing up on time and doing my job - and since my attire does not get in the way of either, it is not an issue, at least not as far as work is concerned.

[Age]

It would seem that she's gone from one cult straight into another one. Fairly standard.

I thought I banned you for seven days for your spittle-flecked attack on a new forum member? I must have hit the wrong button. Banning your now, come back in a week if you can behave.

Thank you Rick.

I posted what I thought was a pretty straightforward questions - and the hate I got - together with a lot of assumptions about what I believe - has been very weird.

If you thought the 'cult/ure' you were in before was 'bad' and you felt you had to 'run away', then the 'cult/ure' here can get worse. See, a lot of posters, here, think that it is perfectly fine, and normal, to ATTACK the 'person', "themself", with attempts of RIDICULE and/or HUMILIATION. 'They' do 'this' instead of 'attacking', countering or refuting, the 'idea', 'view', or 'belief'. Which is, EXACTLY, what is best done IN 'philosophical discussions'.

By the way I have NOT YET ANSWERED your QUESTION, here, as I am just waiting till I have read all of the replies.

[Age]

Where do you get your 'stats' from? I've been around a lot longer than you and I've never seen a man in a frock get his head bashed in. Perhaps you move in seedy circles. Besides, it's only one man bashing in another man's head. What's it to you? The man in the frock might be twice as strong as the one who isn't.

I mentioned no stats.

But I do occasionally visit an establishment where the clientele will often wear clothing that does not fit their apparent gender.

Its located in a shitty part of the city with low rent - and dress-wearing guys will try to park as close as possible to that establishment - or walk in a group - for safety reasons.

This, from everything I have heard and seen - is by no means rare. I do not now enough to say just how frequent or not frequent it is - I suppose it depends where you are.

Only just a few decades before this is being written, in some countries 'going out' to bash "gays" was done for 'fun', with led to the deaths of some. And 'this' was just because of 'the thoughts', within. If there were more in dresses, then there may well have been more DEATHS.

Which, going by 'the way' some speak and write, here, some of 'these posters', here WISH there were/are MORE DEATHS.

[Age]

Carlafeit,

Perhaps it would help us all out in this thread, if you outlined your vision of just how society should be. You might be surprised at the number of people with similar views, perhaps not, but we might get some clarification. Are you up to the task?

Lol. Less than two years ago I ran away from home (which was part of a fundamentalist Christian cult) as an 18th birthday gift to myself.

For about a year I have been working at a farm supply store on the other end of the country - because I need a job to survive and I know my farming and the Bible and I have half-decent people skills - all parts of my upbringing - and I do not want to work at a Christian book shop.

So I hope you have it in you to not be too harsh on me for not having come up with much in the way of detailed ideas of how society should be.

I mean, I think beating someone up because they are a guy dressed as a girl is a terrible reason for beating someone up. I would like to see a society where this doesn't happen. I mean, this should not happen even if the guy looks utterly ridiculous in a dress. Heck, not all girls look good in a dress - you need the right body type.

Also, I would like to see a society where fewer people believe that people from Haiti steal dogs and cats and eat them - the fact that half of my fellow citizens literally believe this scares me. More generally I would like to see more people in our society being able to recognize such claims for the horseshit that they obviously are.

Carla,
I sympathize with your wish for a better world, or that human nature was better.

Obviously 'this one' BELIEVES that it KNOWS what 'human nature' IS, EXACTLY. And, that 'the world' could NEVER BE A BETTER PLACE than what it is 'now', when this is being written.

The world we have, however, is the one we must live in and deal with.

What an ABSOLUTE Falsehood. AND, what an ABSOLUTE ATTEMPT AT 'TRYING TO' 'justify' the Wrong in 'the world'.

What 'this one' is more or less SAYING IS, you should NOT have 'run away' and you SHOULD HAVE just STAYED 'living' IN, and 'dealing' WITH, 'that world' and 'cult' that you WERE in.

See, it is the BELIEF that "popeye1945" just EXPRESSED, here, which GIVES 'them' "justification'" for their CONTINUED Wrong DOING and ABUSE UPON others.

In some places in the world, cats and dogs are eaten. In Asia, it is quite common. Not everyone has the same sensitivities, some countries believe that eating meat is barbaric.

In which countries do the people there BELIEVE that eating meat is barbaric?

I am sorry to hear you felt it necessary to leave home, that the environment was too restricted, which took some courage. So, you're a bit of a brave heart, you have a long journey before you, follow your heart, it's a brave one. Welcome to the forum.

Can you REALLY NOT SEE the CONTRADICTION, here, "popeye1945"?

[Age]

So I am a girl and I have a number three brush cut and dress like a guy.

1. What is a 'number three brush cut', EXACTLY?

That is the only one of your questions to which an exact answer is possible.

#3 brush cut is a haircut approximately 3/8 of an inch long. OK, that is not very exact, but that is about as exact as such things get.

2. What does the 'girl' word mean, and/or refer to, EXACTLY, besides of course the genitals on the human body only?

I don't think there is an exact definition. But if someone says "Looks at that girl over there" its usually not too difficult to identity the girl as opposed to the guys over there.

Okay, so if it is, supposedly, usually not to difficult to identify 'a girl' from 'a boy', which I think that is what you mean when you say 'guys', here, then why it is, supposedly, so hard to just express an 'exact definition' of some thing, which is, supposedly, not to difficult to identify?

Which, by the way, is EXACTLY WHY I SAID and WROTE, 'besides of course the genitals on the human body, only.

See, to me, besides the genitals, sexual organs, or breeding glands on the human body there is no other way to, ACTUALLY, distinguish 'males' from 'females'.

And, although plenty of people allude, or tell me, that there are obviously distinguishing features, NO one, as of so far, has been able to TELL me what 'they' are, EXACTLY.

3. How do 'guys' dress, EXACTLY?

Not like that:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/750271619200109151/

Do you think or believe that you would look 'uglier' with longer hair?

No, long hair just requires too much maintenance.

I just asked you because you seemed to be somewhat offended, or not liking it, when others say to you that you would look a lot prettier with longer hair. Now, 'this' might not be how you are/were 'feeling' when 'they' say things like that, but you also have A VIEW on 'pretty' AND 'ugly', right?. And, just like 'they' like to EXPRESS 'their VIEWS' from time-to-time, so do you, correct?

If yes, then WHEN IS THE 'right time' to EXPRESS 'our OWN PERSON VIEWS', and in regards to 'WHAT', EXACTLY, is one of the HARDEST things, which 'we' ALL NEED TO WORK OUT, and UNCOVER.

But, why not in the daytime?

It seems there is a lot more anti-social behavior at night, I am not sure why.

It happens more at night BECAUSE there are less people about and so it is less noticeable. Also, at night more people in some countries are more alcohol affected, which can bring out the rage, hatred, and anger that is built up within some.

I guess people are more likely to be drunk and not at work at night is part of it.

Yes.

[Alexis Jacobi]

So I am a girl and I have a number three brush cut and dress like a guy. This sometimes confuses people who are not sure if I am a guy or a girl, and sometimes they act weird about it, and say I would like a lot prettier with longer hair and so forth.

But guys who have long hair and dress like girls get serious hate - i.e. the kind of hate that can get your face stomped on late at night (or even not so late) if you are not careful.

Why is this?

I have the answer.

I am waiting for the moon to go into Gemini and then I will reveal all!

(I choose Gemini for its known ambiguity.)

[Age]

So I am a girl and I have a number three brush cut and dress like a guy. This sometimes confuses people who are not sure if I am a guy or a girl, and sometimes they act weird about it, and say I would like a lot prettier with longer hair and so forth.

But guys who have long hair and dress like girls get serious hate - i.e. the kind of hate that can get your face stomped on late at night (or even not so late) if you are not careful.

Why is this?

Now, as to WHY do guys who dress as girls get so much hate but not the other way around is because;

1. 'boys' were TAUGHT as 'men' you MUST BE big, strong, and/or tough, and this was because 'men' had to find and catch the food that needed hunting, and the dangers involved in this those who partook needed to bigger, stronger, and/or tougher. 'me' were also the main 'protectors' of and for the 'women' and children, so again being bigger, stronger, and/or tougher was needed. 'This idea, view, and/or belief' that 'men' MUST BE big, strong, and/or tough has 'carried on', hitherto when this is being written, by some but not all. Obviously, this idea, view, and belief is OUTDATED. AS NO one NEEDS TO BE big, strong, nor tough to go to the local supermarket to just buy things.

2. 'girls' were SEEN as NEEDING 'protection'. 'This idea AND view, STILL STANDS, in the days when this is being written.

Hitherto the days when this is being written 'men' HAD TO BE, relatively, big, strong, and tough TO HUNT, and TO PROTECT the 'girls'. But 'nowadays' 'men' only NEED TO PROTECT, and, OBVIOUSLY, ALL children NEED PROTECTING.

When 'boys' are being 'FORCED' to be some 'thing', which they are NOT, or do NOT WANT TO BE, then 'they' can NOT 'speak out', and thus can NOT 'be listened to, and heard', which PRODUCES built up frustration, which can then lead to ANGER, and HATRED. Which can come out in MANY DIFFERENT 'ways', and OVER MANY DIFFERENT 'things'. Also, when 'boys' start crying, which ALL children NATURALLY DO, but 'these boys' are living UNDER the CONTROL of 'those' who, STILL, have the BELIEF, view or idea, that 'boys' do NOT cry and/or that 'you' MUST BE big, strong, and/or tough, then, again, ANGER, and HATRED, can BUILT UP, and MUCH MORE SO. ALL of 'these boys' are ALSO being CONTINUALLY TAUGHT that 'girls' NEED PROTECTING.

So, WHEN one, who has 'built up' HATRED and HAS or is HOLDING the BELIEF that A 'man' SHOULD be big, strong, and/or tough, then when A 'man' or even a 'boy' is seen dressed up as A 'girl', who is SEEN/BELIEVED to be 'the one' NEEDING PROTECTING, then is WHY 'boys' and 'men' get SO MUCH HATE when 'they' dress as girls.

And, WHY there is NOT as MUCH HATE, when 'females' dress as 'males' is just because there is, 'nowadays, not as much EXPECTATION on 'girls' to BE or BECOME some 'thing'. There is NOT as MUCH BELIEF surrounding 'the idea or view' of HOW a 'girl' or 'women' SHOULD or MUST BE.

It is the BELIEF, WITHIN, which is what CAUSES the 'hate', the 'love', OR the 'like' or NOT, OF 'another'.

And, WHY it is that ANY one gets 'their face stomped on', as you call 'it', at ANY time, is, again, BECAUSE of the BELIEF, or VIEW, WITHIN, combined WITH the 'built up' ANGER, and HATRED, also WITHIN.

ALL of which, by the way, come FROM 'past experiences', hitherto.

It is HOW 'children' are 'brought up' and 'raised' WHY human beings get 'beaten up' AND ABUSED.

[Age]

So I am a girl and I have a number three brush cut and dress like a guy. This sometimes confuses people who are not sure if I am a guy or a girl, and sometimes they act weird about it, and say I would like a lot prettier with longer hair and so forth.

But guys who have long hair and dress like girls get serious hate - i.e. the kind of hate that can get your face stomped on late at night (or even not so late) if you are not careful.

Why is this?

I have the answer.

I am waiting for the moon to go into Gemini and then I will reveal all!

(I choose Gemini for its known ambiguity.)

When does the moon, so-call, go into gemini, roughly?

[Alexis Jacobi]

In just a few days, esteemed fellow forum member Age! The time for revelation is approaching.

(The moon is now in Aires and far too unambiguously masculine.)

However, if you-plural can keep to an even keel I might be persuaded to start even though it is astrologically disfavored.

[accelafine]

It would seem that she's gone from one cult straight into another one. Fairly standard.

I thought I banned you for seven days for your spittle-flecked attack on a new forum member? I must have hit the wrong button. Banning your now, come back in a week if you can behave.

Thank you Rick.

I posted what I thought was a pretty straightforward questions - and the hate I got - together with a lot of assumptions about what I believe - has been very weird.

Yet you specifically said in your OP that you wanted to 'trigger' people

[accelafine]

Where do you get your 'stats' from? I've been around a lot longer than you and I've never seen a man in a frock get his head bashed in. Perhaps you move in seedy circles. Besides, it's only one man bashing in another man's head. What's it to you? The man in the frock might be twice as strong as the one who isn't.

I mentioned no stats.

But I do occasionally visit an establishment where the clientele will often wear clothing that does not fit their apparent gender.

Its located in a shitty part of the city with low rent - and dress-wearing guys will try to park as close as possible to that establishment - or walk in a group - for safety reasons.

This, from everything I have heard and seen - is by no means rare. I do not now enough to say just how frequent or not frequent it is - I suppose it depends where you are.

Seems to me that there's a fairly easy remedy for this... There's also an old expression for what you describe: 'Men getting into bar fights with other men', and to quote our own dear Mr. Quirk.... 'meh'.
Btw, 'sex' isn't a naughty word. Americans are SO puritanical.

[Alexis Jacobi]

I grew up in a fundamentalist cult, very traditional — and girls and women are controlled a lot more than boys or men. That's very traditional.

Lutheran Evangelical Church by remote chance?

I have in just these last days been researching old family documents squirreled away by my great-grandfather related to the religious orientation of my own family (long long ago in Europe — we came to Paraguay in the early 1800s).

All deeply religious societies are “cults” when seen from modernity’s vistas.
__________

I just recalled what my own father used to say around the dining table (4 girls, 5 boys)

“Take care of the boys and the girls will take care of themselves.”

I did not quite understand what he meant till (relatively) recently.