For the discussion of all things philosophical.
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Ironic irony is ironic. Who is it obvious to?Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:30 am For example, it is obvious within the universe of the Sun there is no minds/consciousness in it
I think I'll have to disagree here. Standard MWI says that the worlds of the Many worlds are both connected and separate at the same time, it's a self-contradiction. They have to be connected in order to be counted as different branches of the same universal wavefunction. And after branching, they are separate branches that don't ever touch.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 7:19 amWhat he said isn't an inconsistency in mwi anyway, it's yet another of his own inventions about what he likes to imagine mwi says
The man said "Well, in order for that to take place, one would have to presume that all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in the completely separate universe in which Carroll's copy jumped to the left, would have somehow managed to stay in perfect synchronization with all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in this universe where Carroll jumped to the right."Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:17 pmI think I'll have to disagree here. Standard MWI says that the worlds of the Many worlds are both connected and separate at the same time, it's a self-contradiction. They have to be connected in order to be counted as different branches of the same universal wavefunction. And after branching, they are separate branches that don't ever touch.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 7:19 amWhat he said isn't an inconsistency in mwi anyway, it's yet another of his own inventions about what he likes to imagine mwi says
Where didn't it match what MWI peeps say?Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:20 pmThe man said "Well, in order for that to take place, one would have to presume that all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in the completely separate universe in which Carroll's copy jumped to the left, would have somehow managed to stay in perfect synchronization with all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in this universe where Carroll jumped to the right."Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:17 pmI think I'll have to disagree here. Standard MWI says that the worlds of the Many worlds are both connected and separate at the same time, it's a self-contradiction. They have to be connected in order to be counted as different branches of the same universal wavefunction. And after branching, they are separate branches that don't ever touch.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 7:19 am
What he said isn't an inconsistency in mwi anyway, it's yet another of his own inventions about what he likes to imagine mwi says
I don't think any of that matches what mwi peeps believe. Are you into mwi?
A "completely separate" universe which magically maintains perfect synchronicity - why is it "completely separate"? Says who?Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:37 pmWhere didn't it match what MWI peeps say?Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:20 pmThe man said "Well, in order for that to take place, one would have to presume that all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in the completely separate universe in which Carroll's copy jumped to the left, would have somehow managed to stay in perfect synchronization with all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in this universe where Carroll jumped to the right."Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:17 pm
I think I'll have to disagree here. Standard MWI says that the worlds of the Many worlds are both connected and separate at the same time, it's a self-contradiction. They have to be connected in order to be counted as different branches of the same universal wavefunction. And after branching, they are separate branches that don't ever touch.
I don't think any of that matches what mwi peeps believe. Are you into mwi?
I think Carroll said it too in some vid. The branches are completely separate after the branching, they don't ever interact.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:44 pmA "completely separate" universe which magically maintains perfect synchronicity - why is it "completely separate"? Says who?Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:37 pmWhere didn't it match what MWI peeps say?Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 2:20 pm
The man said "Well, in order for that to take place, one would have to presume that all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in the completely separate universe in which Carroll's copy jumped to the left, would have somehow managed to stay in perfect synchronization with all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in this universe where Carroll jumped to the right."
I don't think any of that matches what mwi peeps believe. Are you into mwi?
Many worlds isn't about completely separate universes, many worlds is about this universe.
The quote I quoted doesn't say completely separate after the branching, it's talking about them as if they're completely separate the whole time, even when they're exactly the same.
I don't know what you mean.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:01 pmThe quote I quoted doesn't say completely separate after the branching, it's talking about them as if they're completely separate the whole time, even when they're exactly the same.
You're talking about separate universes AFTER a split, he's talking about separate universes that are separate BEFORE a split.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:07 pmI don't know what you mean.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:01 pmThe quote I quoted doesn't say completely separate after the branching, it's talking about them as if they're completely separate the whole time, even when they're exactly the same.
No, if they were in perfect synchronization, then they were NOT separate.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:08 pmYou're talking about separate universes AFTER a split, he's talking about separate universes that are separate BEFORE a split.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:07 pmI don't know what you mean.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:01 pm
The quote I quoted doesn't say completely separate after the branching, it's talking about them as if they're completely separate the whole time, even when they're exactly the same.
"one would have to presume that all of the quantum phenomena and events that have taken place in the completely separate universe in which Carroll's copy jumped to the left, would have somehow managed to stay in perfect synchronization"
Do you see that?
And I would agree with that. But he wouldn't. His wording doesn't imply that. Which is why I said "I don't think any of that matches what mwi peeps believe." His wording implies they're separate even when they're identical, and that's not it.
No, imo he said that they were not separate before, and should remain not separate after. Which I agree with. Such temporal assymetry is an obvious inconsistency in MWI, but then again in all of physics.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:15 pmAnd I would agree with that. But he wouldn't. His wording doesn't imply that. Which is why I said "I don't think any of that matches what mwi peeps believe." His wording implies they're separate even when they're identical, and that's not it.
Okay, it honestly doesn't even seem like we're reading the same quote at this point. I don't think we can get anywhere.Atla wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:21 pmNo, imo he said that they were not separate before, and should remain not separate after. Which I agree with. Such temporal assymetry is an obvious inconsistency in MWI, but then again in all of physics.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:15 pmAnd I would agree with that. But he wouldn't. His wording doesn't imply that. Which is why I said "I don't think any of that matches what mwi peeps believe." His wording implies they're separate even when they're identical, and that's not it.
What?
A large number of this universe?many
/ˈmɛni/
determiner · adjective
a large number of.
That's another one of them... contradiction things.Flannel Jesus wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2024 3:15 pm His wording implies they're separate even when they're identical.