Philosophy Now Forum

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:37 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:35 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:32 am

You do realise that all kinds of women have abortions don't you? Even fine, upstanding, married kristian women. Again, it's none of your business. Keep abstaining for the rest of your life. That's the 'responsible' option, since 'no contraception is 100 percent reliable'. People are complex-- not black and white cardboard cutouts.

Killing people is everyone's business.

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:36 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:34 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:27 am

No, I didn't say that. My point is that I don't think abortion should be treated as murder. Not at that stage, anyway. Maybe not at all.

The solution, as I said earlier, is societal change, and instilling a sense of responsibility. It's no accident that our society is falling apart, when life is so cheap.

I'm confused. You say you don't think abortion is "murder" at that stage, which is what I was saying, but you aren't agreeing with what I was saying?

I actually said "treated as murder" which I hope you can appreciate a subtle difference about.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:37 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:35 am

Killing people is everyone's business.

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:36 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:34 am

I'm confused. You say you don't think abortion is "murder" at that stage, which is what I was saying, but you aren't agreeing with what I was saying?

I actually said "treated as murder" which I hope you can appreciate a subtle difference about.

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:37 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:35 am

Killing people is everyone's business.

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:39 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:37 am

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Bully for you. It's not exactly normal though.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:41 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:37 am

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:40 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:36 am

I actually said "treated as murder" which I hope you can appreciate a subtle difference about.

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:44 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:40 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:42 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:41 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:38 am

Which is purely my own choice.

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

No, of course not.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:50 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:42 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:41 am

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:45 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:44 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:40 am

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

Yes, I suppose so, but I'm not going to get into what they might be.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:53 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:50 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:42 am

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

Well, as I said, the problem is lack of responsibility in society. This needs to be tackled at an early age.

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:53 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:50 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:42 am

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

Well, as I said, the problem is lack of responsibility in society. This needs to be tackled at an early age.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:58 am

Maia wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:45 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:44 am

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

Yes, I suppose so, but I'm not going to get into what they might be.

Why would you not treat the "murder" of a fetus as harshly as the murder of a fully grown adult? I mean, they're both premeditated in a sense. I don't see how you can cut a distinction between the two. I thought it was all about the sanctity of human life? Is it therefore a little more "OK" to kill a fetus? I mean, my position is that it's not murder at all to kill a zygote or to end a pregnancy in the first trimester. If it were murder, then I would say, yes, it's wrong and should be treated as murder. So why treat an early abortion any different than if a mother killed her toddler? I don't understand what distinction you're drawing here.