how do we survive our soul crushing world?

[Maia]

You do realise that all kinds of women have abortions don't you? Even fine, upstanding, married kristian women. Again, it's none of your business. Keep abstaining for the rest of your life. That's the 'responsible' option, since 'no contraception is 100 percent reliable'. People are complex-- not black and white cardboard cutouts.

Killing people is everyone's business.

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

[Gary Childress]

No, I didn't say that. My point is that I don't think abortion should be treated as murder. Not at that stage, anyway. Maybe not at all.

The solution, as I said earlier, is societal change, and instilling a sense of responsibility. It's no accident that our society is falling apart, when life is so cheap.

I'm confused. You say you don't think abortion is "murder" at that stage, which is what I was saying, but you aren't agreeing with what I was saying?

I actually said "treated as murder" which I hope you can appreciate a subtle difference about.

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

Killing people is everyone's business.

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Bully for you. It's not exactly normal though.

[Maia]

I'm confused. You say you don't think abortion is "murder" at that stage, which is what I was saying, but you aren't agreeing with what I was saying?

I actually said "treated as murder" which I hope you can appreciate a subtle difference about.

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

[Gary Childress]

Killing people is everyone's business.

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

[Maia]

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Bully for you. It's not exactly normal though.

Normal is over rated.

[Maia]

Poor frustrated creature. Must be weird to be a virgin at your age.

Which is purely my own choice.

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

No, of course not.

[Gary Childress]

I actually said "treated as murder" which I hope you can appreciate a subtle difference about.

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

[Maia]

So it's not murder (unjustified killing) to end the life of a fetus?

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

Yes, I suppose so, but I'm not going to get into what they might be.

[Gary Childress]

Which is purely my own choice.

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

[Maia]

Do you think all women ought to behave the same way?

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

Well, as I said, the problem is lack of responsibility in society. This needs to be tackled at an early age.

[Gary Childress]

I think it is, indeed, murder, but that those who do it should be treated with leniency. Unless it's just an act of convenience for them.

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

Yes, I suppose so, but I'm not going to get into what they might be.

Why would you not treat the "murder" of a fetus as harshly as the murder of a fully grown adult? I mean, they're both premeditated in a sense. I don't see how you can cut a distinction between the two. I thought it was all about the sanctity of human life? Is it therefore a little more "OK" to kill a fetus? I mean, my position is that it's not murder at all to kill a zygote or to end a pregnancy in the first trimester. If it were murder, then I would say, yes, it's wrong and should be treated as murder. So why treat an early abortion any different than if a mother killed her toddler? I don't understand what distinction you're drawing here.

[Gary Childress]

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

Well, as I said, the problem is lack of responsibility in society. This needs to be tackled at an early age.

It's specifically lack of responsibility to accidentally get pregnant, is that correct? Or do you mean it's a "lack of responsibility" for women to enjoy their early stages of sexuality?

[vegetariantaxidermy]

No, of course not.

So you're ok with women enjoying their early sexuality to whatever extent so long as they don't get pregnant against their desires. Is that correct? However, if they do accidentally become pregnant, then they ought not "murder" their zygotes? Does that include teens as well? So a teenage girl in
school should carry through with her pregnancy rather than commit "murder". Is that correct?

Well, as I said, the problem is lack of responsibility in society. This needs to be tackled at an early age.

And how do you propose to 'tackle' that? Keep people in cages? Force them to wear chastity belts? How 'early' are you talking here? What would it involve? You clearly have never encountered horny teenagers, and you are also assuming that they are the only people who might require abortions.
'Lack of responsibility in society' is a very vague comment. What exactly does it mean?

[Maia]

What would constitute this "leniency"? Would it include certain penalties just not as severe?

Yes, I suppose so, but I'm not going to get into what they might be.

Why would you not treat the "murder" of a fetus as harshly as the murder of a fully grown adult? I mean, they're both premeditated in a sense. I don't see how you can cut a distinction between the two. I thought it was all about the sanctity of human life? Is it therefore a little more "OK" to kill a fetus? I mean, my position is that it's not murder at all to kill a zygote or to end a pregnancy in the first trimester. If it were murder, then I would say, yes, it's wrong and should be treated as murder. So why treat an early abortion any different than if a mother killed her toddler? I don't understand what distinction you're drawing here.

The legal system already takes into account other factors when punishing crime, including murder.