Philosophy Now Forum

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:00 pm RC,

After a mornin' of tradin' on the black & gray markets you come home to find your wife dead. Her throat is slashed open as is her belly. Your house is ransacked. It's obvious this ain't suicide.

What do you?

Blame free enterprise, and the failure of society under the capitalists

simplicity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:08 pm... the best system BY FAR is a representative democracy with several viable political parties.

Representative democracy is pehaps the Left's greatest achievment and has been opposed by conservatives the world over throughout history. The right is in the process of destroying it in the USA ("The Right Destroys EVERYTHING It Touches") :

The disgraced, twice-impeached former president lost his election battle, but his baseless complaints could help Georgia Republicans win their war against democracy in this rapidly diversifying and increasingly more liberal state.
https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... trictions/

uwot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:33 am

simplicity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:59 pmIn a FIAT system, creating inflation only benefits those who have initial access to the money...

Ah, so capitalism is a bad idea?

Inflation happens if more money is created than good and services produced. It is not exclusive to capitalism.

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:58 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:08 pm... the best system BY FAR is a representative democracy with several viable political parties.

Representative democracy is pehaps the Left's greatest achievment and has been opposed by conservatives the world over throughout history. The right is in the process of destroying it in the USA ("The Right Destroys EVERYTHING It Touches") :

You need to be able to speak of the left without bringing the right into it. The left's greatest achievement was the Soviet Union dissolving itself in 1991.

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:46 pm

mickthinks wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 5:58 pm

simplicity wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:08 pm... the best system BY FAR is a representative democracy with several viable political parties.

Representative democracy is pehaps the Left's greatest achievment and has been opposed by conservatives the world over throughout history. The right is in the process of destroying it in the USA ("The Right Destroys EVERYTHING It Touches") :

You need to be able to speak of the left without bringing the right into it. The left's greatest achievement was the Soviet Union dissolving itself in 1991.

But he's right, it was the left that fought for universal voting rights which is what makes representative democracy actually representative. You said that's the "best system BY FAR" and you ahve told uis what an a-political moderate you are, so you can give the left this win if you are honest.

simplicity wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:42 pm

uwot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:33 am

simplicity wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:59 pmIn a FIAT system, creating inflation only benefits those who have initial access to the money...

Ah, so capitalism is a bad idea?

Inflation happens if more money is created than good and services produced.

It is far more complicated than that.
Inflation can happen regarless of any creation of money.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:01 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:25 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:15 am the so-called "united states of america" is one of the biggest slave places on earth.

Nope. China is.

Did you REALLY MISS the 'one' word above?

Or, maybe you are just NOT YET able to comprehend the way I write.

No, I got it. To clarify: America is not one of the biggest slave places on Earth (cuz America isn't a slaver state).

LOL

Okay. If you say and BELIEVE so, then it MUST BE True, correct?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:01 pm China is one of the biggest slave places on earth (cuz China is a slaver state).

Okay, if you say so.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:35 pm WHERE have you, SUPPOSEDLY, done this?

I'm puttin' together a fully annotated directory of all relevant posts, just for you. Won't take long. You could hold your breath while waitin'.


WHY would you say such an OBVIOUSLY ABSURD and RIDICULOUS thing as, "Let's see what you would do".

That's what humans do. To work toward accord, or highlight difference. How do folks on your world do it?


ANOTHER ATTEMPT at DETRACTION and DEFLECTION.

Nah, just tryin' for acccord. Obviously, I get a big fat F on my Xeno-culture exam.


They be QUESTIONED OPENLY and Honestly, with ABSOLUTELY NO fear of punishment NOR judgement applied AT ALL, towards GAINING FULL UNDERSTANDING of WHY they did that.

Why did you kill that fine, upstandin' xeno?

Meh, it was sport.

Well, okay then you're free to go.


But I would NOT kill someone for no good reason.

Nether would I.


But WHY did I steal someone's computer?

I don't know, age: why would you steal someone's computer? What drove you to such depravity? Were you deprived as a child? Did mummy not treat you well? Tell me. I'm your friend. I want to help. What deep soul-void are you hopin' to fill thru thievery?


You could not 'try' to be MORE CONDESCENDING even if you wanted to be.

Wanna bet?

If you BELIEVE you can, then let us SEE it.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 2:01 pm Also, noted is that, unlike you, I actually ANSWER your QUESTIONS.

You've done your best, I'm sure.


Okay. But how will you KNOW which post I put them ALL in?

One thread labeled, Questions for Quirk ought to do it.


Also, what happens if I have clarifying questions AFTER that post? Will you address them as well?

Oh, sure. Just add 'em to the Questions for Quirk thread,


Furthermore, there are way to many clarifying questions that I KNOW you have NOT addressed to put in just one post.

Then you best get to postin'. Sounds like a major project.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm So, you WOULD deprive my life, liberty, or property over a coffee mug, correct?

You? Nah. I'd just slap you around a little.

I have asked you previously if you would kill your partner or child if they touched your toothpick, correct?

If yes, then what did you say you would do to people who touched your things, which included toothpicks?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm

If, at 3am, for example, you enter my home, without permission, I will assume you're up to no good.

WHY would you ASSUME such a thing?

Why else would wanna enter my home at 3am, without permission? Mebbe you're comin' for my mug: I already told ya no, age.

Or, maybe I came in for a VERY LEGITIMATE reason.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm Do you NOT have the ability to GAIN CLARIFICATION, BEFORE you MAKE AN ASSUMPTION?

Yeah,

So, WHY do you NOT use that ability, BEFORE you make ASSUMPTIONS, which OBVIOUSLY could be Wrong?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm you've never had a break in, right?

I do NOT class ANY thing as "my own" for a "break in" to occur.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm Okay. So, exactly as I said previously, this is EXACTLY what you would do, Which, by the way, you were CLAIMING, you did not.

It's not the same at all. In one, you have me shootin' folks, willy-nilly; in the other, I give you time to self-correct before I cut loose with buckshot.

But WHO said I was doing ANY thing Wrong?

REMEMBER, you make the ASSUMPTION, BEFORE you gain CLARITY.

Also, shooting other human beings dead for just "touching your stuff" is willy-nilly to some people.

Look, you can 'try to' DEFLECT until the day you die. But in "henry quirk's" world, if someone touches "henry's stuff", even if it is a toothpick, or they are standing in a building, which you claims "is yours", you BELIEVE you have the 'right' to forfeit that one's life, liberty, or property, in part or in whole. If this is NOT correct, then correct it.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm You BELIEVE that you have some sort of "right" to forfeit the life, liberty, or property of "others" when you see fit, JUST LIKE EVERY other human being BELIEVES they have the 'right' to do what they see is fit.

Nope. And you're usin' forfeit wrong.

If this is NOT what you BELIEVE, then what do you BELIEVE here? How can I be using 'forfeit' wrong? And, who do you use 'forfeit' here?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm The 'problem', or CONTRADICTION, here however is that you do NOT have 'right' to forfeit "another's" life, liberty, nor property just because you have made up your OWN (rule of) morality.

The problem here, your problem, is you think, or mebbe just feel, I'm supposed to value you more than I value my coffee mug. I don't.

I NEVER even thought such a thing, let alone felt it.

WHY did you make such a Wrong ASSUMPTION here?

What is appearing MORE OBVIOUS now to the readers is just HOW MUCH you will 'try to' DEFLECT when you can SEE just how CONTRADICTORY "henry's" little 'morality' REALLY IS.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm If a human's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property, then, in the days when this is being written, EVERY adult human beings life could be forfeited, in whole. That is; according to this so-called "logic" of yours here.

Nope. As aside, what does in part or whole mean to you?

It means, in part or wholly.

What does it mean, to you?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm Also, you have been and are continually depriving "others" of their life, liberty, and property, without just cause, so WHY do you NOT stop this "yourself".

The rumors of my moral violations are exaggerated...I wasn't there...I don't know nuthin' about no Maltese Falcon.

So, your "best defense" for the Wrong that you continually do is IGNORANCE.

Look, if you have 'morally violated', then you HAVE 'morally violated'. It REALLY is just that SIMPLE.

Now, either you HAVE, and you can be Honest about this, or you can BELIEVE you have NOT. The choice is yours.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm Furthermore, if you shoot me or ANY one "else" dead, just because we took a mug or just because we were standing in a building is NOT a just cause. So, according to your "logic" ANY one "else" could forfeit your life, in whole, and they would have "just cause", correct?

If I'm invited in, offered the mug as a gift, then I ought not be shot. If I break in, take the mug, then I ought be shot.

ONCE AGAIN, you are 'trying to' DEFLECT, or you are just MISSING the POINT.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:54 pm As aside: where do you hang your hat, age? I got Christmas shoppin' to do and, with your lax attitude about property, your place is soundin' pretty wal-mart right now.

Is it REALLY that hard for you to STAY FOCUSED on the Fact that you made up some "morality" or "moral rule", but which is FULL of flaws? As I have ALREADY SHOWN and POINTED OUT.

You can REFUSE to LOOK AT and/or SEE all of the flaws, but the readers are NOT and can SEE them CLEARLY.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:48 pm How did you ever get into a situation where someone was able to, "kill you for no good reason?" Your failure to protect yourself is at least half the problem.

Shit happens. Ain't nuthin' full-proof.


I have no idea what you think, "should happen," to the one who killed you, but I suspect it will some form of, "revenge," as though killing the killer would bring you back to life. Since when do two wrongs make a right?

He ought to die. Revenge, justice: call it what you like. Just a murder, no biggie, right?

Are you REALLY this BLIND?

Do you REALLY NOT YET UNDERSTAND that if 'an eye for eye' became law, then there would NOT be an adult human being left with an eye?

Do you REALLY NOT YET UNDERSTAND that if you shoot someone dead, just for touching your mug, then to "others" this is NOT a just cause, so then, to them and to your "logic", they then would have the right to take your life, in whole.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:48 pm And who decides it was, "for no good reason," just because you think you are not a threat to someone else? Most Christians who want to pass laws that will prevent others from living as they choose don't think they are a threat to others.

I gave the framework up-thread: tell me where it fails.

Your framework up-thread FAILS from START to FINISH.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:48 pm Take that up with the christians.


And when you decided, "what should be done," to someone who has killed you, who is going to do it?

My proxy.

LOL And then what, the proxy of the one your proxy did what you say "should be done" can then do to your proxy what that one says, "should be done" by ANOTHER proxy, and then so on, and so on, until there are NO more proxies left.

The ABSURDITY of this speaks for itself. I REALLY wonder if people like 'you', 'henry quirk", EVER wonder WHY 'you', human beings, are STILL fighting, hurting and killing each "other", in the days when this was written, through warring and revenge?

Do you EVER wonder this "henry quirk"? Or, do you NOT ever consider these things, and instead just prefer to stay focused on "protecting" "yourself" and "your stuff"?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:48 pm How about, just don't ever let yourself be killed by someone else for, "no good reason?" If you can't do that, perhaps you don't deserve to live. There is no principle that says you shouldy live, no matter what.

I'm tryin'. My failure to self-defend means I deserve to die? Yeah, there is.


Why is it, people who claim to love freedom cannot imagine being free without using threats of force against others, and being too cowardly to do it themselves, embrace some government proxy to do the forcing of others for them?

Cuz not everyone loves my freedom and life as much as I do. Come at me with ill intent, bub: I'll show you cowardice.

"henry quirk" are you AWARE that you are NOT going to live forever? Or, do you REALLY think or BELIEVE that you will?

Are you REALLY NOT YET AWARE that if someone entered that building, which you, inappropriately, call "yours", took your own gun off of you and shot you dead, then this might just be a WHOLE BETTER situation for you than the one that you are about to come into VERY SOON?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:48 pm I didn't bring up gov as the first on the list, go-to, necessity.

Mebbe you wanna read my posts again.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:00 pm RC,

After a mornin' of tradin' on the black & gray markets you come home to find your wife dead. Her throat is slashed open as is her belly. Your house is ransacked. It's obvious this ain't suicide.

What do you?

What would you do "henry quirk"?

Age wrote: ↑Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:57 am

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:00 pm RC,

After a mornin' of tradin' on the black & gray markets you come home to find your wife dead. Her throat is slashed open as is her belly. Your house is ransacked. It's obvious this ain't suicide.

What do you?

What would you do "henry quirk"?

Call the cops.

This is the framework...

A man belongs to himself.

A man's life, liberty, and property are his.

A man's life, liberty, or property are only forfeit, in part or whole, when he knowingly, willingly, without just cause, deprives another, in part or whole, of life, liberty, or property.

Your framework up-thread FAILS from START to FINISH.

Please explain how it fails from start to finish.

maybe I came in for a VERY LEGITIMATE reason.

Can you give me a legit reason why you would enter my home at 3am without permission?

I do NOT class ANY thing as "my own" for a "break in" to occur.

Is there anything that is yours?

Are you your own?