Philosophy Now Forum

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:23 pm I've just realised, I have no more questions to ask. I have only to ask Jesus.

That's exactly right.

...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am ...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Jesus said:
“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:31 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am ...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Jesus said:
“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

Easy enough to say regardless of who said it; only the performance is missing!

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:50 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:31 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am ...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Jesus said:
“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

Easy enough to say regardless of who said it; only the performance is missing!

Perhaps the performance that's missing isn't on God's side of the equation.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:20 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:50 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:31 am
Jesus said:
“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

Easy enough to say regardless of who said it; only the performance is missing!

Perhaps the performance that's missing isn't on God's side of the equation.

Where else would it be if I'm asking god to grant me what I seek but nothing ever happens as must be the case for millions upon millions of Jesus believers who have implored god without avail? When has this statement ever been true no-matter who you asked or implored...?

“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

I know it sounds profound and replete with mystery but in actuality....and I mean in actuality, it's a very trite, misleading and stupid statement. Nature and the universe don't work that way and they take precedence over the babblings of any 2000 year old Jewish preacher IF that is in fact what he said! Whatever is recorded is ONLY what others said he said. Regardless, whatever qualifies as biblical, no matter how ludicrous is always identified as revelation even as life asserts the opposite.

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am ...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Do you ever question the messenger of knowledge?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:00 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am ...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Do you ever question the messenger of knowledge?

Who or what would that be?

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:31 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:00 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:02 am ...only if there's a message to be found in total silence.

Do you ever question the messenger of knowledge?

Who or what would that be?

The messenger.

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:22 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:20 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:50 am

Easy enough to say regardless of who said it; only the performance is missing!

Perhaps the performance that's missing isn't on God's side of the equation.

Where else would it be......

Considering your chosen pseudonym:

Jas. 1:6-7 -- "But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that person ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways."

If you want to "ask" from the position of cynical doubt, of "dubiousness," you can be quite certain you'll get nothing. You're not even really asking, then: you're challenging, defying, demanding or commanding. You actually expect nothing, and expect not to see any answer if it arrives.

These postures do not work with God. One has to remain always mindful of Who is in control here.

...if I'm asking god to grant me what I seek...

It depends what you're seeking. There is no promise you get things you just wish from a selfish perspective, like cars or houses, or perfect health, or freedom from the various vicissitudes of life; there is a promise you get the knowledge of God, if you seek it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:00 pm

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:22 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:20 am
Perhaps the performance that's missing isn't on God's side of the equation.

Where else would it be......

Considering your chosen pseudonym:

Jas. 1:6-7 -- "But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that person ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord, being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways."

If you want to "ask" from the position of cynical doubt, of "dubiousness," you can be quite certain you'll get nothing. You're not even really asking, then: you're challenging, defying, demanding or commanding. You actually expect nothing, and expect not to see any answer if it arrives.

These postures do not work with God. One has to remain always mindful of Who is in control here.

...if I'm asking god to grant me what I seek...

It depends what you're seeking. There is no promise you get things you just wish from a selfish perspective, like cars or houses, or perfect health, or freedom from the various vicissitudes of life; there is a promise you get the knowledge of God, if you seek it.

My pseudonym has nothing to do with it. Stick to what I wrote and not my account name. As mentioned millions of faithful believers have petitioned god for something with total silence being the usual response. Why is that a true believer in Jesus hardly ever gets what they ask for even if the request is perfectly valid? How come they get served as much as any atheist would except that atheists wouldn't even bother to ask?

Jesus said:
“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

This has to be one of the most idiotic pieces of scripture ever written. Makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, also as mentioned, we don't know what Jesus actually said; we only know what others said he said. This alone can engender huge discrepancies as to what Jesus as a Jewish preacher in the hinterlands of Palestine really taught and thought.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:17 am

Dubious wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 9:31 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:00 am

Do you ever question the messenger of knowledge?

Who or what would that be?

The messenger.

What messenger?

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:09 am My pseudonym has nothing to do with it.

If you say you're not actually "dubious," then who am I to tell you otherwise. But the suggestion is your own.

Why is that a true believer in Jesus hardly ever gets what they ask for even if the request is perfectly valid?

You have no reason to suppose that's true...or even that you have any idea what a "true believer in Jesus" would ask. In fact, you know nothing about it at all, I'll bet. I can tell from how you talk.

For you write:

"This has to be one of the most idiotic pieces of scripture ever written."

No willingness to understand, no even basic politeness, just cynicism and spite. "For let not that man expect that he will receive anything from the Lord," writes James.

You've got everything you're going to get that way.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:09 amMy pseudonym has nothing to do with it.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:41 amIf you say you're not actually "dubious," then who am I to tell you otherwise. But the suggestion is your own.

I Dubious am not in the least dubious that there were no recording devices available 85 years or so after Christ’s death so how could Luke or any of the Evangelists know what Jesus actually spoke?

Does that clarify the distinction between D & d for you? The Jesus story started off as patchwork that ended up in a system which Jesus, as a Jew, would find thoroughly foreign to him.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:09 amWhy is that a true believer in Jesus hardly ever gets what they ask for even if the request is perfectly valid?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:41 amYou have no reason to suppose that's true...or even that you have any idea what a "true believer in Jesus" would ask. In fact, you know nothing about it at all, I'll bet. I can tell from how you talk.

Oh really! Are you theists so different from the rest of us in THIS world as to what you would ask god to grant you especially in extremis? You really haven’t got a clue as to how to reply to an argument (if one can call it that) which announces itself in absolutes without any correspondence to reality. I’m referring once again to this...

Jesus said:

“So I say to you, [a]ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks, it will be opened." (Lk. 11:9-10)

Unconditional statements which in this universe unconditionally fail to conform to any reality. Can you give a description as to why or in what sense it may yield a kind of truth which truth itself, as we understand it, cannot ratify. Are you even willing to try?

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:09 am"This has to be one of the most idiotic pieces of scripture ever written."

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:41 amNo willingness to understand, no even basic politeness, just cynicism and spite. "For let not that man expect that he will receive anything from the Lord," writes James.

Maybe I’d be more receptive if you offered better arguments than simply quotes or detouring around points you don’t want to address...which you’ve been accused of many times.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:41 amYou've got everything you're going to get that way.

...as compared to what? Believing in a two thousand year old tale in which superstition was often more in control then reason? The only thing the Jesus story is good for now are Hollywood movies and maintaining the Vatican as one of the richest institutions in the world.

Dubious wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:38 am ]Maybe I’d be more receptive if you offered better arguments than simply quotes or detouring around points you don’t want to address...

What I can tell you is what God has said. I can't make you listen. I'm not even going to try, because it's not in my power to open ears you've determined to keep deaf. As Christ Himself said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." What you do with what you hear is between you and God. And I don't answer for that.

You do.