Philosophy Now Forum

Age wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:17 am 'you', "immanuel can",

Sorry, Age.

You're still 15. "We adults" can't be bothered.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:22 pm Nick,

I don't know your perspective

That's right, like AJ, you don't.

True, but are you willing to admit the inadequacy of your perspective for the goal of philosophy or the love of wisdom?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:10 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:22 pm Nick,

I don't know your perspective

That's right, like AJ, you don't.

True, but are you willing to admit the inadequacy of your perspective for the goal of philosophy or the love of wisdom?

I'm not God: my perspective is finite, and Lord knows I'm wrong from time to time. But I'm also right from time to time. I see no reason why I must be humble and linger perpetually at the startin' gate. Hard won knowledge is meant to be used, not set on a shelf. And a man is not meant to sit in awe of all he doesn't know. Get up off your keister and hunt it down, I say.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:12 am

Lacewing wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:26 pm I'll let God say whether they are or aren't. But what they say is not what I find in the Bible. So you be the judge.

The Bible was written by primitive men long ago who had certain leanings.

Well, manifestly men held the quill, the stylus or the pen. The important question about that is, "was what they wrote down theirs"?

"But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture becomes a matter of someone’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." (2 Peter 1:20-21)

That's the claim the Bible makes about itself, and the same claim Jesus Christ made about the Scriptures in His day, adding that not one stroke of it would fail to be fulfilled. If you want to contradict Him, and present yourself as more knowledgeable about that, then I don't know what to say. Those that find you credible will believe you; those who find Him credible will not, I suppose.

A real philosophical question. Is biblical prophesy an eternal truth as Peter suggests? If so, all the horrors of Plato's Cave must have happened before and part of eternal recurrence. Jesus offers the way out of the cave through conscious witnessing of realty by turning towards the light as opposed to imaginary interpretations

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:36 pm Is biblical prophesy an eternal truth as Peter suggests?

That's the question everybody has to answer for themselves.

And they then live or die with that decision.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:40 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:47 am Immanuel is mistaken to confuse Biblical truth with eternal truth.

We'll see if that's true.

The problem with waiting to see, however, is obvious.

Immanuel, your reply confuses eternity with end of time or end of life maybe. Eternity is as ubiquitous as time, and as close to you as temporal change.

Do you maybe think eternal means the same as everlasting? They are not synonymous.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:40 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:47 am Immanuel is mistaken to confuse Biblical truth with eternal truth.

We'll see if that's true.

The problem with waiting to see, however, is obvious.

Immanuel, your reply confuses eternity with end of time or end of life maybe.

Maybe not. Factually not, in fact.

We will all stand and give an account to God. That's what the Bible says. Make of it what you will, you'll be there to find out.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:59 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:57 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:40 pm
We'll see if that's true.

The problem with waiting to see, however, is obvious.

Immanuel, your reply confuses eternity with end of time or end of life maybe.

Maybe not. Factually not, in fact.

We will all stand and give an account to God. That's what the Bible says. Make of it what you will, you'll be there to find out.

But we give an account of ourselves to God moment by moment. Morality is a component of every minute choice and every big choice.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:02 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:59 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:57 pm Immanuel, your reply confuses eternity with end of time or end of life maybe.

Maybe not. Factually not, in fact.

We will all stand and give an account to God. That's what the Bible says. Make of it what you will, you'll be there to find out.

But we give an account of ourselves to God moment by moment. Morality is a component of every minute choice and every big choice.

You haven't made your account yet. Nor have I. You won't make it until you see God.

But this much is true: the judgment we face will involve every minute and big choice we've ever made. So that much is right.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:33 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:10 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:22 pm Nick,



That's right, like AJ, you don't.

True, but are you willing to admit the inadequacy of your perspective for the goal of philosophy or the love of wisdom?

I'm not God: my perspective is finite, and Lord knows I'm wrong from time to time. But I'm also right from time to time. I see no reason why I must be humble and linger perpetually at the startin' gate. Hard won knowledge is meant to be used, not set on a shelf. And a man is not meant to sit in awe of all he doesn't know. Get up off your keister and hunt it down, I say.

What is your aim? For most it means serving what gives us our pleasures. This is how the world works. For some it is the need for truth and their aim is to experience conscious truth even at the expense of pleasures. Self serving Imagination provides the greatest pleasure but how many are willing to sacrifice what creates imaginary perspectives in the cause of truth?

The liberal mind is notorious for this. Illegal aliens are invading America's southern border and welcomed by the liberal mind. However when 50 are sent to wealthy Martha's Vineyard, the screams of protest are deafening. Not in my backyard. A liberal perspective is one thing but reacting to it is another. Who lives the truth? Jesus did which is why he had to be killed by those in a position of power.

A person must decide if their aim is pleasure or the experience of truth and pursue this goal. IMO the world needs more who are dedicated to truth. Christianity, not Christendom, is a path to truth.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:04 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:02 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:59 pm
Maybe not. Factually not, in fact.

We will all stand and give an account to God. That's what the Bible says. Make of it what you will, you'll be there to find out.

But we give an account of ourselves to God moment by moment. Morality is a component of every minute choice and every big choice.

You haven't made your account yet. Nor have I. You won't make it until you see God.

But this much is true: the judgment we face will involve every minute and big choice we've ever made. So that much is right.

If I were to die one moment from now, my experiences would cease to be my experiences at the moment of death . There is no immortal soul that is like a personality that survives death. Every thing turns into dust.

Your belief that God dips into time to judge people at some time and presumably some place, does no harm. My interest is to make sense of God, the Absolute, and the eternal now. The world badly needs a reasonable faith.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:13 pm If I were to die one moment from now, my experiences would cease to be my experiences at the moment of death . There is no immortal soul that is like a personality that survives death. Every thing turns into dust.

Ah, what a cheerful, hopeful view you have.

But no. What Scripture says is this:

For we will all appear before the judgment seat of God. For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord, to Me every knee will bow,
And every tongue will give praise to God.” (Romans 14:10-11, and quoting the Jewish prophet Isaiah, 45:22-25.)

So what you believe, and what the Bible insists is going to happen, are two different things.

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:02 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:59 pm We will all stand and give an account to God. That's what the Bible says. Make of it what you will, you'll be there to find out.

But we give an account of ourselves to God moment by moment. Morality is a component of every minute choice and every big choice.

Agreed. This is all happening real-time. That's why 'god'/spirituality can be realized/experienced in much different ways than Christian (and other religious) stories/ideas depict.

To me, it looks like I.C.'s declarations of "you'll see" are a way to save face. He won't have to face what others point out to him after we're all dead.

Lacewing wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:21 pm To me, it looks like I.C.'s declarations of "you'll see" are a way to save face.

Well, if that were true, you'd never know. You wouldn't be around to tell...and neither of us would have a "face" to save.

But if I'm right, we're both going to know.

So I'll see you when you know. Prepare the day.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:19 pm

Belinda wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:13 pm If I were to die one moment from now, my experiences would cease to be my experiences at the moment of death . There is no immortal soul that is like a personality that survives death. Every thing turns into dust.

Ah, what a cheerful, hopeful view you have.

But no. What Scripture says is this:

For we will all appear before the judgment seat of God. For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord, to Me every knee will bow,
And every tongue will give praise to God.” (Romans 14:10-11, and quoting the Jewish prophet Isaiah, 45:22-25.)

So what you believe, and what the Bible insists is going to happen, are two different things.

Paul was not stupid. He knew that he had to make the message of Jesus Christ intelligible to people who did not talk about abstract ideas.

Eternity is an abstract idea. JC is Cosmic Christ, unique and influential from eternity.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and

to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, it

now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

The beginning,the now, and the ever shall be , is deterministic in the sense that God has it all wrapped up ; immutable and timeless.