Philosophy Now Forum

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:13 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:04 pm All governments lie about a lot of things; they have to,...

In a totalitarians system? Absolutely. But Democracy depends on people having the right information.

I would think that democratically elected governments have more reason to lie than totalitarian ones; they are much more dependant on public opinion; if they want to get re-elected, that is.

IC wrote:

Harbal wrote:I'm sure the masks we were told to wear did next to nothing, but the social distancing was just plain common sense, and the prioritisation of vaccine development is exactly the response we would expect.

Not at all. When was the last time the government foisted a jab that was not a genuine vaccine on an entire population?

What on earth are you talking about?

What happened to "my body, my right"?

Having the vaccine was a completely free choice for most of us. And it was still a choice for those whose job required them to have it.

And what about all the personal freedoms and options we surrendered in the panic of bad information?

I didn't find it all that inconvenient, actually. You can't expect everything to just stay as normal in a crisis; what do you expect?

How about all the children who have been injected with something that the government knew they never needed to have?

I don't know what you are talking about; just your usual rubbish, I suppose.

IC wrote:

Harbal wrote: I really don't know what your game is in trying to promote the idea that there was something dark and sinister going on

It's a game called, "Telling people the truth."

Are you kidding? I have come to think you are one of those people who lie even when they don't need to. I imagine that explains your apparent sympathy for Donald Trump.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:37 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:36 pm Is that not what the Covid Vaccine was?

It's not the topic I want to talk about, Gary...it's just one illustration of the multitudinous lies of the mass media and our government. That point established, I have no further interest in hashing that out. But I could.

Fair enough. The media certainly engaged in propaganda during the Gulf Wars and Afghanistan. Do you agree?

But what was the nefarious intent behind the media cooperating with the CDC during a pandemic?

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:44 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:13 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:04 pm All governments lie about a lot of things; they have to,...

In a totalitarians system? Absolutely. But Democracy depends on people having the right information.

I would think that democratically elected governments have more reason to lie than totalitarian ones; they are much more dependant on public opinion; if they want to get re-elected, that is.

That's the unfortunate paradox: that elected politicians just tell us what we want to hear, not what the truth is.

Having the vaccine was a completely free choice for most of us.

A free choice, but you can't go out without it, can't travel, can't see your loved ones, can't have friends, can't eat in restaurants, can't have a job...not very free.

And what about all the personal freedoms and options we surrendered in the panic of bad information?

I didn't find it all that inconvenient, actually.

Convenience? That's what you think your privacy and personal security are about?

But since you say you don't trust me and think I'm just lying, I guess you can go and talk to somebody else. Maybe go read a newspaper...

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:36 pm
One: to test the gullibility of populations.

Two: to kill as many as possible (thru intubations, isolations, and vaccines that aren't vaccines).

Three: to secure deeper control over economies.

Oh well, in for a penny...

Four: to destroy the human individual; to reduce him to cog, to meat.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:53 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:44 pm

Having the vaccine was a completely free choice for most of us.

A free choice, but you can't go out without it,

Of course you can go out without it, and always could. I'm talking about here, in my country, I don't know about anywhere else.

can't travel

I seem to remember it being required for some air travel, but I don't know if that is still the case. Not really a problem for me; I hardly ever travel anywhere.

can't see your loved ones

I would have seen that as a bonus, were it true. My daughter came to my place just as often as usual, and I called at my son's house just as often as usual; it made absolutely no difference to that.

can't have friends

I suppose that would have been something, had I got any friends.

I know there was a period in which we weren't supposed to see friends, but I would probably have ignored that, and would probably have got away with it. But, as I said, I don't have friends, so it wasn't an issue.

can't eat in restaurants

It makes you wonder how people managed to survive without being to eat in restaurants for a month or two, doesn't it?

can't have a job

Not only did I have a job, but the government paid my wages for three months while I was on furlough. Thank you very much, government; I enjoyed every minute of it.

IC wrote:

Harbal wrote:I didn't find it all that inconvenient, actually.

Convenience? That's what you think your privacy and personal security are about?

I was aware of no threat to my privacy and personal security.

But since you say you don't trust me and think I'm just lying, I guess you can go and talk to somebody else. Maybe go read a newspaper...

I don't read newspapers; never have.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:54 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:36 pm
One: to test the gullibility of populations.

Two: to kill as many as possible (thru intubations, isolations, and vaccines that aren't vaccines).

Three: to secure deeper control over economies.

Oh well, in for a penny...

Four: to destroy the human individual; to reduce him to cog, to meat.

The CDC wanted to kill as many people as possible? I mean, the media definitely has its prejudices toward the home country in wars and toward the powerful when the powerful want to keep their power. I think that's been demonstrated pretty well by some independent journalists out there. But was Covid an attempt at manipulating the population for nefarious purposes? I mean, it seems to me that there were genuine concerns and a pandemic is an emergency situation that warrants some degree of unity in policy. Was the Covid pandemic overestimated, probably. Were mistakes made? Definitely. I'm just wondering if there was nefarious intent. I mean, the vaccine seems to have been successful in the record time it was produced, and is heralded as a remarkable feat.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:54 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:36 pm
One: to test the gullibility of populations.

Two: to kill as many as possible (thru intubations, isolations, and vaccines that aren't vaccines).

Three: to secure deeper control over economies.

Oh well, in for a penny...

Four: to destroy the human individual; to reduce him to cog, to meat.

Where do you live, henry? It sounds like a dystopian Hell hole!

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:26 pm I seem...

I count fourteen (14) clauses or sentences the focus of which is the pronoun, "I." So if it affects you, it's real; if it doesn't, it's not?

Okay. Have a nice day, I guess.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:32 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:26 pm I seem...

I count fourteen (14) clauses or sentences the focus of which is the pronoun, "I." So if it affects you, it's real; if it doesn't, it's not?

My perspective was the only one I felt qualified to talk about. But now that I think about it, mine is the only one I care about.

Okay. Have a nice day, I guess.

I sense you don't really mean that.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:28 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:54 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 6:36 pm
One: to test the gullibility of populations.

Two: to kill as many as possible (thru intubations, isolations, and vaccines that aren't vaccines).

Three: to secure deeper control over economies.

Oh well, in for a penny...

Four: to destroy the human individual; to reduce him to cog, to meat.

Where do you live, henry? It sounds like a dystopian Hell hole!

He seems to live in a dark room inside his head, it's full of horrors.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:43 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:32 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:26 pm I seem...

I count fourteen (14) clauses or sentences the focus of which is the pronoun, "I." So if it affects you, it's real; if it doesn't, it's not?

My perspective was the only one I felt qualified to talk about. But now that I think about it, mine is the only one I care about.

Okay. Have a nice day, I guess.

I sense you don't really mean that.

If there are others who are suffering, then it ought to be a concern to all of us if there's something we can do about it. I just think Henry goes a little overboard on the "we're meat" or "we're slaves" thing. I mean, there are legitimate concerns with respect to social justice. There are unjust wars out there and serious things to be concerned about, such as global climate conditions and pollution. However, sometimes it seems to me like the biggest problem some have with the media is when the media does acknowledge such problems.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:28 pmWhere do you live, henry? It sounds like a dystopian Hell hole!

I live in a quiet lil town in S. Louisiana. Quite nice.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:10 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:28 pmWhere do you live, henry? It sounds like a dystopian Hell hole!

I live in a quiet lil town in S. Louisiana. Quite nice.

That's great, henry; I'm so relieved you made it to safety.

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:27 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:10 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 7:28 pmWhere do you live, henry? It sounds like a dystopian Hell hole!

I live in a quiet lil town in S. Louisiana. Quite nice.

That's great, henry; I'm so relieved you made it to safety.

I haven't run to or away from anything.

Why must you mock me? You disagree with me (on everything): okay.

But why be pissy and disrespectful?

I try to be civil and then you (or Gary, or veg, or dub, or...) get ugly (which prompts me to be ugly [and I don't wanna do that anymore]).

Nuthin' productive happens. I walk away with a bad feeling toward you and you, well, what do you get out of grinding away at me or Mannie or AJ or Walker or...?

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:37 pm

Harbal wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:27 pm

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 8:10 pm

I live in a quiet lil town in S. Louisiana. Quite nice.

That's great, henry; I'm so relieved you made it to safety.

I haven't run to or away from anything.

Why must you mock me? You disagree with me (on everything): okay.

But why be pissy and disrespectful?

I didn't think you took me seriously enough to let it bother you, but if it does, I apologise and will try to behave myself.

Nuthin' productive happens. I walk away with a bad feeling toward you and you, well, what do you get out of grinding away at me or Mannie or AJ or Walker or...?

Those three are different; they don't seem to think the rest of the world has any right to not conform to what they would like it to be, and that they are entitled to use whatever dishonest manipulation they like to influence the opinions of others. I can't help it; it just works me up.